The Current 128K Phenomenon

[Unknown_K]

Kids don't spend $500 for a retro mac, people with money do (people with jobs, trust funds, other valuables they can sell, etc).

I bet most people here who have collected for many years have $5K+ of ebay value in their collection. So if prices of the stuff they want keeps going up so does the old boring things they own they can sell or trade to get what they want. Even people just starting out in the hobby can still find things in various places to get going cheaply.

While gold has some value in electronics, it is still just a lump of metal. A Picasso might be valued at $200M but it is just a painting, if other art collectors decide he is no longer popular the value of the painting will drop like a rock. Collectables are only as valuable as the next guy willing to buy it. You will see some model macs rise in "value" on ebay in the coming months while others drop, it happens all the time. Some stuff I snagged for nothing one month people fight over the next.

 

[Bunsen]

Exactly. For example, you can't give 6100s and early PCI Macs away at the moment.

By creating and maintaining the content on this site - which almost always lists high on any google searches for information on certain models, methods and accessories - we have directly contributed to the environment where these Macs are seen as desirable collectables.

 

[Mac128]

Well, it may not be the seller's fault, look at the bidding logs.

I believe that is the point I have been making from the start. I am NOT blaming the sellers. Dog Cow is not wrong that some auctions start pre-maturely inflated as initiated by the seller. However, the vast majority of these auctions are pushed ever higher by the buyers who have some kind of bottomless riches lining their pockets unlike most folks in the world these days.

By creating and maintaining the content on this site - we have directly contributed to the environment where these Macs are seen as desirable collectables.

Eh. Not so sure about that. If anything this site routinely points out how little value the 128K holds. Unless you are suggesting these kinds of threads about how much they are going for are self-perpetuating. If anything these articles should warn people that they are overpaying, and could easily correct the situation if they refused to pay such inflated fees. The way people go on about SE/30s around here should have caused those prices to skyrocket. But as long as I have been collecting, the 128K has routinely blown the SE/30's prices out of the water (currently SE/30s are going for around $100 US). So I'm not entirely sure how our forum contributes to the inflated prices people are willing to spend on some of these specific models.

There's also that small group of people who will spend whatever it takes to get a certain item.

Yes, yes. But why now? Why at a time when the world's economy is depressed and people of all walks are spending more conservatively? Why not two years ago when the economy was thriving at the top of the bubble?

 

[Unknown_K]

There are threads started here about SE/30 upgrades that might have moved people to dump quite a bit of money into their SE/30's. The thing is with forums you only find them (as a non member) when you are looking to get something or upgrade it and start to Google. To be honest most people take what they read on the net with a grain of salt anyway. A casual collector will not dump the same cash as some die hard Apple collector will if they bump into a forum thread on SE/30 greyscale mods. Also there are many more collectors of old macs (and computer in general) they there have been or ever will be members on this forum, not that many people who even read threads here bother to join, and many Apple collectors don't even bother to find this place.

 

[Paralel]

...No it isn't, and it hasn't been for many decades...

Bunsen is right about this. "Money", as the term is generally used in 1st world societies, is a fiat (soft) currency with no intrinsic value which is not backed by anything other than the faith people place in the government printing the money. Gold is a "hard" currency and a store of wealth, but no, it is not "money".

Gold coins created by the government complicate the matter because they have a fiat equivalent face value but they also have a "hard" value in terms of the quantity of gold from which they were made. As such, gold coins issued by a government actually have two separate values which are not linked to one another. In this case, gold, in the form of a coin issued by the government, is indeed "money". However, this is the only exception where gold is "money" in a society that issues fiat currency, as gold not issued by a government as an object with a fiat equivalent face value is not "money".

 

[Osgeld]

Yes, yes. But why now? Why at a time when the world's economy is depressed and people of all walks are spending more conservatively? Why not two years ago when the economy was thriving at the top of the bubble?

maybe people need a hobby and see a 500$ investment down memory "better times" lane a better time killer than the next smart phone?

crap some people paid thousands of dollars, 25 years later 200 for a junky one just to play with is not so bad ( I mean keep in mind I gave 2 bucks for my last 2 macs and tossed in an extra dollar so everyone could buy a coke from the vending machine so I don't justify it)

 

[beachycove]

I suspect it to be due to new users or "switchers" who have gotten the Apple bug like a new religion, who want a partner for their new MacBook/ iMac/ iWhatever, and who see one of the early Compacts as fitting that special need. So they've discovered that they have a Jobs-shaped void that only a 128k Mac can fill ... on that shelf in the corner.

It surely CAN'T be people who have "kept the faith" with Apple throughout, because they would surely know that those things just 'ain't worth the money.

 

[Mac128]

And then there's something like this: $470 for a working 128K in the original box with the original manuals and disks.

It's hard to say how high the highest bidder would have gone, but clearly every auction is a crap shoot between who is bidding at any given time, those who want something immediately, and what they have to spend.

I have NEVER seen a steal like this on eBay. Something like this would normally sell for over $1,200.

 

[Unknown_K]

I don't think there are that many people who will spend that kind of money on a 128K mac, sooner or later everyone who wants one will have one and the prices will go down unless new collectors spring up.

 

[techknight]

that's like the color classic. it was hard to get one of those machines for awhile, granted this IS a 128K thread, but i just had to mention the CC. now that people think its "rare" or whatever the terms they use these days, more and more are showing up.

 

[Mac128]

I don't think there are that many people who will spend that kind of money on a 128K mac, sooner or later everyone who wants one will have one and the prices will go down unless new collectors spring up.

An interesting theory. Obviously true at some point, but nevertheless, I have never seen a working, complete, boxed 128K with such an early serial number sell for so little. There are no more complete boxed systems currently for sale on eBay so it's hard to test your theory at the moment. Will definitely be watching to see what the other 128K systems continue to sell for. If unboxed systems continue to sell in the $300-400 range as they have been, that shows more of a price-of-opportunity. I have seen items sell for much less than I was prepared to pay simply because I could not get access to eBay when the auction ended, or they did not turn up in my searches, as improperly listed items often do.

 

[solidpro]

And then there's something like this: $470 for a working 128K in the original box with the original manuals and disks.

That'd be me!

I won it. The analog board is fried, which I found out after, but still took it because I have spares and can repair it.

 

[Mac128]

Good for you! Yeah, that is a sweet setup man. You got a complete kit. Just out of curiosity, how much higher would you have bid? I almost bid, but decided I would never bid enough. Live and learn, but glad to know it went to a member who wants it, rather than an eBay shark who would have done little more than clean it up and list it as a BIN for $1,000.

 

[Paralel]

Hopefully you got a partial refund from the guy for the fried board.

I did when I bought my classic on eBay, advertised as fully functional, the logic board was shot and the SCSI port was covered in rust.

 

[JDW]

Hopefully you got a partial refund from the guy for the fried board.

This is an EBAY seller we're talking about here. In the subconscious mind of the seller, solidpro already got that "refund": $1,000 (seller's desired selling price) - $470 (actually selling price) = $530 fried board discount

It is true that the auction in question says "Good Working Condition." In fact it says that more than once in the listing. But when we buyers obtain what we think is a good deal, we often tell ourselves, "well it's such a good deal, and since I have parts to repair it anyway, no use making a stink about it." The seller then gets off the hook and goes back to subtle sales deception. This is how EBAY works. I don't like it. But it's been my experience (as a buyer and EBAY window-shopper) for the last several years. Mac128 earlier commented about this being "a steal." And on some level, yes, the word "steal" is appropriate here. There's always a catch.

 

[Paralel]

If there is a major deviation from the description of the product I always ask for a partial refund, with the amount asked relative to the amount of deviation from the original listing. I have about a 50% success rate. The other 50% are resolved through a PayPal dispute and I win maybe 50% of those, so overall I am about 75% successful with regard to partial refunds for deceptive listings.

If the seller and I come to a mutual agreement regarding the amount of the refund I always leave positive feedback discussing satisfaction with regard to handling of the issue. If I have to take it to a dispute I always leave negative feedback to let everyone else know the seller is a fraud.

I can't imagine just accepting being gyped by some con artist.

 

[Osgeld]

When buying off of ebay I only look at "buy it now, lowest price + shipping"

then pick apart every detail, ask questions if necessary, you can filter it out pretty quick

 

[JDW]

I can't imagine just accepting being gyped by some con artist.

Considering that "gyped" is EBAY's middle name, it's hard to avoid it. I've made some purchases outside EBAY before, but there are just so many vintage Mac items on EBAY that I sadly keep my eyes glued to it. I hardly every buy anything these days on EBAY, especially since USPS killed off the only economical way to ship complete systems to me outside the USA -- Ocean. But I have been ripped off before and nothing I did helped get me a discount, more less my money back. Thankfully my worst experience on EBAY was with a low cost item, but I had to pay more in shipping (to Japan via AIR) than the item was worth. Here's the story...

A couple years ago I bought an Apple mouse on EBAY. I wanted the same transparent/black kind for use with my G4 Cube. My previous mouse had a cable that frayed just as the cable exits the back of the mouse. I searched Yahoo Auctions here in Japan, but prices were too high for my taste and despite my knowing Japanese, I wanted the transaction to be 100% in my native tongue of English. My searching ultimately led me where it always does, back to EBAY. I of course searched for a reasonable price (not necessarily the "lowest price"), from a seller who had the guts to sell outside the beloved US of A (yes, sellers who discriminate against Americans living outside The Motherland piss me off). His willingness to ship "worldwide" immediately garnered my respect, even though I didn't even know him. Funny how that works, especially when issues like blatant discrimination upsets you so. Anyway, I spoke with that seller more than once prior to purchase. I explained why I needed a mouse replacement because I did not want a mouse that would have the same problem as the mouse I was trying to replace -- a damaged cable. The seller assured me the mouse would not have a frayed cable like my old mouse. Moreover, he told me it would be the best mouse of all the mice had had for sale. He had a good feedback rating, so I felt safe about a purchase from him.

I won the auction and a week later the mouse arrived. The box was tiny and not well packed, but it contained a handwritten letter from the seller. The letter repeated that this mouse was the best he had and he knew I would be happy with it. I felt greatly relieved. Two seconds later I noticed the mouse had the exact same frayed cable as my defective mouse.

I feel like this was more than mere deception. It was almost like the seller patiently listened to my story, then looked for the worst mouse he had -- one that had the same problem as I reported. In light of what he told me prior to the sale, and especially in light of his handwritten letter, what other conclusion could one arrive at? There are other stories as well, but I spare you.

There is a Satan, folks. He sells Apple-branded trinkets that you and I like to buy from time to time.

All said, I somewhat feel like a masochist. Because despite knowing how treacherous many vendors are on EBAY, I continue to go their to get my vintage Mac fix. On some level, I feel very ashamed. May you fair better than I have.

 

[jwmcfarlin]

I don't have much but a "me too" on the scratching my head on the 128K pricing nonsense.

I'm one of the "recent new collectors" that has been mentioned, and as such I'll shed some light on at least one data point of the new collector motivation and some observations fresh to the hobby.

Why: Nostalgia, desire for a low-distraction minimalist productivity environment, interest in setting up a safe(er) computing environment for my children. I think these are legit motivations.

What:

1. 7 eMate300s for $50 ($7.15 each). These were a good deal, but they need new cell repacks (which I have done in the garage). The seller didn't try and gull me.

2. LaserWriter Select 360. $90 ($60 of it shipping) I'm not satisfied--pending some work on my side. The seller had posted a photo of a printed page and though the unit is in good cosmetic condition and very complete in the original box, it just sits there after the power light blinks a while. Laserwriter utility says toner cartridge, so I have one on the way but I'm skeptical and think it might be a fuser lamp malf or even worse caps (I am going to wait to start digging into it).

3. Apple Keyboard II and Square Mouse for $25. These were in great condition and while the price is probably a little high, I don't have the time to go yard saling.

4. "Vintage" Mac IIci. $40. This one was a bit of a disappointment. Pretty sure the seller was a "recycler" who buys huge lots and disposes of it with as little work on his part as possible. The hard drive had been cut out with a pair of dykes but otherwise it works and the NUBUS cards made it worth it--this would have been easily identifiable but wasn't noted and I hadn't asked (lesson learned).

5. Powerbook 1400c. $100. This was an almost like-new 1400c, so in my mind the price was worth it. But, the "64MB RAM" was half virtual memory so was there a little shadyness going on? I could drive myself crazy going down all those rabbit holes.

6. Mac IIci with M1212 Monitor and 170MB external SCSI HD. $211. I spent the extra money because the photos verified that it would get to the desktop, I could tell that the internal HD was 80MB, there was a network card, cache card, and a video card, I could use the ext. HD to move files, there was probably some decent software on it, and both banks of RAM were filled with at least 1MB SIMMs, plus a network card. The seller packaged it like a nincompoop with boxes they got from the post office as padding and I was lucky it arrived in working order. But it is a working system and I hooked it up to a nice LCD and am satisfied (though I didn't get lucky with the RAM--only 8MB).

7. Powerbook 180. $35. This one was in great shape but not top of the line options. No complaints.

8. Powerbook 180. $28. This one was in good shape, minor cosmetic flaws but it had high RAM and the largest HD. No complaints.

Observations: Sometimes it's a little difficult to understand what is being presented. $600 for what I bought--is that a lot, is that not a lot? Was I an ignoramus? Did I unwittingly help drive prices up? Did I bore you? There's just so much to consider if you're thoughtful.

One thing that I will offer is that impatience, desire, and idle cash drives impulse purchases on eBay. A high BIN is like throwing a bit of bait out there. Some will bite, some won't, so what? There are probably sellers out there whose only reason for setting high BINs is that they don't even know how worthless what they have is, and they're only referencing some other seller's listing as a guide for what they should sell their "rare, vintage 128K MAC" for.

Anyway, definitely food for thought.

Best,

John

 

[Paralel]

...One thing that I will offer is that impatience, desire, and idle cash drives impulse purchases on eBay...

I believe this is an essential truth.