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PowerBook 150 - screens all destroyed?!

techgeek

Active member
My belief is that Apple must have used the cheapest LCD screens they can put their hands on. Nothing else can explain why all my PC laptops are OK - I have about 15 of them, a few Toshibas, Gateway 2000, IBM Thinkpads and NEC. My oldest is the NEC Ultralight, which is a 286 machine from about 1989 and its screen looks great. In fact it was in the same drawer as the Duo 230.

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
Dang, that eBay100 pic finally got me to pull one of my PartsBoo100s off the shelf. Looks like two rounds crazed its bulletproof glass. Might have been like that when I got it though as it was pretty beat up, but still  .  .  . :/

But the LCD in PB100 on the AppleDisplayUnit is fine, as is screen of the one I recently got from another member. The LCD from my original PB100 looks brand new in its heavy duty ZipLoc bag home of the last thirteen or fourteen years. The 2300c screen I'd squeezed into its lid is fine as is the screen on my main 2300c machine in the Dock.

Looks like I'll need to go through the entire collection. It's about time I did a head count anyway.

 
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Franklinstein

Well-known member
My belief is that Apple must have used the cheapest LCD screens they can put their hands on. Nothing else can explain why all my PC laptops are OK - I have about 15 of them, a few Toshibas, Gateway 2000, IBM Thinkpads and NEC. My oldest is the NEC Ultralight, which is a 286 machine from about 1989 and its screen looks great. In fact it was in the same drawer as the Duo 230.


I'm 90% sure that Apple didn't skimp on the screens. Indeed, they often had displays (on the high-end models, at least) that were the envy of the portable computer crowd at the time. Plus it's not like knockoffs from FlyByNightVendor.com or whatever were common in the '90s: take apart an Apple display and the LCD manufacturer will likely be Sharp, Toshiba, Sony, Casio, Philips, or IBM. Many of the same panels reside in contemporary PC models, especially when display sizes standardized around the 10-12" era (1997ish).

Anyway the worst of Apple's LCD quality issues didn't start to crop up until LG or Samsung displays started to appear (Defective 13.3" on a PDQ? Pink Pismo? Pink or dead Apple Cinema Display? Guess who made them).

I've really only seen severely damaged LCDs like this overseas. I saw an ADC Apple Studio Display with bubbles in diagonal streaks; I assumed it was from improper storage or cleaning products (my aunt ruined a 50" LCD TV in a similar fashion by cleaning it with ammonia or some other harsh glass cleaner). Years ago I bought a PowerBook 520 and it looked like the display had been dipped in acid, as warped, bubbled, and rusty as it was. I recently bought a PowerBook 160 with a similar screen but the damage was near the battery, which had bulged; I assumed that battery fumes had got to it, but the keyboard and the rest of the case are fine, so I dunno.

 

techgeek

Active member
My belief is that Apple must have used the cheapest LCD screens they can put their hands on. Nothing else can explain why all my PC laptops are OK - I have about 15 of them, a few Toshibas, Gateway 2000, IBM Thinkpads and NEC. My oldest is the NEC Ultralight, which is a 286 machine from about 1989 and its screen looks great. In fact it was in the same drawer as the Duo 230.
I meant NEC Ultralite.

 

galgot

Well-known member
There is a Duo 280 on sale on the bay , seller from Italy. It has the same film screen problem... Seems these films are reaching their ends nowadays... :/

 

techgeek

Active member
There is a Duo 280 on sale on the bay , seller from Italy. It has the same film screen problem... Seems these films are reaching their ends nowadays... :/
I found the listing! You are absolutely correct - it seems that it suffered from the exact same type of screen polarizer damage as both of mine. Here is the picture that I downloaded from eBay. I am done collecting laptops.

duo280c.jpg

 
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galgot

Well-known member
What would nice to determine is why it happens to some before some others…
Mines have none of these problems so far . I live in a not so dry area , humidity is quite high along the curves of the Seine around here. + I have some spare parts stored in a closed place in the yard, no heat there. And still none of them have these...

 

PB145B

Well-known member
I am done collecting laptops.
Not me! I love vintage laptops and I will do whatever I have to to fix them. I have already started working on getting the film replaced on my old Compaq Contura LCD. Wasn’t too hard to get the film off but getting that old rotten adhesive off is quite difficult! I’ve found that acetone softens it up pretty well. This *shouldn't* hurt the panel underneath since it’s made out of glass but we’ll see...........

 

techgeek

Active member
Not me! I love vintage laptops and I will do whatever I have to to fix them. I have already started working on getting the film replaced on my old Compaq Contura LCD. Wasn’t too hard to get the film off but getting that old rotten adhesive off is quite difficult! I’ve found that acetone softens it up pretty well. This *shouldn't* hurt the panel underneath since it’s made out of glass but we’ll see...........
I hope you succeed - let us know how it went! ... take pictures on each step and post them here, so that those of us who are more adventurous can follow in your footsteps.

 

PB145B

Well-known member
Sure! Here are some pictures of before and after peeling the film off. I haven’t really done much more to it yet but I did put some acetone on there Was able to scrape a small portion of the adhesive off. Not sure when I’ll have time to mess with it some more but when I do I’ll definitely take pictures and post them.

E52D05AD-1C2E-44C3-87BE-EB58A31440BA.jpeg

2CABCB90-EB9F-4AE5-857B-123AC0030AA7.jpeg

8609B81C-AB07-44CA-A012-4572A10147C7.jpeg

 

AlpineRaven

Well-known member
Since this topic has mentioned - I am seeing more and more laptops of that era - Theres quite a few over in Japan as well. mine ones hasn't done that yet.

Cheers

AP

 

digitalrampage

Well-known member
Sure! Here are some pictures of before and after peeling the film off. I haven’t really done much more to it yet but I did put some acetone on there Was able to scrape a small portion of the adhesive off. Not sure when I’ll have time to mess with it some more but when I do I’ll definitely take pictures and post them.

View attachment 21349
What does it look like, its very hard to tell from your photos of what the issue is, is one of the plastic layers just shattered? 

 

PB145B

Well-known member
What does it look like, its very hard to tell from your photos of what the issue is, is one of the plastic layers just shattered? 
No it’s not shattered at all. To me it kinda looks like the adhesive has crystallized or something. It’s very strange and I have never seen anything quite like it before. It also had a very strong chemical smell when I pulled it off! So I would suggest to anyone else trying this to wear a mask before peeling the film off as there’s no telling what toxic things could be emitting from that old adhesive. But the actual glass underneath looked great when I scraped of a little patch of it off.

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
My collection of powerbooks was kept in two different rooms with our dehumidifier running all the time, because of a health condition. Since I am a chemist, it never even crossed my mind to clean the screens with solvents, so this can't be the reason for the excessive damage. Since last time I checked, the PB520 and Duo 2300c screens got even worse. The bright spot on the Duo 230 screen is not a flash light reflection, it is a polarizer damage. Any ideas of what might been causing the polarizer deterioration?
From the LCD replacement hunt thread:

I'm wondering if plasticizer leaching within the close confines of a closed PowerBook over many years may be the culprit? If they're worried about the effects of leaching on drugs and foods for human consumption stored in containers within their expiration dates, multiple years of it concerns me. Dunno, but it seems to me it wouldn't take much to eat away at thin film plastics and adhesives? The variety of storage situations across environments and continents has made this my primary suspect.

As a chemist, hat do you make of that notion, techgeek?

 

Alex

Well-known member
No it’s not shattered at all. To me it kinda looks like the adhesive has crystallized or something. It’s very strange and I have never seen anything quite like it before. It also had a very strong chemical smell when I pulled it off! So I would suggest to anyone else trying this to wear a mask before peeling the film off as there’s no telling what toxic things could be emitting from that old adhesive. But the actual glass underneath looked great when I scraped of a little patch of it off.
I wonder if the smell was a chemical reaction that caused a gas to develop that was suddenly released. Some chemical reaction or deterioration must have developed. Have you tried to clean a small corner with isopropyl alcohol to see if it clears, do only a tiny spot to check.

 

PB145B

Well-known member
Isopropyl alcohol didn’t help at all, but acetone softened it up really good. As I mentioned above the panel underneath is glass, so acetone *shouldn’t* hurt it.

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
In the sign business, I've had to remove every adhesive know to man < /hyperbole > from almost any surface imaginable. Luckily, glass is probably the easiest one to clean! Here are a few examples of cleaning agents I've used.

YMMV!!!!!!!!!!

Vinegar is a great glass cleaner and is good for dissolving some types of adhesives used for stickers.

If the adhesive is oil based, turpentine is a great cleaning agent. If you opt for less expensive "mineral spirits" be careful about what's in it. It's a generic term for just about anything they wanna throw in there. Benzene (lighter fluid) has been used in it. Use only outdoors.

That said, Benzine/Lighter Fluid is an awesome cleaning agent. Definitely use it outdoors, preferably in a light breeze!

You could try good ole WD-40, dunno what's in that offhand, but it's mostly volitiles that flash off for Water Displacement. It's not all that much of a lubricant unless it's in light duty, low cycle, low pressure applications. Now WD-40's a brand name and they make plenty great lubricants for all sorts of uses. The volatiles in the classic multi-use product make it a great cleaning agent leaving very little residue.

As a next to last resort, I'd try Goof-Off. It's made specifically for removal of all kinds of cruddy glue glop. That stuff smells horrible!

Last resort would be oven cleaner, it's fabulous for removing vinyl adhesives from the baked enamel surfaces of vehicles without damage.

A single edge razor blade won't harm the glass, especially with any of the above or just plain water lubricating its surface. Use it on a low angle as in a "scraper" but use your hand carefully as the holder for better control. GREAT for corralling glop into a pile, onto itself alone and better with a thin piece of cardboard used as a backstop.

YMMV!!!!!!!!!!

 

PB145B

Well-known member
In the sign business, I've had to remove every adhesive know to man < /hyperbole > from almost any surface imaginable. Luckily, glass is probably the easiest one to clean! Here are a few examples of cleaning agents I've used.

YMMV!!!!!!!!!!

Vinegar is a great glass cleaner and is good for dissolving some types of adhesives used for stickers.

If the adhesive is oil based, turpentine is a great cleaning agent. If you opt for less expensive "mineral spirits" be careful about what's in it. It's a generic term for just about anything they wanna throw in there. Benzene (lighter fluid) has been used in it. Use only outdoors.

That said, Benzine/Lighter Fluid is an awesome cleaning agent. Definitely use it outdoors, preferably in a light breeze!

You could try good ole WD-40, dunno what's in that offhand, but it's mostly volitiles that flash off for Water Displacement. It's not all that much of a lubricant unless it's in light duty, low cycle, low pressure applications. Now WD-40's a brand name and they make plenty great lubricants for all sorts of uses. The volatiles in the classic multi-use product make it a great cleaning agent leaving very little residue.

As a next to last resort, I'd try Goof-Off. It's made specifically for removal of all kinds of cruddy glue glop. That stuff smells horrible!

Last resort would be oven cleaner, it's fabulous for removing vinyl adhesives from the baked enamel surfaces of vehicles without damage.

A single edge razor blade won't harm the glass, especially with any of the above or just plain water lubricating its surface. Use it on a low angle as in a "scraper" but use your hand carefully as the holder for better control. GREAT for corralling glop into a pile, onto itself alone and better with a thin piece of cardboard used as a backstop.

YMMV!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks for the suggestions! I appreciate it!

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
You're welcome. Easy-Off oven cleaner started out for use as a painted lettering remover, then segued into vinyl letter adhesive removal. Don't breathe those fumes either. I'd use a cartridge respirator for working with any of the above for any extended period of time except the salad dressing. But I'd use rubber, latex or nitrile gloves for that one too. Who wants hands that smell like a salad for two days?  :mellow:

 
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