Outbound 125

[olePigeon]

Oh.  Hmm.  Try formatting the CF card so it's exactly the same size as the original HDD.  Maybe it's looking for a size.

 

[Paralel]

On those old IDE system, it's usually a size issue.

It's too bad it isn't a PC, there are a couple of old DOS programs that allow one to write directly to CMOS/EEPROM with custom settings for drives that aren't supported by old, limited systems.

 

[unity]

Just updating this since I am working on my Outbound at this time and the drive finally failed. The original drives in these were made my PrairieTek, the first company to ever produce small 2.5" drives. And they are long gone now. You can find the same drives in other portable PCs if you need a spare. Sadly those machines are often collectables too, so the pricing can be well over $100. Anyway, based on all the reading I have done these drives follow IDE protocol but the pinouts may not. There was even a meeting held at one point to being all the makers together to standardize things. But its not clear if that incompatibility indulged the connector itself, I suspect it did because one of the issue mentioned what that early portables using this new 2.5" drive technology where essential designed around the drive to be used. That caused an issue where a product could be held up if there was a lack of drives available.

"An invitation-only meeting hosted by Sun Microsystems in early 1990 raised industry ire. The subject matter was Sun's concern about the lack of cohesive industry direction and physical incompatibility between drives being offered (PrairieTek, Conner Peripherals, JVC). In attendance were AMP, Areal Technology, Conner Peripherals, Intellistor, JVC, Maxtor, Miniscribe, PrairieTek, Rodime, Seagate, and Zenith."

https://d1yx3ys82bpsa0.cloudfront.net/groups/ds-prarietek-220-20121211.pdf

I still have no located any PrairieTek pinout diagrams. They may be long lost. Of course none of this wold be an issue if the citizen floppy drive used was standard. But like all things Outbound, it is not. I do not have an external Outbound drive to use but it said there is an intermediate board made by Outbound that sat between the laptop and floppy drive. So in my case, I am doubly-stuck right now.

 

[3lectr1cPPC]

I’ve heard a (completely unverified) story about those PrairieTek drives. Here’s a quote from an old revision of the Wikipedia page on the company that’s since been removed:

Unlike many manufacturers of the time, PrairieTek did not rest the drive heads on the disks, but instead used reverse EMF to park the drives on a spreader bar. While the concept promised to reduce the amount of wear on the drive heads and the disk, in practical application the heads came off the spreader bar too fast, and before the disk had come up to speed (creating an air cushion), which led to the heads impacting the disks and knocking loose magnetic media, shortening the life of the drive to months or weeks.

I first saw this rumor in a YouTube comment. Investigation led me to a YouTube video that quite literally just stole the article and text-to-speeched over it. It would be interesting to open the drive up and see if that’s true or not (as if it is true, that’s almost certainly why yours is dead). If it isn’t true, maybe the drive can be fixed.

 

[unity]

When I got the 125, it booted fine and I backed up the data using the SCSI emulator. Then it sat for many years and like I said, it's dead. The damage described seems like something that happens with use. I did open the drive and have not noticed any particulate matter floating around to indicate head damage or platter damage. Usually when a head goes, there is black dust or debris all over. I wont discount that I have head damage though. And the platters look okay for the most part. Of course damage can be so minute it can be hard to see. Or for that matter there could be some damage on the lower platter. Its a two platter drive so its hard to inspect without total disassembly. Which maybe for giggles I will do, its not working anyway.

 

[aplmak]

I’m sad to hear about your unit. Are you sure it’s your drive? I mean is is powering up ok and your just getting the blinking ? Question mark? There must be an ssd solution for that. I mean if I can find MFM RLL emulator drives I’m sure you can find. I thought if I remember correct it’s actually an IDE Pata 2.5 drive… but it’s been too long I can’t remember. Don’t give up!

 

[unity]

Yeah, its the drive for sure. There may be a solution, but as far as I can find no one has found one yet. The interface is not standard IDE or anything of the sorta seemingly. Some have tried IDE to CF interfaces with no luck. Really the issue is that the PrairieTek drive is the first 2.5" to market so it seems like they may have their own sorta interface pin-out that is unique before standardization, as I mentioned above. Or it could be Outbound that had their own sorta interface design and the drives were made to fit that. I am going to pin out power and go from there. Really the reason I am working on it though is to get it onto the market. So I am only going to invest so much into it anyway before it has to go.

 

[cheesestraws]

Really the reason I am working on it though is to get it onto the market. So I am only going to invest so much into it anyway before it has to go

Hopefully not rude to say, but I will absolutely be in the queue for this when you do decide to put it on the market...

 

[unity]

I'll private message you and give you the details on it.

 

[wymtb]

Please expect the pinout is the standard 3.5" drive pinout + power connector even if it is a 2.5" drive. Not sure if they are checking drive manufacturer or capacity or what else. I was not able to get a IDE to CF or SD adapter working. Only other drive beside the original one (mine is broken too) is a PraireTek Praire 242 which uses the same geometry but is already using the later 2.5" IDE connector. So maybe if we could simulate the geometry and other parts like the manufacturer I would hope a replacement could be used. But I have not found any ready to run solution and probably there is no too big demand for such a device.

 

[unity]

I installed an 80MB IBM drive and it would not even power up properly unless I pulled power from the main connector. I *could* have a power supply issue. But the PT always spun up and the head operated fine, just did to work with occasional noises that pointed to a head crash crash although I saw no damage. Anyway... I did get one modern IDE drive to power up. Not sure of the size, probably gigs. It power up, stays running and the head seeks just fine. Its a very slim drive. If I pull the data cable, the drive will power up then after a while idle down. If I put the data cable on upside down, it will not even spin up. So it "seems" like it is willing to work.

The other issue is I am not sure how formatting the drive would even work. When I boot in host mode, the Plus sees the silicone drive and I can format it. I can even copy and OS to it and have a crazy fast Plus. But the Plus does not see the drive at all, not in SCSI probe, HDSC setup or Drive setup. That included my faulty PT drive. Again, could be for any number of other reasons why nothing is seen. But it is not a SCSI drive in the first place and I don't think the older Apple drive software knows. So I am not sure how formatting would work unless the Outbound is emulating SCSI internally - possible since they do emulate eSCSI for "target disk mode". But there is zero info in the manual on setting up a new hard drive in case one fails.

But since I last messaged cheesestraws about these issues, I had a sudden "duh" moment and realized something. When I was testing the silicone drive booting the Plus, the Outbound was in parts. So I did not boot the Outbound from its own silicone drive independently of the Plus. Which I know can be done. It was often down for those with no floppy drive because then you would not tie up the floppy drive and could truly use it. Again, keep in mind I have no floppy drive at all either internal/external. So when I have time, I want to boot form the silicone drive and see if I can go into SCSI emulsion mode. I think one can, even with the silicone drive. Unless that really was only a feature for the hard drive based models. But if I can I want to see if a host Mac, more modern than a Plus, can see the another drive installed. If so, then maybe it can be formatted and get an OS installed. And with a more Modern Mac and drive setup software that can even format IDE drives.

I am looking for a PT drive, though, since that would be the ideal candidate.

That concludes my random thoughts for today.