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MacOS 8.6 on "Sawtooth" G4
- Thread starter almeath
- Start date
Got the Mac OS ROM file, been really busy at work (where the Sawtooth project is underway), so I dropped it into a 1st gen slot-loading iMac DV at home (also a special-case machine), and it booted right up latest firmware and all, so I do not expect any problems with the Sawtooth.
In truth I would really like to get the 8.6 working on Mystic (or Gigabit Ethernet) as these boards are much more plentiful to me than Sawtooth. I wonder if open-firmware patching the machine model # would be sufficient...
In truth I would really like to get the 8.6 working on Mystic (or Gigabit Ethernet) as these boards are much more plentiful to me than Sawtooth. I wonder if open-firmware patching the machine model # would be sufficient...
Just an update, I used the 8.6 (international) G4 disc on a SawTooth, no issues. I did have some problems previously on a drive that had been formatted by a newer Drive Setup (9.2.2 genre), so it might be important to "update" the HD with the drivers from the 8.6 drive setup disc... Also the 8.6 works great with both an older Firmware and after the latest 4.2.8f1 updater.
I did try setting a Mystic's openfirmware with " PowerMac3,1" encode-string " model", and it didn't seem to enable 8.6 bootability, the 8.6 partition does not show up when doing an Option boot. I'd love to try other OpenFirmware suggestions to get this classic OS going if anybody has any. In my "free time", I'll probably try pulling the flash chip off a dead SawTooth board and dropping it onto a Mystic, but that may be awhile...
and FWIW, a QS 800 cpu is chugging right along after overclock the FSB to 133 (and cut off the 2nd IDE header, AND dremel the case, AND add +12v to 4th post on CPU
... The trick is to SPDTOOL or equiv. 7.5ns PC133 RAM to say that it is CAS-3 PC100 (technically this results in CAS2 PC133 timings) system just can't handle the additional loading of multiple ram modules otherwise. Unknown whether L3 cache working (8,9 report L2 cache error), but the machine is pretty zippy under 10.4...
I did try setting a Mystic's openfirmware with " PowerMac3,1" encode-string " model", and it didn't seem to enable 8.6 bootability, the 8.6 partition does not show up when doing an Option boot. I'd love to try other OpenFirmware suggestions to get this classic OS going if anybody has any. In my "free time", I'll probably try pulling the flash chip off a dead SawTooth board and dropping it onto a Mystic, but that may be awhile...
and FWIW, a QS 800 cpu is chugging right along after overclock the FSB to 133 (and cut off the 2nd IDE header, AND dremel the case, AND add +12v to 4th post on CPU
... The trick is to SPDTOOL or equiv. 7.5ns PC133 RAM to say that it is CAS-3 PC100 (technically this results in CAS2 PC133 timings) system just can't handle the additional loading of multiple ram modules otherwise. Unknown whether L3 cache working (8,9 report L2 cache error), but the machine is pretty zippy under 10.4...... I should mention that Sawtooth G4 shipped with PowerPC G4 7410 7400series CPU and that OS 8.6 doesn't like upgraded 7445 7450 7455 or whatever (it shows up as a bootable choice, but then you get no mouse cursor and it freezes on a gray screen). I'm using a 7455 right now with the following openfirmware nvramrc patch... this differs from all the other posted nvram patches for OS9 because... well... OS8.6 wants an older processor. This is using the latest firmware bootrom. As maybe mentioned above the only other issue you might have than the Mac OS ROM 2.5 would be "updating" the disk driver using the Drive Setup that shipped with OS8, but I haven't tested that highly.
nvedit
" /cpus/@0" find-package if drop " /cpus/@0" find-device 800c1103 encode-int " cpu-version" property then
device-end
c
nvstore
setenv use-nvramrc? true
reset-all
nvedit
" /cpus/@0" find-package if drop " /cpus/@0" find-device 800c1103 encode-int " cpu-version" property then
device-end
c
nvstore
setenv use-nvramrc? true
reset-all
Thanks for the firmware patch. I can't wait to try it out on my 7455 upgraded sawtooth. However, I have never done any open firmware editing before and I was wondering if you could post more detailed step by step instructions on how to apply your patch. For example, do you press the return key at the end of every line? In particular, do you press the return key at the end of the second line, then type device-end and press the return key again or can lines 2 and 3 be combined into a single line?
Note- I've updated the patch slightly based on some research... the Sawtooth 8.6 only seems to like 7400 and 7410 processor models. Reading some opensource PPC code online lead me to believe some 7410s might be a little different then other 74xxs, and the closest match to my 7455 (a ver 3) seems to be a 7410 1.01 (see http://www.opensource.apple.com/source/xnu/xnu-344/osfmk/ppc/start.s ). OS 9.04 additionally seems to boot with the 7450's, where as 8.6 doesn't. Additionally, as a side note, if "Enable Processor Cycling" is checked in Energy Saver, the mouse pointer freezes when the machine goes "idle". Thus far I have been unable to get the machine to wake from sleep, regardless of the cpu-version, and various settings of CPU Director 2.01 and the latest (paid) XLR8 software, with and without energy saver installed, blah blah...
#define PROCESSOR_VERSION_7400 0x000C....
#define PROCESSOR_VERSION_7410 0x800C....
#define PROCESSOR_VERSION_7450 0x8000....
#define PROCESSOR_VERSION_7455 0x8001....
For all you ever wanted to know about "nvramrc"... http://www.softpanorama.org/Solaris/Startup_and_shutdown/OpenBoot/nvedit_line_editor.shtml
esentially, get into "open firmware" [command/apple][option][O][F]
to reset to defaults first (if you've screwed something up...) reset-nvram [return] and set-defaults [return], then
nvedit [return] to create a script. this is a little hard to work with, the up and down arrow keys move around in the buffer, [ctrl][L] shows you the script, see the above link. then type
dev /cpus/@0 000c1101 encode-int " cpu-version" property device-end [return]
dev mac-io/ata-4 0 0 " lba-48" property device-end [return]
[ctrl][C] (to exit the editor)
nvstore [return] (to save it)
setenv use-nvramrc? true [return] (to activate it.)
reset-all [return] (to reboot and go!)
I'm _really_ concerned about getting the sleep to work... I've stripped the sawtooth down to just the video card it came with (AGP ATI Rage). It goes to sleep, but when I click the mouse or keyboard and it wakes up, I get nothing- Black screen, optical mouse doesn't illuminate... bummer.
#define PROCESSOR_VERSION_7400 0x000C....
#define PROCESSOR_VERSION_7410 0x800C....
#define PROCESSOR_VERSION_7450 0x8000....
#define PROCESSOR_VERSION_7455 0x8001....
For all you ever wanted to know about "nvramrc"... http://www.softpanorama.org/Solaris/Startup_and_shutdown/OpenBoot/nvedit_line_editor.shtml
esentially, get into "open firmware" [command/apple][option][O][F]
to reset to defaults first (if you've screwed something up...) reset-nvram [return] and set-defaults [return], then
nvedit [return] to create a script. this is a little hard to work with, the up and down arrow keys move around in the buffer, [ctrl][L] shows you the script, see the above link. then type
dev /cpus/@0 000c1101 encode-int " cpu-version" property device-end [return]
dev mac-io/ata-4 0 0 " lba-48" property device-end [return]
[ctrl][C] (to exit the editor)
nvstore [return] (to save it)
setenv use-nvramrc? true [return] (to activate it.)
reset-all [return] (to reboot and go!)
I'm _really_ concerned about getting the sleep to work... I've stripped the sawtooth down to just the video card it came with (AGP ATI Rage). It goes to sleep, but when I click the mouse or keyboard and it wakes up, I get nothing- Black screen, optical mouse doesn't illuminate... bummer.
Thanks, that's exactly the detail I wanted.
I notice you have added a new line enabling the lba-48 property. Can this line be considered optional and be omitted from the patch if you are not using a hard drive larger than 128gb. In fact, is this line even being recognized under OS 9 and earlier. This page http://4thcode.blogspot.com/2007/12/using-128-gib-or-larger-ata-hard-drives.html seems to suggest enabling the lba-48 property in open firmware has no effect under OS 9.
With regards to your sleep problem, it may not be just a OS 8.6 issue. I am having similiar problems with my 7455 upgrade running 9.2.2. I am not having much luck finding any fixes doing Google searches. Most seem to think it is a hardware problem with the upgrade card where the cache chips are being run faster than spec. Later versions of the upgrades switched to faster rated chips which apparantly fixed the sleep problem. However, my upgrade card does in fact seem to use the later faster spec cache chips and it still has sleep issues.
If the sleep problem is in fact being caused by OS 8.6, I wonder if it is related to the CPU Plugins file in the Multiprocessing folder. This is the same file that must be removed when you use a 7447/7448 based upgrade to prevent crashes (though with those upgrades it was to prevent a crash at startup not for sleep problems). I wonder if this older CPU Plugins file is not compatible with the newer cpu.
I notice you have added a new line enabling the lba-48 property. Can this line be considered optional and be omitted from the patch if you are not using a hard drive larger than 128gb. In fact, is this line even being recognized under OS 9 and earlier. This page http://4thcode.blogspot.com/2007/12/using-128-gib-or-larger-ata-hard-drives.html seems to suggest enabling the lba-48 property in open firmware has no effect under OS 9.
With regards to your sleep problem, it may not be just a OS 8.6 issue. I am having similiar problems with my 7455 upgrade running 9.2.2. I am not having much luck finding any fixes doing Google searches. Most seem to think it is a hardware problem with the upgrade card where the cache chips are being run faster than spec. Later versions of the upgrades switched to faster rated chips which apparantly fixed the sleep problem. However, my upgrade card does in fact seem to use the later faster spec cache chips and it still has sleep issues.
If the sleep problem is in fact being caused by OS 8.6, I wonder if it is related to the CPU Plugins file in the Multiprocessing folder. This is the same file that must be removed when you use a 7447/7448 based upgrade to prevent crashes (though with those upgrades it was to prevent a crash at startup not for sleep problems). I wonder if this older CPU Plugins file is not compatible with the newer cpu.
There is also a similiar discussion here http://www.cubeowner.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12512 at the cubeowner forum about how to manually edit the open firmware to allow OS 9 booting with a 7447/7448 upgrade. This may be useful for further refining of the sawtooth open firmware patch.
of course lba-48 is optional, I included it as much as an example of how to set multiple variables as anything else. It does seem to work on my sawtooth, (Uni North Rev 3 btw), but I haven't really tested it. I really doubt open firmware can boot anything from it. It works great on a DA board I have. The DA, btw, runs a 7447 @ 1.5g (FSB is overclocked to 150MHz) w/ 1.5gig RAM, under the absolute latest 9.2.2 - MDD edition. In addition to running a PowerLogix OS9 cpu-version=80010201 script, I absolutely had to remove the CPU PlugIns to get it to not lock-up on boot. At one point I tried (I think) every version that MultiProcessing thing - I have a lot of OS CDs, 9.01, 9.02, 9.03, 9.04, 9.1, 9.2, 9.2.1, etc... the only version that did not make the 9.2.2 lock was the 9.0 versions, and they didn't change the sleep behavior at all (identical to not having one), so I don't think it was actually loaded.
I really don't think the wake-from-sleep issue is overclocked L3 cache, if there is a speed issue or something of the sort, it would be a change in the L3 cache from SDR to DDR, and I have adjusted the L3 cache speed inside XLR8 MachSpeed (and the spread spectrum and the dynamic frequency thing) to no effect. I'll go confirm the L3 cache thing RIGHT NOW by replacing my OWC Mercury Extreme 1GHz - 2MB L3 SDR with a QuickSilver 800MHz with no L3, see if anything changes.
I would give anything to get sleep working. Really. My 7 year old desperately wants to sleep his hopped up hybrid DA/QuickSilver OS9 retro gaming system. Sleep worked fine with a 933MHz QuickSilver chip (2MB DDR L3), but even with the 128mb GeForce 4Ti card (OttoMatic at 1440x1050 is epic!), we still had some lag in a couple Super Nintendo Games (Kirby, StarFox). Most of that is due to poor performance of the emulator, but I can't change that... of course that was before I upped the FSB to 150, so maybe things would be better now...
anyway, I digress...
I really don't think the wake-from-sleep issue is overclocked L3 cache, if there is a speed issue or something of the sort, it would be a change in the L3 cache from SDR to DDR, and I have adjusted the L3 cache speed inside XLR8 MachSpeed (and the spread spectrum and the dynamic frequency thing) to no effect. I'll go confirm the L3 cache thing RIGHT NOW by replacing my OWC Mercury Extreme 1GHz - 2MB L3 SDR with a QuickSilver 800MHz with no L3, see if anything changes.
I would give anything to get sleep working. Really. My 7 year old desperately wants to sleep his hopped up hybrid DA/QuickSilver OS9 retro gaming system. Sleep worked fine with a 933MHz QuickSilver chip (2MB DDR L3), but even with the 128mb GeForce 4Ti card (OttoMatic at 1440x1050 is epic!), we still had some lag in a couple Super Nintendo Games (Kirby, StarFox). Most of that is due to poor performance of the emulator, but I can't change that... of course that was before I upped the FSB to 150, so maybe things would be better now...
anyway, I digress...
I'll continue the digression. Regarding your 7447 and the CPU Plugins problem. I have found this Japanese retailer that from the rough Google English translation seems to say they have custom updated/edited CPU Plugin file that fixes the 9.2.2 crash problem:
http://www.vintagecomp.com/sell/Sonnet/Encore7447.html
Here is a direct link to the file:
http://www.vintagecomp.com/sell/Sonnet/updatedCPU.sit
I believe it will also work with 7448 upgrades as well. I don't own a 7447 upgrade so I have never been able to test out this file to see if does what I think the translation seems to be saying.
End of digression. Now let's get back to 8.6 on the Sawtooth.
http://www.vintagecomp.com/sell/Sonnet/Encore7447.html
Here is a direct link to the file:
http://www.vintagecomp.com/sell/Sonnet/updatedCPU.sit
I believe it will also work with 7448 upgrades as well. I don't own a 7447 upgrade so I have never been able to test out this file to see if does what I think the translation seems to be saying.
End of digression. Now let's get back to 8.6 on the Sawtooth.
omfg, Sonnet- the "it just works people", I will totally check that out when my kids are awake... they get a little annoyed when I sneak into their rooms at night to use their computers. Thankyou, I was going to go looking for that.
I plugged a 800MHz QS2002 (no L3 cache) up, and with either of the CPU-versions listed above, with or without "Energy Saver", XLR8 MachSpeed, or CPU director (either normal or with both L2 and L3 cache disabled) I get the same result - the machine sleeps but never wakes up (fans and drive spin up, but no display and optical mouse doesn't light up). bummer. Well, at least for me that rules out L3 as the culprit. I'll give Sonnet a go later, and then maybe try and see if I can pull something from os9.04 or 9.1 back to make it work.
Iirc, I was able to wake the machine when I had an unsupported USB2 or flashed PC video card In it - On wakeup I'd get the message "couldn't power off the pci bus because not supported by card..." or something. Wasn't really much of a sleep mode because all the fans stayed on.
I plugged a 800MHz QS2002 (no L3 cache) up, and with either of the CPU-versions listed above, with or without "Energy Saver", XLR8 MachSpeed, or CPU director (either normal or with both L2 and L3 cache disabled) I get the same result - the machine sleeps but never wakes up (fans and drive spin up, but no display and optical mouse doesn't light up). bummer. Well, at least for me that rules out L3 as the culprit. I'll give Sonnet a go later, and then maybe try and see if I can pull something from os9.04 or 9.1 back to make it work.
Iirc, I was able to wake the machine when I had an unsupported USB2 or flashed PC video card In it - On wakeup I'd get the message "couldn't power off the pci bus because not supported by card..." or something. Wasn't really much of a sleep mode because all the fans stayed on.
