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SCSI2SD and spindown

finkmac

NORTHERN TELECOM
I just got a few PowerBook 500 series power adapters, so I'm finally able to use the 540c and test the 2.5" SCSI2SD I received a few months ago.

It works fine for the most part, however…

Anything that involves the disk spinning down causes the machine to freeze. This could be the default automatic spindown (5 minutes of inactivity I think), manual spindown (via the control strip), automatic sleep, or manual sleep.

I'm guessing this isn't an issue on older PowerBooks, as they don't spin down the disk when sleeping from what I can tell.

Is there a configuration option I should be settings here?

 

beachycove

Well-known member
Sorry, but older PBs' HDs do spin down when sleeping, and can be set to spin down as a power saving measure (e.g., when using a RAM disk, which was a common strategy back in the day). The power savings settings on 030 machines were, if anything, overall superior to those available on the 040 machines.

 

finkmac

NORTHERN TELECOM
You sure about that? My PowerBook 180's hard disk turns on when the power adapter is plugged in, and it stays on when I put it to sleep.

 

Cory5412

Daring Pioneer of the Future
Staff member
Just pulled out my 180 today. It's running 7.6.1. Mine spins down the hard disk when I go to Special -> Sleep, and also when I go to the control strip and tell it to spin down the hard disk.

Unsure why one wouldn't. Perhaps running too generic a 7.1 install, or something of that nature?

Is there some reason an SCSI2SD might not respect that command particular a 520/540, but any machine?

 

Bunsen

Admin-Witchfinder-General
You should be able to set the machine to not spin down the disk when it goes to sleep, I think.

 

finkmac

NORTHERN TELECOM
Well, I'm not sure what the issue with the PowerBook 180 is, but the solution on the SCSI2SD is to enable the "Unit Attention" option in the configuration utility. 

Now the 540c works smoothly!

 

FacnyFreddy

Well-known member
How big is the SD card you have in your 540c? just curious if you had to carve it up or if the version of System 7 you are using can see the whole volume.

 

finkmac

NORTHERN TELECOM
As a quick update, the issue actually isn't fixed. It only sleeps properly if the SCSI2SD is connected to external power via the USB connector… Which means it isn't actually "spinning down"

As for my microSD setup, I'm using a 4GB card partitioned into two, as 7.1.1 doesn't seem to support volumes larger than ~3GB.

 

Rajel

Well-known member
As a quick update, the issue actually isn't fixed. It only sleeps properly if the SCSI2SD is connected to external power via the USB connector… Which means it isn't actually "spinning down"

As for my microSD setup, I'm using a 4GB card partitioned into two, as 7.1.1 doesn't seem to support volumes larger than ~3GB.
Good note, thanks. I'd imagine it still draws far less power than an in-use SCSI drive 

I'm surprised 7.1.x even supports drives that large, the 80MB in my PB160 seems practically cavernous.

 

rickrob

Well-known member
I just got a few PowerBook 500 series power adapters, so I'm finally able to use the 540c and test the 2.5" SCSI2SD I received a few months ago.

It works fine for the most part, however…

Anything that involves the disk spinning down causes the machine to freeze. This could be the default automatic spindown (5 minutes of inactivity I think), manual spindown (via the control strip), automatic sleep, or manual sleep.

I'm guessing this isn't an issue on older PowerBooks, as they don't spin down the disk when sleeping from what I can tell.

Is there a configuration option I should be settings here?

I have the same issue in my PB540C with a SCSI2SD -- It freezes when the disk spins down. Have you found a solution to the issue on yours?

 

Rajel

Well-known member
As a quick update, the issue actually isn't fixed. It only sleeps properly if the SCSI2SD is connected to external power via the USB connector… Which means it isn't actually "spinning down"

As for my microSD setup, I'm using a 4GB card partitioned into two, as 7.1.1 doesn't seem to support volumes larger than ~3GB.
Follow-up question, do you think it would "spin-down" properly when powered on the USB from an internal source on the Powerbook?

 

Rajel

Well-known member
I have ideas in my head to mitigate the issue, will need to confer with an engineer buddy.

 

avadondragon

Well-known member
You could get 5V from the ADB port internally.  Or maybe use a 5V USB step down board to hook up to the internal battery charging connector.

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Rajel

Well-known member
That's essentially what I'm thinking, although I have a feeling that you'll need power for a couple of seconds after the system goes to sleep. A large capacitor might buffer enough power to help the drive "spin down" after the system sleeps.

 

Rajel

Well-known member
The question I have is if the powerbook is actually sending a spin-down command and supplying power, or if it's just cutting power to the drive and letting the drive controller park the head?
Generally, the recommendation with SSD is never to "spin down". The card itself takes a second to boot, and the OS may be freezing due to a failed response while the SCSI2SD card comes up. This would explain why it still works fine while connected to USB - the card doesn't power off, and can respond to the powerbook in a timely manner

Power usage of the card is likely incredibly minimal compared to the original HDD and other system components, the easiest and probably safest workaround is to disable drive sleep entirely.

 

finkmac

NORTHERN TELECOM
Hoo boy. Been procrastinating on replying to this thread for a bit… apologies for breaking the "quote-etiquette"!

I have the same issue in my PB540C with a SCSI2SD -- It freezes when the disk spins down. Have you found a solution to the issue on yours?
 Apart from disabling spindown in the energy saver panel and never putting it to sleep, nope :-/

Follow-up question, do you think it would "spin-down" properly when powered on the USB from an internal source on the Powerbook?
 I don't think the SCSI2SD knows what "spindown" is, when connected via USB it just keeps working.

That's essentially what I'm thinking, although I have a feeling that you'll need power for a couple of seconds after the system goes to sleep. A large capacitor might buffer enough power to help the drive "spin down" after the system sleeps.
 Again, I don't think it understands "spindown".

The question I have is if the powerbook is actually sending a spin-down command and supplying power, or if it's just cutting power to the drive and letting the drive controller park the head?

Generally, the recommendation with SSD is never to "spin down". The card itself takes a second to boot, and the OS may be freezing due to a failed response while the SCSI2SD card comes up. This would explain why it still works fine while connected to USB - the card doesn't power off, and can respond to the powerbook in a timely manner

Power usage of the card is likely incredibly minimal compared to the original HDD and other system components, the easiest and probably safest workaround is to disable drive sleep entirely.
I'm pretty sure the PowerBook tells the drive to "park the heads and turn off", but the SCSI2SD doesn't seem to understand what that means.

Yes, disabling drive sleep is easiest… but it still means the system sleep is broken. Not being able to enter full sleep mode is a major problem in my case.

I have contacted Michael McMaster regarding to this problem, but he says he's unable to debug/fix the issues as he doesn't have a SCSI 68k PowerBook.

 
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