Radius Pivot on SE/30

[9166188]

Hi there!

I recently bought an SE/30 with a Radius Pivot card inside.   I don't have a Radius monitor but I have a Apple High Resolution RGB Display.

So I connect them together and System 7.5.3 seems to recognize the external monitor because the Control Panel shows a second monitor.

But nothing comes out from the external Apple RGB monitor, just black screen.

So I tried to download SoftPivot3.2.1 from MacGarden because I read about it in another thread and dumped three files into the system folder.

But that does not work either.   Nothing happens and the external monitor remains black throughout from reboot.

There are threads about this on this forum, but the setup seems slightly different.

Can anyone has experience on this tell me what I am missing?

Many thanks!

 

[BadGoldEagle]

Hey there

Nice card you got here. I have the same. Been struggling to make it work properly too.

My card does the same thing. Technically you don't need soft pivot for the card to work (it won't pivot though)

My guess is that the ROM on the SE/30 cards aren't compatible with SSW 7.5+...

... and now that you think of it why should it work with it in the first place?

ROM V1 (your card is ROM V1, mine too) has a copyright date of 1990 (System 7 wasn't even released back then!!) and System 7.5 came out in late '94. So I think the ROM is too outdated for it to work properly. I have yet to see another ROM (other than version 1) on an SE/30 Pivot. Someone got it working but I think he's running 7.1.

papa_november had a similar issue with his IIci running 7.5.5 and his Nubus Pivot. He fixed it by updating the ROM to the final version: 2.6

The good thing is that the ROMs are cross-compatible (he got his from a IIsi pivot)

He sent me a couple of weeks ago a dump of his ROM and right now, someone here on this forum is burning it to a new ROM chip for me.

Here's the ROM file. I've uploaded it to the Mac Garden. Radius Pivot (632-0070).zip

I hope it'll fix my problem. If it does I'll get back to you. That is, if you haven't solved your problem already. 

PS: I also own the IIsi version of the Pivot card. It works on my SE/30 (the PDS slot is electronically compatible). The ROM on that card is v2.6. So it "should" work.

 

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Great reply, now I can just say "get a more capable display!" 640x480 is a waste of that card's capabilities.

 

[BadGoldEagle]

The colour pivot tops out @ 832x624.

I wish I had a WORKING Apple monitor to go with it. It does work though with a VGA adapter on some LCDs (I know that from the IIsi Pivot test). IF I manage to get this card working, the 14" Apple CRT is the next thing to fix on my list.

I was about to add that if you want to make sure your card works, try to boot it up with system 6.0.8 or 7.0.1.

I can't try it myself unfortunately as I only have one working SE/30 board and my HD is a bit temperamental. But there's no reason why it shouldn't work. Out of the 4 people (now 5) I know who own an SE/30 Pivot, none have managed to get it working on 7.5+. One succeeded with 7.1 (albeit with some issues). All SE/30 cards have the same ROM revision.

I doubt ALL cards are bad. It must be the ROM.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Yep, bumping the second display by that same 60% over the "HighRes'" 640x480 in either direction is a thing of beauty sitting next to that 512x342 Periscope. Definitely go for a 16" Display if you can find one, adding it almost quadruples the total extended desktop of the SE/30.

7.5+ is a stretch for any VidCard with 1990© printed on ROM or PCB. I see in pics posted of these cards on either side of the pond today that there's provision for a VRAM upgrade. Has anyone tried implementing it?

edit: just checked the Radius drawer again again the Pivot/SE/30 is still AWOL. :-/ The NuBus version had its full complement of ZIP(?) VRAM soldered in production, I found the SIMM to fill my Pivot/LC's VRAM expansion socket, but don't recall the test results. This should be interesting

I also noticed in mattislind's trading post pic that there's provision for a second crystal complementing the conveniently socketed stock can on the SE/30 version. Has anyone tried to coax 60Hz VGA resolutions out of this thing yet?

 

[BadGoldEagle]

Okay. Found another ROM version: 1.3 from 1991 (should be System 7.0 compatible). Not sure it can work on 7.5+

And WHAT the hell is that adapter? Is it active or passive? I hope it's passive and that we won't need it!

 

[joethezombie]

Whoa, that is interesting. I don't see how that adapter could fit in an SE/30, so I wonder if it lets you use SE/30 cards in a IIsi?

 

[BadGoldEagle]

Technically, the cards are interchangeable. The IIsi riser card allows you to fit the card horizontally instead of vertically.

I see in pics posted of these cards on either side of the pond today that there's provision for a VRAM upgrade. Has anyone tried implementing it?

I've always wondered if that was possible. That's funny, I was talking about the possibility of adding more VRAM to the SE/30 Pivot with bibilit last Sunday.

It "should" allow at least thousands of colours on the external display instead of the stock 256.

But we're getting carried away here.   We need to fix our cards first!! Then and only then we can start to mod them 

 

[apm]

I've got a Color Pivot SE/30 card -- similar form factor but different layout, and all VRAM soldered. It's got ROM v2.4. I can dump and share the image if anyone wants it.

 

[techknight]

I think it has been posted? Maybe it was 2.3

 

[9166188]

Thanks so much for so much useful stuff!   It's great to know you are on this and it seems solvable. 

I have a system 6.x HD but I don't remember it can recognize my external monitor.   I will try it with SoftPivot3.2.1 installed to see whether that works.

As for the Pivot ROM image, suppose it is now on my SE/30 HD, what should I do to refresh the Radius ROM onboard?

"PS: I also own the IIsi version of the Pivot card. It works on my SE/30 (the PDS slot is electronically compatible). The ROM on that card is v2.6. So it "should" work."

I happen to a IIsi machine ordered, does it mean my SE/30's Pivot card can be used on a IIsi with an PDS/NuBus adaptor card?

 

[Themk]

No, you do not use a Nubus adaptor, as the SE/30 card is already PDS. I think what you are looking for its a right angle adapter, that lets you plug the card in horizontally rather than vertically. Alternatively, you can simply plug the card straight into the PDS slot on the IIsi, but it will stick straight up.

 

[9166188]

Good to know I can plug the SE/30 card it into an IIsi without an adaptor.   Will try when my IIsi arrives (assuming it is a working machine).   Thanks!

Back to my previous reply.   I have tried SoftPivot3.2.1 on System 6.0.8 and it gives me the same error "... not supported by this version of Soft Pivot".  I got the same thing on System 7.5



So, perhaps ROM version is really the culprit here.   So the question for me is how to update the hardware ROM given the image files.

Thanks ALL!

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Exactly, it's the Radius version of the passive SuperMac Risers we've been using for several different hacks, analogous to Apple's own passive "PDS Adapter."

If you're not using a Pivot Monitor, there's no need whatsoever for any drivers for any Radius Video card for the NuBus architecture so long as you don't have another Radius card installed.. Everything you need is in the Declaration ROM on the card for basic function at any available resolution. RadiusWare is a unified control panel setup for coordinating functions between cards and their replacement for the functions of the Monitors Control Panel, which is sufficient for your purposes.

 

[BadGoldEagle]

"... not supported by this version of Soft Pivot". 

ahem. I get exactly the same error message. So does LCGuy. Does anyone else start to see a pattern?

Again, I do not think SoftPivot is needed to operate the SE/30 Pivot. In fact I think SoftPivot isn't the right software at all...

Look what I have found... (from the same ad as before)



If you look more closely, you'll notice it's not a SoftPivot disk but it's written RadiusWare on it!

So I think the SoftPivot software should be used on Macs with a built-in display port (DA-15, not the later "better" DP) and RadiusWare should be used on the SE/30. 

But which RadiusWare disk should we use then?

from the knight - tech archive:

Radius Video CardsThunder 30/1152 - 30/1600 - 30/1920

ThunderColor 30/1152 - 30/1600 - 30/1920

ThunderPower 30/1152 - 30/1600 - 30/1920

Precision Color 8/1600 - 24/1600

The above Radius cards use RadiusWare PCI for driver support, here are several versions of that software:

RadiusWare PCI v1.1

RadiusWare PCI v1.3

RadiusWare PCI v3.3

RadiusWare User Manual

These Radius cards do not use RadiusWare:

Tempest 2D/3D

Thunder 3D / Thunder TX 1152

These Radius cards use RadiusWare NuBus for driver support:

PrecisionColor 8xj - 24x - 24xp - 24xk - Pro 24x

RadiusWare NuBus v3.2.5

No mention of the PDS variants...

This page mentions the SE/30.

And here's where you can still download RadiusWare 3.4.1.

IIRC I already tried that software, it didn't work. But you should definitely give it a go. Who knows?

 

[BadGoldEagle]

I've got a Color Pivot SE/30 card -- similar form factor but different layout, and all VRAM soldered. It's got ROM v2.4. I can dump and share the image if anyone wants it.

Hi apm. I'd be interested to know which version of the system software works with your card and what types of drivers are installed.

 

[9166188]

The link is down.   But I find a 1994 version of RadiuWare

- - -

RadiusWare 3.2.5 Software

INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS & SUPPLEMENTARY INFORMATION

September 1994

- - -

Radius recommends that you operate with System version 7.1 or greater. However, Radius software will operate properly with Macintosh System 6.0.7 or greater. 

If you are running System 6.0.7 or 6.0.8 on a Mac II, IIx, IIcx, or SE/30, Radius recommends that you use Apple's 32-Bit QuickDraw version 1.2 or later.  32-Bit QuickDraw can be installed into the System Folder of earlier CPUs by running the Apple Installer program on your Macintosh System Startup disk.

The Radius software contained on this disk is compatible with:  

•  Macintosh II family

  •  Centris series

  •  Quadra series

•  Duo 210, 230, 250, & 270 with DuoDock and DuoDock II

•  Power Macintosh systems. 

- - -

• Dynamic Desktop, version 3.2.5, provides "on-the-fly" resolution switching without going into the Monitors control panel.  This file replaces older files named RadiusWare and Radius Resolutions. The installer will delete these older files if they exist.

• QuickColor, version 3.2.5, provides Radius' custom Quickdraw acceleration.

• Soft Precision Color 3.1.1 provides multi-resolution support for Built-in Video on Quadra and Centris family systems using System 7.1.1 or earlier.  Due to the inclusion of Apple's new Display Manager, this extension is no longer needed with System 7.1.2 or later.

• Radius PowerSaver 1.2.1 provides power saving features for energy-saving compliant displays.

- - -

I installed them on SE/30 System 7.5.  It doesn't have a SoftPivot module, but all the same, no breakthrough.    

Like Stalker suggested, "Everything you need is in the Declaration ROM on the card for basic function at any available resolution."

How do u update the ROM on the card?  

Then, it still quite surprises me that products designed for Apple of that era cannot work straight away.  After all, SE/30 was quite a major product line to be well supported. :O  

 

[Themk]

How do u update the ROM on the card?

You don't update the ROM on the card, as it's mask ROM and can not be reprogrammed. You will need to buy a PROM, and program it with a new ROM image in order to "update" the ROM.

Then, it still quite surprises me that products designed for Apple of that era cannot work straight away. After all, SE/30 was quite a major product line to be well supported. :O

It was a major product, but the SE/30 was introduced in very early 1989, and discontinued in 1991. System 7.1 came out in 1991, and 7.5 didn't come out until 1994. A lot changed between System 6 and the later System 7s. While it is unfortunate that the card's firmware doesn't work with System 7, remember that this firmware was introduced in 1990. It is analogous to using Windows 7 video drivers on Windows 10- It MAY work, but it is NOT guaranteed to work, as the drivers were not designed with that system in mind. It is much the same way here.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

I wish I could find my SE/30 Pivot Card, I'm almost certain it worked under System 7 in the IIsi, however I'm beginning to think it was an SE/30 Color Pivot card, so that's no help I guess.