-
Updated 2023-07-12: Hello, Guest! Welcome back, and be sure to check out this follow-up post about our outage a week or so ago.
PowerBook 160 - common problems to look for?
- Thread starter ben68
- Start date
ben68
Well-known member
I'm one capacitor away from testing - or maybe two. The 22uF is still in the mail.
So I'm checking my work with an Ohm meter, and I find one of the 3.3uF capacitors hardly registers - even when I dig in.
Then I switched polarity on the probes, and BAM - continuity! Is that common for these ceramics to be DOA? - also, it's bad in the wrong direction
Bad capacitors:
Using the twist method of removal:
So I'm checking my work with an Ohm meter, and I find one of the 3.3uF capacitors hardly registers - even when I dig in.
Then I switched polarity on the probes, and BAM - continuity! Is that common for these ceramics to be DOA? - also, it's bad in the wrong direction
Bad capacitors:
Using the twist method of removal:
Last edited by a moderator:
Rajel
Well-known member
Clean those pads *thoroughly* with isopropyl and solder wick. It'll smell horrible, like rotten fish, but it'll make everything go much more smoothly.
Also, continuity tests don't work like you think on capacitors - their purpose is basically to temporarily store a charge, and continuity tests work by applying a small charge and seeing if the other end picks it up.
Initially, a capacitor will fail continuity because it's storing that charge, and then it'll succeed as the charge is released. Checking for resistance is also not useful, as these have a low series resistance - almost like it's not there.
Your capacitors are probably just fine.
Also, continuity tests don't work like you think on capacitors - their purpose is basically to temporarily store a charge, and continuity tests work by applying a small charge and seeing if the other end picks it up.
Initially, a capacitor will fail continuity because it's storing that charge, and then it'll succeed as the charge is released. Checking for resistance is also not useful, as these have a low series resistance - almost like it's not there.
Your capacitors are probably just fine.
Last edited by a moderator:
ben68
Well-known member
Yes! that's what it was.
All the other capacitors show continuity both ways - it's just the one...
ben68
Well-known member
So I have it together, and it boots up to a distorted screen - split horizontally and I can see distorted icons but the top menu is entirely obfuscated. I'm not sure where to go from here.
I had hoped this would be a trial run for an SE/30 capacitor replacement.
My confidence is pretty low right now.
I had hoped this would be a trial run for an SE/30 capacitor replacement.
My confidence is pretty low right now.
Last edited by a moderator:
Rajel
Well-known member
Something isn't quite right then. Maybe that one cap was actually bad, although the chances of that are usually small.
Did you take pictures of the caps post-replacement? I do remember having an issue with half the screen being non-functional after I did mine, but IIRC it was just a cable connection being wonky.
SE/30 recap should actually be a LOT easier, you're dealing with pretty small SMD components on a rather fragile substrate when recapping the 160 screen - there's a bunch of stuff that can go wrong if you're not *really* careful.
I'd say the partial success you've got now (there are actually screen contents!) would probably show enough skill/understanding for an SE/30.
Question, how long have you been soldering on PCBs, and what tools do you use for electronics rework? Do you use flux?
Good tools can really make all the difference. I started to get OK with a crappy Weller adjustable iron, but when I moved up to an old Hakko soldering station my repair game shot up as the better tools just made everything I was struggling with *so* much easier.
Did you take pictures of the caps post-replacement? I do remember having an issue with half the screen being non-functional after I did mine, but IIRC it was just a cable connection being wonky.
SE/30 recap should actually be a LOT easier, you're dealing with pretty small SMD components on a rather fragile substrate when recapping the 160 screen - there's a bunch of stuff that can go wrong if you're not *really* careful.
I'd say the partial success you've got now (there are actually screen contents!) would probably show enough skill/understanding for an SE/30.
Question, how long have you been soldering on PCBs, and what tools do you use for electronics rework? Do you use flux?
Good tools can really make all the difference. I started to get OK with a crappy Weller adjustable iron, but when I moved up to an old Hakko soldering station my repair game shot up as the better tools just made everything I was struggling with *so* much easier.
ben68
Well-known member
I had an extra capacitor that showed the same characteristics - all the others are okay - and I put in that other one anyway.
Considering that this is my first PCB soldering adventure, I suspect it's my dodgy soldering skills. I'm too embarrassed to show you what it looks like... I think I'll pull everything off and do it over. It's good practice in any case.
I did have some trouble with the ribbon cable - maybe - hopefully - that's the problem. I wish there were an easy way to check the integrity of the capacitor.
I'm using a 40W Weller and solder w/flux core.
Considering that this is my first PCB soldering adventure, I suspect it's my dodgy soldering skills. I'm too embarrassed to show you what it looks like... I think I'll pull everything off and do it over. It's good practice in any case.
I did have some trouble with the ribbon cable - maybe - hopefully - that's the problem. I wish there were an easy way to check the integrity of the capacitor.
I'm using a 40W Weller and solder w/flux core.
Rajel
Well-known member
Cool, do be *careful* removing the caps.
Excess and repeated heat will delaminate the circuit pads and traces from the substrate, remove the component as quickly as you safely can.
Look into an iron upgrade. 60W minimum is what you typically want, digitally controlled is a massive plus.
I got a used Hakko FM-202 awhile back - it heats in less than 10 seconds and will hold a temperature VERY well when applied to solder and components.
Even the base-end Hakko models are well worth it.
Also, if you get NOTHING else, I recommend a flux pen - the flux in the solder core is not really enough to properly do surface-mount soldering. You can get it from Amazon, or most electronics parts stores like Frys/MicroCenter/etc. Swipe this over the pads you're soldering to and it makes the solder stick a LOT more easily, and with less heat application. It's a cheapupgrade to your tools that will make a positive impact on your current setup.
https://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-Rosin-Flux-Pen/dp/B0080X79HG/
Excess and repeated heat will delaminate the circuit pads and traces from the substrate, remove the component as quickly as you safely can.
Look into an iron upgrade. 60W minimum is what you typically want, digitally controlled is a massive plus.
I got a used Hakko FM-202 awhile back - it heats in less than 10 seconds and will hold a temperature VERY well when applied to solder and components.
Even the base-end Hakko models are well worth it.
Also, if you get NOTHING else, I recommend a flux pen - the flux in the solder core is not really enough to properly do surface-mount soldering. You can get it from Amazon, or most electronics parts stores like Frys/MicroCenter/etc. Swipe this over the pads you're soldering to and it makes the solder stick a LOT more easily, and with less heat application. It's a cheapupgrade to your tools that will make a positive impact on your current setup.
https://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-Rosin-Flux-Pen/dp/B0080X79HG/
Rajel
Well-known member
If you're really looking to start upgrading your core tools, I'd say start with this:
https://www.amazon.com/Hakko-FX888D-23BY-Digital-Soldering-FX-888D/dp/B00ANZRT4M/
There are some other decent options for fairly fine work that doesn't need tons of heat, here's a generally-portable one that just needs an external power brick - old laptop power supplies work pretty great for it, the heat is quick and fairly stable, and runs about half the price of the Hakko I linked above.
https://www.banggood.com/TS100-Digital-OLED-Programable-Interface-DC-5525-Soldering-Iron-Station-Built-in-STM32-Chip-p-984214.html
Review of it here:
My engineer buddy down in TX has one, and while it's not replaced his Hakko, anything that he needs to work on outside of his workshop he brings this little guy and it works pretty great.
edit: actually watching the video, and holy crap that heats up faster than even I expected.
https://www.amazon.com/Hakko-FX888D-23BY-Digital-Soldering-FX-888D/dp/B00ANZRT4M/
There are some other decent options for fairly fine work that doesn't need tons of heat, here's a generally-portable one that just needs an external power brick - old laptop power supplies work pretty great for it, the heat is quick and fairly stable, and runs about half the price of the Hakko I linked above.
https://www.banggood.com/TS100-Digital-OLED-Programable-Interface-DC-5525-Soldering-Iron-Station-Built-in-STM32-Chip-p-984214.html
Review of it here:
My engineer buddy down in TX has one, and while it's not replaced his Hakko, anything that he needs to work on outside of his workshop he brings this little guy and it works pretty great.
edit: actually watching the video, and holy crap that heats up faster than even I expected.
Last edited by a moderator:
