Macintosh Classic stuck on screensaver and won't boot into OS

[dylan4397]

Hello, 

I've been a Mac user for a few years, but just go into classic Macs.

If this is not the right place for this post I am sorry about it, as it's my first post in a Mac forum.

I have had this Macintosh Classic that I got for free sitting around for a few months and finally decided to get a mouse (I already had a keyboard). When I turn it on it doesn't display the Welcome to Macintosh pop up, and goes straight into a PYRO! version 4 screensaver of a clock. Sometimes it doesn't even get this far, and I need to hold shift on start-up. I cannot get passed the screensaver. I tried booting to ROM with command-option-x-o, and it worked a few times, but doesn't anymore. Like I said earlier I am new to vintage Macs and would like any help I can get.

Thanks, 

Dylan

 

[bibilit]

Maybe your keyboard is faulty ? and not able to start without extensions off.

The only idea is that Pyro has been selected as default startup program and you are stuck there.

As the Welcome startup screen has been customized to the one you have got there, probably your issue.

 

[cheesestraws]

Welcome to the forum!

First of all, what I would probably do in your position would be to download a Disk Tools floppy image, probably 7.1, pop it on a floppy (just a normal 1.4 meg floppy) and try booting from that.  After that I'd check the keyboard is working properly.  More detailed notes below:

When I turn it on it doesn't display the Welcome to Macintosh pop up

The Welcome to Macintosh screen can be customised to be any arbitrary image that the owner of the machine wants, really.  That "Dare to want it all" screen you've got there is the replacement image that someone's stuck in.  IIRC, this is in a file called StartupScreen in the System Folder.  When you get the machine working, you can either leave it as it is, remove it, or replace it with something else .

finally decided to get a mouse

Does the mouse cursor move?  When the machine first powers on, there'll be a short period where you just have a mouse pointer on the screen and nothing else, before the Welcome to Macintosh or equivalent kicks in.  You can move the mouse in that period, and that'll tell you if your mouse is working.

Sometimes it doesn't even get this far, and I need to hold shift on start-up. I cannot get passed the screensaver. I tried booting to ROM with command-option-x-o, and it worked a few times, but doesn't anymore. Like I said earlier I am new to vintage Macs and would like any help I can get.

Shift ought to work.  I agree with @bibilit, this does sound a bit like your keyboard is dodgy to me.  If you boot from a floppy you'll be able to check it.

 

[dochilli]

Did you try to boot with a bootdisk? Perhaps OS 6.08?

 

[MrFahrenheit]

Have you opened your Classic up?  I wonder if your boot rom issue is because you have either battery leakage or capacitor leakage and corrosion (or both!). 
 

As for it going straight into Pyro that shouldn’t happen unless you are booting with extensions. 
 

Try pressing the Apple and power on keyboard key once booted up. It should display a white box on the screen. You can also get this box by pressing one of the two buttons on the left side of the Mac. Once there, you can type commands in. This is the interrupt box that allows modifying the system at a very low level. 
 

Try this (and press return after):

G FINDER

It should exit whatever is running at the time. It may crash your system. If that doesn’t work, try this

G 40F6D8

Those are a

L ##L#L#
 

This tells the Mac to go to a specific memory address, which resets the system without rebooting. It’s not something you do all the time it’s a last resort. 

 

[dylan4397]

I tried again today and did mange to get booted into ROM. The keyboard and mouse do seem do work fine. I have opened the computer, and the battery and capacitors do seem fine. I removed the battery and will probably need to re cap the board at some point even though it wasn't leaking. Is there a way to remove the screensaver while booted in ROM? I did also try the interrupt commands and the G FINDER only crashed the computer and the G  40F6D8 did nothing.

Thanks, 

Dylan

 

[IlikeTech]

Yes, if the hard drive shows up on the desktop.  Open the hard drive, and then the System folder, and then Control Panels.  Remove anything related to the screensaver (I would move it, not delete it, just outside the system folder).  Then, do the same thing in extensions.  Then see if it boots.

 

[dylan4397]

When I click on the hard drive it only shows games and programs, and when I go to the boot disk option, it shoes the system folder but won't let me open anything.

 

[bibilit]

I don't see the System folder ? somewhere else ?

The system folder itself should not be removed, and if no icon is present on the folder itself, it is not blessed.

 

[dylan4397]

Sorry, I just realized that the hard drive window was covering the system folder icon. The error message in the photo above comes up whenever I click anything in the system folder.

 

[cheesestraws]

There should be a System Folder icon on the hard disc.

I think someone has done some ... modifications to the software on this machine.  I recognise the signs ;-) .

The quickest way to get this working again is probably honestly to reinstall the OS, which isn't particularly tricky.

Do you have a floppy drive for a more modern machine?

 

[dylan4397]

Yes I have an external floppy drive, but it seems all of my old floppies are FAT 16 formatted. The computer I am using to try and make the boot disk is a 2012 MacBook Pro.   Is the file in the picture what you would use to make the install disk?

 

[cheesestraws]

but it seems all of my old floppies are FAT 16 formatted

That's fine, they can be reformatted, so long as you don't mind losing the data on them!  Mac 800k discs are a bit weird, and it's hard to write them on modern machines, but 1.4 meg discs will be fine.

Is the file in the picture what you would use to make the install disk?

I mean, it's got the right name, whether it's got the right stuff in it is another question ;-) .  If in doubt, try using the top download here: https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/macintosh-os-71x

(edit for clarity: this contains the tools you need to format and maintain the hard disk, and it is bootable.  To install the OS you'd probably want an Install set, like the ones I linked above).

This has all the discs for System 7.1, which is a reasonably sensible thing IMO to run on a Classic and I think is in a state where you can just copy the images to disk.  You should be able to use these instructions to do so: http://www.savagetaylor.com/2018/05/28/setting-up-your-vintage-classic-68k-macintosh-creating-your-own-boot-able-disk-image/

The short version is: plug the floppy drive (USB, I assume), into the macbook; use diskutil list or the GUI Disk Utility to find out what drive it is, then use the dd command to copy the image to the disk directly.  dd is a command that does block copying from one device to another.

 

[dylan4397]

Thanks for the help! I will try this and see if it works. 

 

[cheesestraws]

Thanks for the help! I will try this and see if it works. 

You're very welcome!  And good luck.  If you can boot into that ROM image and use the machine a bit, that's really good evidence that the hardware is good, so you should be OK I think.  The ROM disc in the Classic is great for that.

 

[dylan4397]

I haven' had time to try installing system 7 on the Mac yet, as I have been busy this morning. I just had a look at the files, will a need to use multiple floppy disks? As the files are bigger than 1.44mb. Also, do you just use the install.dsk and install2.dsk or use everything in the folder. Sorry if the answer is obvious, I am new to this like I said earlier! 

Thanks,

Dylan

 

[bibilit]

Try holding down the shift key, don’t see why you are not able to boot with extensions off. 

Probably the best option to get back to something usable. Floppy drive is fine but time consuming if you are not used to it. 

 

[dylan4397]

I see that it does turn off one extensions when I hold shift, but I think that pyro isn't an extension. It might be its own program.

 

[techknight]

I tried again today and did mange to get booted into ROM. The keyboard and mouse do seem do work fine. I have opened the computer, and the battery and capacitors do seem fine. I removed the battery and will probably need to re cap the board at some point even though it wasn't leaking. Is there a way to remove the screensaver while booted in ROM? I did also try the interrupt commands and the G FINDER only crashed the computer and the G  40F6D8 did nothing.

Thanks, 

Dylan

"buzzzzt" try again. The capacitors are most certainly NOT fine unless it has already been recapped. 

In all seriousness though it will only get worse until they are changed. I am quite surprised it even works as is.