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LaCie MO 230 drive for PB 190 or 5300

Cory5412

Daring Pioneer of the Future
Staff member
Tape was for business, the consumer is king and the Zip is what happened. Like it or not.
Hm. Except for that period ending in the early 2000s where there was more than one tape format aimed directly at consumers. DAT was sort of for both and Travan was sold to consumers. MacWorld reviewed a late Travan drive in like 2001 or 2002 with an iMac G3. VXA superseded Travan and was aimed at Mac users on systems with Firewire ports for a little while as well, that one was a little more "make archives of the contents of your video disks" than "start a system backup on Saturdays before you go mow the lawn" that Travan had been, but burnable CDs and DVDs made more replacement as a replacement for Travan than for Zip, so that's probably why at exactly the itme burnable DVDs became standard in most of Apple's machines (and available everywhere else in the industry) "go to the CompUSA and buy a new tape drive for your home office computer" faded out.

A Zip at home paired with a Zip at work and half or a full dozen cartridges was plenty enough and good enough for even the average consumer to open the wallet.
Interestingly, that model didn't work well for Iomega. They were in financial trouble and that was what led to the further cost reduction that is attributed to some of the issues in the Click of Death category.

Iomega was counting on people wanting to hoard more and having to come back for more cartridges on a regular basis, which didn't really materialize.

MO was pro gear for a production environment review.
I think the argument re MO vs. Jaz and SYquest is that MO was too slow for that work. It really wasn't, but.

Elsewhere(TM) (everywhere but The Americas basically) MO got a lot more popular. There's nothing inherent to any particular kind of work that makes MO unsuitable to it, other than perhaps work that is actually best conducted on a single big fast disk, or even a RAID array, both of which were options. If your goal is to backup that kind of data, or move those kinds of big files, 5.25" MO is probably your next best option after, if you can control the environment at the destination, tape.

We fell for Iomega's trick. They bought the position they had, basically because Americans don't often look closely at total cost vs. initial cost.

Any given MO maker could probably have done it. In 1993, MO cartridges were 128 megs, but that scaled up to IIRC 230 and then 640 then 1300 pretty rapidly over the next ~10 years, and all of those cartridges are forward compatible. It just happens to be that none of them tried to do it.

 

Cory5412

Daring Pioneer of the Future
Staff member
n.b. Apple had already led itself down a gopher hole with the Twiggy drive in an attempt to capitalize on removable storage patents. They failed, Iomega succeeded.
Apples and oranges: Apple never even shipped the Twiggy drives. It was a well intentioned but failed attempt to build something with a higher data capacity. Sony came along with the 3.5-inch disk and Apple chose that over their own solution because it was a lot better.

The Wikipedia article about the FileWare/Twiggy disks mentions that Twiggy was the second choice for the original Mac anyway, allegedly Apple had intended to put a different type of disk in, then investigated Twiggy (for all of their platforms) and then went with 3.5" 400k diskettes.

You can go on forever about shoulda-woulda-coulda in hindsight for any number of reasons and they all amount to exactly jack Zip. The Mac was qualitatively better with a far more advanced GUI OS than PCs until what, the Win 95 mimic of System 7? With the advent of the undeniably inferior Win3.0, the consumer decided and the Mac was relegated to a niche market segment. As you said, Zip was at the very least "good enough," the timing was perfect and the entry price unbeatable. So was Win 3.0. So it goes.


DOS or Windows 3 didn't melt your machine or corrupt your data. There's a difference between a $1300 PC bundle with a 286sx and a 4/40 config being "good enough" to type letters and recipes into (it was, even if the Mac was objectively a better computer), and ZIP100 being "good enough" to store only copies of your data (it wasn't, and every other removable media format, including plain 3.5-inch floppy disks, are better at their stated goal.

Iomega's problem was they bought their market dominance and bet on a product that should've fizzled out after just a couple of years, and managed to force a few more years out of it by almost giving the drives away, despite never really fixing the problems.

Windows' dominance was earned by actually being less costly than the competiton. If you look at the chart I posted from MacWorld, 640-meg MO drives didn't cost much more than a zip drive, especially in the context of some of the higher end computers people were buying that had Zips bundled in, a $330 storage drive isn't that wild, especially as you're looking at built-in hard disk capacities increasing, and data file sizes increasing. It would be super interesting to see if there was ever any analysis done of the Zip market to find out what percentage of them, say, owned ten or fewer cartridges. (A point at which presuming no failures ever, TCO is lower than MO.) Also, however, this means Iomega completely misunderstood the market they paid so much to win, and might have been better off cost-reducing Bernoulli or the 21-meg floptical product, and iterating further on one of those. Iomega's entire pricing model was based on the idea that pepole would come back for new cartridges on a pretty regular basis, so if nothing else, then historical Iomega deserves to be panned for that fact.

So, back to a thesis I presented a few posts ago: It was good enough, until it wasn't, Iomega tried to get more time out of it than it deserved, especially given that DVD-RAM and CD burners basically became commodity items in 1999, and we owe zip nothing today. There's no good reason to endorse it over any other period or modern storage or data transfer technology.

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
Your point being? EVERY company pushes every product for all  it can get out of it, that argument's null. Microsoft's predatory licensing scheme for Windows was another story entirely. Apple DID ship the Twiggy drive in the Lisa and SJ gave in to under the radar Sony Micro-Drive shenanigans by the Macintosh team when Twiggy production yields proved to be abysmal.

You don't like Zip, fine.  In the only court case against Zip, all the complainants got in the settlement was a coupon to buy another Iomega product. Only a very tiny percentage of Zip users suffered the much blown out of proportion "click of death" a term which pre-dates the Zip.

Your objections are noted, your thesis leaves a lot to be desired. Zip was still "good enough" for its intended data transfer use and blessed by Priests of Cupertino until the MDD shipped. It's still good enough to use to this day.

Trust your data to cloud servers compromised by foreign cyberspooks or to Zip? MO would be a better choice, granted.

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
Iomega's problem was they bought their market dominance and bet on a product that should've fizzled out after just a couple of years, and managed to force a few more years out of it by almost giving the drives away, despite never really fixing the problems.
Citation required, everything I've seen said they addressed the QC problems. I've NEVER read a credible report of problems being continuous through end of life.

Iomega's entire pricing model was based on the idea that pepole would come back for new cartridges on a pretty regular basis, so if nothing else, then historical Iomega deserves to be panned for that fact.
 Oh, like an ink jet printer mfr? Fuggadeboudit, that's a dead horse and hindsight at its worst. Iomega won, game over.

Just took a peek at Wikipedea, found this tidbit interesting:

In 2006,

PC World rated the Zip drive as the 15th worst technology product of all time.[10] Nonetheless, in 2007, PC World rated the Zip drive as the 23rd best technology product of all time[11] despite its known problems.



So two years after it was released Zip was panned as the 15th worst thing ever: pretty much your position? Just one year later it was celebrated by the same magazine as the 23rd best bit of tech ever? I'm not going to rate it nearly that high, but telling everyone that they should use anything BUT what Apple put in Macs seems way off the mark to me. Zip is what got used back in the day and using it within limits today and playing with it today is re- living the Mac experience as it was for almost ten years whether it sticks in your craw or not.

Zip is still plenty good enough for transferring files across a retroMac collection. Likely the easiest to come by and by far the easiest to use if your collecting interests have you moving from machine to machine, and from storage to playpen. If your collection is small and in stasis, networking is easier, but really no more reliable for transferring files for all practical purposes. You have the benefit of setting up a variety of Zip boot disks for troubleshooting, there networking fails miserably as an all encompassing solution.

 

Cory5412

Daring Pioneer of the Future
Staff member
.

Citation required, everything I've seen said they addressed the QC problems. I've NEVER read a credible report of problems being continuous through end of life.
Even if they did, it requires being able to certify when all of your disks and drives were made, approximately halving the available pool of usable disks and drives, or simply forgoing ever using 100MB media altogether. (A possibility, SCSI Zip250 equipment appears to have existed, with the presumption that because Zip250 was introduced in late '98 after all of this bubbled up and they fired their CEO over the quality/design problems, all Zip250 (and 750) media and drives are fine.)

And, there's a good chance they didn't, and even still, part of the click of death problem was that old drives would fall out of alignment, and then when you put media you used in the "bad" drive into a good drive, it changes the alignment of the good drive, and the only solution is essentially to do your best to isolate the bad drive, use it to recover all the data from the disks it's touched, and then replace that drive, and I forget if you had to either replace all the disks or just reformat them with a new/good drive.

And, that's separate from issues with the media edge issues (although also caused by alignment) and (not caused by alignment IIRC) disk cover issues.

And, proportionally, Zip had these issues at a higher rate than any other type of media.

Fuggadeboudit, that's a dead horse and hindsight at its worst. Iomega won, game over.
Until they didn't. It's fairly well known as public information that Iomega was hurting in 1998, financially, because they made almost no money on the drives, which they practically gave away to a very extensive list of computer OEMs, and people didn't end up buying media at the rate Iomega had hoped.

Iomega hoped, more or less, that small internal hard disk capacities and high costs for adding new fixed disks, plus the need for transfers and backups would mean people would buy a zip drive or two and then come back for a new cartridge on the regular to do things like archive email, archive photos from scanners or digital cameras (if you really like your Mavica, you can happily run through a few diskettes worth of pictures in a week or an active day, and that can translate to a zip disk every 1-2 months, for example) and things like saving web pages, downloaded software updates, etc.

Basically, Iomega was betting on people buying Zip disks to be way worse pack-rats than they actually were.

Of course, there's also the quesiton of whether we're litigating "zip being viable or good in the '90s" or not. You're the one who keeps bringing up "back in the day" as if it has any real bearing on what we do here and now. Most of the upgrades I see people shove into their high end Macs either didn't exist or weren't practical "back in the day" -- or were themselves failed products that were never practical. *cough* Radius Rockets *cough* and yet nobody lets that change what they do today. Why does "people did it in the '90s" dictate that we should suggest people do it now?

And if you're going to say "oh, well, it was fine in the '90s" then you don't get to point to my examples from MacWorld in 1998 and say "oh, that's bad data, who cares about the '90s anyway?"

Just one year later it was celebrated by the same magazine as the 23rd best bit of tech ever?
That's a better indictment of that magazine than it is a defense of Zip as a technology. Probably different people wrote those articles and they just reflect that particular person's priorities than anything else.

Zip is still plenty good enough for transferring files across a retroMac collection. Likely the easiest to come by and by far the easiest to use if your collecting interests have you moving from machine to machine, and from storage to playpen. If your collection is small and in stasis, networking is easier, but really no more reliable for transferring files for all practical purposes. You have the benefit of setting up a variety of Zip boot disks for troubleshooting, there networking fails miserably as an all encompassing solution.


Just idly: Almost none of this is, in fact, not doable with CD-Rs. Especially if you take a good fast CD drive out of something pretty new like a Power Mac 7300/8600/9600 and put it in any ol' SCSI case. You can use the big huge keyboard command to boot basically any Mac with a SCSI port to that CD drive, including, I believe, the Plus, and then do your testing, install your software, make your backup (albeit: not to the CD drive you're booting from), or just run games and software.

For read/write needs, there's the SCSI2SD - and you can take the SD card out of that and put it in a modern computer. SD card readers cost less at your local WalMart than USB Zip drives do on eBay. Again, works on any Mac with SCSI.

Is it different from the original experience? Yes. How many people on the forum do you think care? -- The ones who do already have some kind of removable storage system-or are in the process of acquiring one-of whatever kind of media they happen to prefer. For some, it's MO because they'd rather have the reliability than some kind of "authenticity" provided by the fact that Iomega dumped Zip drives on Apple and into Wal-Mart. For some, it's Bernoulli or SyQuest because it's what they happened to have or it's because that's what was in their vintage Mac when they got it. To be honest, "it was already in the machine when I got it" or "I stumbled upon a big pile of it for cheap, at a garage sale" is probably the best reason to get Zip stuff today.

For a lot of people, the really young ones or the people who were looking in on this stuff from afar when it was new? I'm thinking most of them probably don't have any specific nostalgia one way or another. I don't think most people looked at their computer or a catalog and planned up front to need to buy a lot of extra storage for it. You ended up doing it because it turns out you like the computer a lot or because over time your needs changed or because 1.4 meg floppies ended up being a really  inefficient way to accumulate data, especially as the '90s wear on.

It's fine that you like your Zip drives. I like the Zip stuff I have too, and I'm not going to remove it from any given machine I have unless there's a really compelling reason, but I'm also never going to advocate that someone who doesn't already have any zip stuff go get some. It's not cheap any more and there's a pretty high chance you'll come across some bad disks or drives that never got weeded out in the '90s and Zip itself is not a very resilient technology, so treating it the way you might treat floppy or LS-120 has a higher chance of breaking more things than actually being a good troubleshooting tool.

If you can accept that and you're willing to continue rebuilding your disks and backups and take the risk of losing data and losing equipment, then Zip is fine, but why pay for something twice when you can get something that you can be sure you'll only have to pay for once? Why pay for the thing at all if you can have a similar or better experience with a modern technology that performs better and is less likely to have problems?

I'm not out to tell you to dump all your zip stuff. I'm out to make the point that we as a community should be more careful about what we recommend to people who don't know better. If people are going to engage in complaining bitterly about RAM ceilings on LC-family computers, or the board design of the LC 6200, then I think we get to allow discussion about the fact that Zip proved itself while it was in production to be the least reliable magnetic media storage format, and this was discussed openly in the Mac tech press at the time. Just as the weird RAM limit on the Macs LC & TV, the bad hinges on the PowerBook 5x0, and the bad keyboards on the newest MacBook Pros all have been.

(Worth noting: MacWorld is also pretty open about Jaz and contemporary SyQuest media being pretty bad on the reliability front, and also Castlewood Orb was pretty bad. Syquest's newer stuff, SyJet and Sparq, and the anticipated 4.7-gig cartridge format were all so bad that Syquest did actually go bankrupt, and Iomega bought them, probably to get at IP and patents.)

 

Charadis

Well-known member
Regarding first-party OS support for Zip: only by way of bundling the necessary drivers, which you can find (perhaps with some inconvenience) or kludge your way around having to use on other formats. And, any machine where Zip support is convenient or where Zips were built in is a machine where it's likely unnecessary or where networking is trivial (i.e. the 7/8/9 and G3+ powermacs all have onboard 10bt+ Ethernet) and a better option for loading software and transferring data to them (CD-ROM drives that are fast, run well, and read CD-RW media fine).

The inconvenience of adding official support for SyQuest or MO on a beige G3 is about the same as what it takes to get Zip running on any 68k Mac running any version of the OS where Zip support wasn't bundled in, so in the absolute best case scenario, adding Zip to my 1400, 840, LC520, PM6100, LC475, or whatever is only more convenient than adding MO or Bernoulli by the way of a single reboot on whatever newer Mac I add the drive to as well.

These processes could be better documented, and perhaps we can call upon the kindness of people like @Charadis and @1400man and @olePigeon who have used these formats to help get this information gathered.
Gladly! From my limited experience, between the Zip and MO drives I've used in both the 3400c and Kanga, neither were ready to run off the bat on Mac OS 9.1. I think the support was better for Zip straight from the OS install in earlier Mac OS version. At least for me, it didn't work just plugging in, or the drive had issues reading IBM/PC format disks (didn't open a new one/Mac format at the time) 

Seems this guy experienced difficulties getting an internal Zip drive to work on his 3400c a while back, though he was on a higher OS number (9.2.2) for his system: 





After getting working drivers for both drives (which I thank @olePigeon for providing! And Macintosh Garden for the updated Iomega software!), they both seem to work naturally, like the 3400c's/Kanga's CD drive expansion. Only with MO, the Eject option under Special tab remains greyed out, but dragging disk to trash works fine. 

Each format has their own specialized software, however, and while I have not toured through Iomega's entire suite of options, there seems to be a lot more to choose from than the Fujitsu MO software. With MO, using the formatter allows you to load/update the driver that is on the MO disk; essentially, I believe this allows you to be able to use the drive without needing an Extension loaded to the Ext folder of your HDD's system folder. Problem is, the MO has to be already inserted at boot up in order to read the disk and enable the driver.

If you have a System folder also stored at Root, the Mac will use the MO as a startup disk to boot from instead of the HDD.  It is noticeably slower than the spindle HDD, but seems faster than floppy disk. And definitely quieter. Not very much noise. I hardly hear any spin up or reading, contrary to my experience with Sony's Minidisk format or UMD on their PlayStation Portable (PSP). I have to listen close to the drive itself when it's loading or writing to hear any feedback. 

The MO software also allows you to change the MO icon when formatting. I don't know why that's cool :)  

My limited time using Zip 100 on the 3400c/Kanga and Wallstreet, formatting a disk is faster; it doesn't take but a few seconds to format from IBM/PC to Mac. I had issues using an old Zip disk originally formatted as IBM/PC on the 3400c. But opening up a new disk and formatting it had no issues. It did click a few times with the new one, also, but significantly less than the old used disk. There is also the possibility my two Zip drives are at fault and need maintenance... :/  

Hope that helps! 

Dunno why this thread got so big. I cant even find these drives. I own both a 5300 and a 3400, cant find a zip nor LS120 or anything. 
Me neither! I'm not really searching for these drives directly. I've been able to find the Zip 100 drive for the PB 5300/190/3400c/Kanga a few times though, they're out there. Would not have found the MO drive if I hadn't done my routine blanket searches. 

If you're really after them, though, you could look for Macs that come with the drive installed, though being more expensive. My latest 3400c Zip 100 expansion actually came from a recent eBay auction for a 3400c I spotted a day after reading @Trash80toHP_Mini 's response here. One of the photos, you can clearly see the VST bezel. :) It was a Buy It Now auction for $60 plus $19.66 shipping with Best Offer. Shot an offer for $50, and the seller accepted less than an hour later. (will probably resell the 3400c as I don't need it, and it's not working correctly) 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Macintosh-PowerBook-3400c-Series-Laptop/253677115894?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

This was the 4th pic on the listing. You can see the Zip drive peeking from the side... I was just hoping the seller would include it, despite stating no accessories included  :)  

s-l1600-4.jpg

Just keep an eye out if you're looking for one! 

 
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Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
Great snag! Did the seller send along an FDD module? If not, the Zip would be easily mistaken for standard equipment.

Cory, I think we're both missing a crucial point about the Zip's steady decline from late nineties to 2ks. Cartridges of all types fell out of favor as the service bureau business switched over to online transfers of data and consumers weren't likely far behind. Being the de facto standard for such transfers by then, Iomega would have taken the biggest hit if they'd built a business model based upon cartridge sales. Service bureaus began to die off as  advances hardware/software progressed and falling prices of imagesetting equipment saw it moving into production houses and printing outfits.

edit: one of the worst disappointments of my collecting efforts was a 1400 Zip arriving in a bubblepack envelope with a shattered bezel. Seller didn't even know what a bezel was, but made a reasonable settlement. Still can't bear to look at the poor little thing sitting in the PB peripherals drawer.

 
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Zippy Zapp

Well-known member
Very cool MO drive.  I was a Syquest user back to the Amiga and with my Mid 90's Macs so I never really used MO.  If I find one around for cheap I won't hesitate to pick it up.

Not sure what all the hubbub about ZIP being a bad media.  I still have my original internal zip drive and have many, many disks of 100MB and 250MB.  While I have archived those disks over the years to CD and DVD media they all still work just fine.  Out of the 50 or so disks that I have, (I inherited a bunch when a friend got rid of his Mac stuff) I don't think I every had one go bad and we used them at work to carry files to both a print house and our home workstations.  Can't say the same for floppy disks over the years as I have tossed out dozens of those that went bad.

I still use Zip disks today with the systems that I own that still have the drives in them from when I bought them new. I do think that there are a lot of great options for transferring files from more modern systems to older systems and Zip, as well as networking, CD drives, Syquest drives, and many other options are all still viable.  I just don't rely on old tech to store my priceless data. 

It was pretty much common knowledge back then, that the Zip drive was killed by CD burners, not by the click of death.  Same goes for Syquest and most of the removable market leaders.  

Personally, I always preferred Syquest over Zip and sill have my 88MB drive, bought new, as well as a EZ135, SyJet (crappy drive) and a few in between.  I only ever had one Jaz drive that someone gave me and it failed as did all the carts with it. 

Syquest suffered from later lower product quality and some pretty bad design decisions. The Syquest EZFlyer, SyJet and SparQ mechanisms had problems and it was clear that quality had suffered.  The "push-in" drives in those models seemed very unreliable in comparison to the "lever" type drives of previous models. 

 

1400man

Member
FYI, it appears that macOS 10.13.5 has no problem reading MOs on a Fujitsu DynaMO 640U2 Hyper USB2.0 drive: https://imgur.com/a/3NP38Cn

Parsing the Japanese-language manual, it seems that this drive is officially supported on Mac OS 9.0.4 and up, including OS X 10.1 and up as well. No drivers are necessary on either platform. 9.2.2 pops up a format prompt as soon as I insert a blank disk.

 

Gorgonops

Moderator
Staff member
Cory, I think we're both missing a crucial point about the Zip's steady decline from late nineties to 2ks.
Honestly it kind of seems like a tiny little molehill has been blown into Mount Everest regarding this Zip drive discussion.

Trash, you are correct that, yes, for whatever reason the Zip drive was perceived by the (American, at least) market as being the right device at the right time and pretty indisputably won the "Superfloppy Sweepstakes" of the mid-1990's. (Thanks mostly to the increased use of graphics and fancy formatting in humdrum applications like word processor this was the era during which normal day-to-day file sizes for begin significantly outgrowing the 1.44MB floppy; it wasn't just people lugging publishing files to service bureaus who needed a solution for lugging around 5/10/20MB+ at a pop anymore.) Zip might not have been the technically best solution, but it beat LS-120 to market by nearly three years, MO was *perceived* as too "exotic" with too high of a cost-of-entry (the fact that MO usually needed a SCSI controller while a ZIP could just hang off your printer port was undoubtedly a factor, among others), and other competitors like SyQuest's EZ-135/EZ-Flyer often had even worse reliability problems than Zip.

(SyQuest faceplanted all over the map, here, frankly. If they'd done a better job at marketing their 105MB 3.5" format drive introduced in 1993 and been willing to sell it at close to a loss like Iomega did with the Zip to popularize the format the Zip might have never gotten off the ground. Instead they came out with an incompatible "consumer" 135MB cartridge a year too late, splitting and confusing their own customer base... and then the disks started dropping like flies.)
 

The sad fact about a free market is the "best" product doesn't always win. Zip was good enough, it filled a need, and did so reasonably competently until better solutions for the problem came along. But, per Cory's points, there are *far better* options for storage in the high-dozens-of-megabytes-to-low-gigabytes range now, mostly Flash-based, and many of them are adaptable to retro-computing use. Thrift stores might still be lousy with old-stock Zip disks (although, honestly, I kind of feel like that flood has mostly dried up.) but it's not like ultimately much better solutions like the SCSI2SD are expensive. (I mean, really, let's get real, a SCSI2SD doesn't cost much more than taking a family of four out to Denny's. I know we're all used to getting things for free, but if you remember at all what the computers we talk about on this forum cost when they were new it's positively cringeworthy to see how worked up people get over sub-three-figure price tags.)

The best solution for carrying the music of your choice around with you in your car in 1967 looked like this:

gettyimages_90730574_wide-13a49e22f7e457e7772511c1a8a5ae7fd7bc722e-s600-c85.jpg.b8701ef3abd3c882468cca4bb0298ef7.jpg


That doesn't mean it's the best option today even if your car also happens to be from 1967. Sure, 8-Track tapes worked well enough and certainly beat trying to run a phonograph player in your car (which was a thing some companies actually tried to push once), but they were never *that* reliable (I'm *just* old enough to remember trying to get snarled tape out of the 8-track deck in my mother's car, and it's something I had to do more than once.) and at this point the media is simply dying of old age. (TL;DR, if you ever find an 8-track player at a garage sale with a pile of tapes don't expect to play them without giving both the drive and the tapes some serious TLC involving replacing expired rubber, foam, and sticky tape components.) Older hard disks are already failing en-mass thanks to the same reasons, I have no doubt that age alone will eventually take down all the non-Click-o-Death'ed Zip cartridges left in circulation. (And unlike is the case with 8-track tape cartridges I kind of doubt that Zip drives and cartridges will be easily amenable to DIY fixes. The parts are just too tiny and fragile, even compared to floppy drives.)

In short, if you have a particular nostalgia for Zip that's fine, keep playing with your pile of disks all you want. I keep insisting on using real 5 1/4" floppy disks with my retro computers because I have a few hundred of them that don't seem to have expired yet and I love the nostalgic sights and sounds. But I wouldn't pretend it's a good solution to recommend to anyone today.

 

Charadis

Well-known member
Great snag! Did the seller send along an FDD module? If not, the Zip would be easily mistaken for standard equipment.

edit: one of the worst disappointments of my collecting efforts was a 1400 Zip arriving in a bubblepack envelope with a shattered bezel. Seller didn't even know what a bezel was, but made a reasonable settlement. Still can't bear to look at the poor little thing sitting in the PB peripherals drawer.
Gracias! No sir, no FDD. I guess it was left in the PB and sold it as part of that system. No complaints about any missing FDD ;)  

Hate it when sellers ship fragile/expensive/rare goods in bubble wrap. Or insufficient packaging anyways. If you're looking for a replacement, looks like there is one listed as New on Amazon for $69.99 + $5.49 shipping. A bit rich for me...I don't even have a 1400c. 

https://www.amazon.com/SmartDisk-Drive-Powerbook-Expansion-100MB/dp/B00004Z8TD

Very cool MO drive.  I was a Syquest user back to the Amiga and with my Mid 90's Macs so I never really used MO.  If I find one around for cheap I won't hesitate to pick it up.
Interesting history on the SyQuest, yet another format that I never knew about. 

FYI, it appears that macOS 10.13.5 has no problem reading MOs on a Fujitsu DynaMO 640U2 Hyper USB2.0 drive: https://imgur.com/a/3NP38Cn

Parsing the Japanese-language manual, it seems that this drive is officially supported on Mac OS 9.0.4 and up, including OS X 10.1 and up as well. No drivers are necessary on either platform. 9.2.2 pops up a format prompt as soon as I insert a blank disk.
That is good to know. While a member is preparing to sell me one of his SCSI MO drives here, I'm wondering how far up Mac OS X would be supported...would be pretty stinkin awesome to plug a USB version into my MacBook Pro 

I always preferred Beta over VHS.

B)
DVD over VHS myself  B)

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
Damn the temptation!! MUST RESIST!! The computer budget is shot to hell ATM and that holes the good boat retroMac far below the waterline. 8GB arrived today and joined the 4GB in my HP NoteBook and a 1TB hybrid drive should be arriving tomorrow. There's a nice rectangular opening in the side of the cute little Firefox workstation now and the "Extra HDD" CD Caddy adapter will be staying put, having been been converted into a removable HDD/Hybrid Drive/SSD bay! [}:)] How's THAT for modern removable media. [:D]

1400 Zip money will be going to a real SSD for Ubuntu and never will the two operating systems be able to overwrite the other. Thanks for that warning about partitioned OS installations, G!

DVDs have quite a ways to go to overtake my VHS collection. At $1 a pop at the Pawn Shop I've been swapping out the VHS for DVD whenever I can.

 
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Cory5412

Daring Pioneer of the Future
Staff member
Interesting history on the SyQuest, yet another format that I never knew about.
Syquest was an entire company. I've heard varying reports on the reliability of their stuff, a lot of it is just that "hard platters in a plastic case you insert into a drive with heads in it" (same as Jaz) is kind of a really bad idea. IBM gave up on it in the 1960s or 70s.

I have an EZ-135 and I have had good luck with it in terms of media reliability, but I can immediately tell what the biggest problem is going to be. I like having it around, but I only have like 3-4 cartridges and one drive, so I use a serial cable and ethernet to transfer files between my old Macs instead.

I'm wondering how far up Mac OS X would be supported...would be pretty stinkin awesome to plug a USB version into my MacBook Pro 
I don't know if this got shown here, but I know that USB ones will work in Mac OS X 10.13.x. You won't be able to write to HFS with that version of Mac OS, but you would be able to use the drive.

10.4 or 10.5 would probably be a good mid-point in terms of being a good OS for going on web sites that v4/v5 browsers can't load (like mac garden) and also for writing to external media that is HFS formatted.

 

1400man

Member
I don't know if this got shown here, but I know that USB ones will work in Mac OS X 10.13.x. You won't be able to write to HFS with that version of Mac OS, but you would be able to use the drive.

10.4 or 10.5 would probably be a good mid-point in terms of being a good OS for going on web sites that v4/v5 browsers can't load (like mac garden) and also for writing to external media that is HFS formatted.
10.1.2 has extremely slow I/O with my Fujitsu USB2 MO (MCM3064UB/DynaMO 640U2 Hyper, Japanese market, manufactured February 2003), 10.1.5 massively improves it. Interestingly, the 10.1.5 release notes specifically mention improvements for users of MO drives. I did discover that you cannot mount 640M FAT MOs from a PC in 10.1.x, seemingly because of sector size confusion. This is corrected in 10.2.0, which successfully mounts PC MO disks. I can also confirm that they work just fine in 10.3 and 10.4. Have not tested anything in between 10.4.11 and 10.13.5, but I can absolutely confirm it works on my 2017 MBP Retina 15" Touch Bar with a USB-C to USB-A adapter.

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
I know we're all used to getting things for free, but if you remember at all what the computers we talk about on this forum cost when they were new it's positively cringeworthy to see how worked up people get over sub-three-figure price tags.)
Couldn't agree more.

 

tanaquil

Well-known member
(I mean, really, let's get real, a SCSI2SD doesn't cost much more than taking a family of four out to Denny's. I know we're all used to getting things for free, but if you remember at all what the computers we talk about on this forum cost when they were new it's positively cringeworthy to see how worked up people get over sub-three-figure price tags.)


I was just laughing the other day because I was pricing a 4 MB RAM upgrade for a Plus. $9.99 BIN on ebay. I scrimped and saved to afford the $200 it cost to upgrade my Classic to 4 MB in 1993, and that's pennies compared to some high end items.

 

Gorgonops

Moderator
Staff member
$9.99 BIN on ebay.
And, sadly enough, there are people that will gripe about that price because they remember using 1MB SIMMs for keychain fobs(*) back in the early 2000's because at the time they were utterly worthless.

(* Something I actually did.)

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
Never did the fob thing, but they were doing the same with the 256K variety in the 80s. When I had my buddies at Tekserve test the NewLife Accelerator I'd solder-hacked a socket onto my Killy Klip incompatible 512K's CPU, they gave it back in a 2.5MB config, no charge.

I'm very grateful a member mailed me a set of Apple branded 256K SIMMs to check against the 1MB SIMMs in my Drexel Mac/Plus.

MacProducts USA - ad in Macworld March 1990 issue - 4MB SIMM = $499

Macworld-March-1990-MacProductsUSA-Memory-ad.JPG

 
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