PowerBook 5300-gotchas?

GRudolf94

Well-known member
Re: 5300 vs 500 series performance complaints - one machine came with a bargain basement IDE drive kludged onto what is essentially half of its predecessor design; which is the other, natively equipped with SCSI ;)

Laptop SCSI drives were never any marvel, but laptop IDE drives until the 00s take the prize for terrible storage.
 

3lectr1cPPC

Well-known member
I also had mine as a student (postgrad in this case). I think a common theme is developing here & if @3lectr1cPPC also had a 5300 as a student, we're several steps towards a half-brained theory on their second-hand target audience :) .
As one of 68kmla's few resident zoomers, I'm afraid that was not the case for me. I got mine in 2021 :)
 

Snial

Well-known member
This one may be dumb enough that it doesn’t, but I doubt it. The BMS talks to the computer and tells it info on cell charge and such. It likely would not detect the battery without it present. It probably would run off the battery if you unplugged it while it was on, but Mac OS would just instantly put it into sleep mode. My 500 series batteries are rebuilt but the EMM BMS boards in both are not working properly, and that’s the behavior they show. The 1400 may be different, but I do doubt it.
If you just left it in there with no cells it would just report dead and the computer also wouldn’t run off of it.
Going back to this (though it may be answered in a later post). Does this mean that if someone removed the main battery from a PB5300, and powered it on, then it would just go back into sleep mode? He's finally tried it and initially that's what he saw (because the battery was corroded and therefore he's removed it). I thought the instant sleep mode was due to a PRAM setting, so I advised him to try and trick the PRAM by repowering the PowerBook a number of times (I told him to be careful as the PCB's power connection can break). Now, to quote:

"it makes a noise too, like a clucking. This is still going on but more like a clock ticking now. I'm sure it's coming from the speaker rather than the hard drive, for example"

Now, on the PB1400 I read somewhere that this behaviour can be due to overcurrent - I saw it when I tried to use the 166MHz CPU module on the 117 Motherboard (which is the same apart from the ROMs as we now know). Is this a bad cap sign?
 

Snial

Well-known member
Update: the PB5300c has now been sent to me. The PSU appears to deliver 23.2V instead of 24V (is that an issue). The PB5300 does indeed repeatedly click on power up. On initial power-up the green LED came on briefly, but then faded over a few repeated clicks. Lots of battery terminal corrosion (really serious). I guess it could be a cap issue? If a cap had gone, then the internal supply might not be smooth, so it'd get some power, things would start to turn on; the load would lower the voltage, and then it'd turn off which would reduce load and the voltage would go up & thus the cycle would repeat?

1708685414404.png

It's worse than Crusty the clown!
 

croissantking

Well-known member
Update: the PB5300c has now been sent to me. The PSU appears to deliver 23.2V instead of 24V (is that an issue). The PB5300 does indeed repeatedly click on power up. On initial power-up the green LED came on briefly, but then faded over a few repeated clicks. Lots of battery terminal corrosion (really serious). I guess it could be a cap issue? If a cap had gone, then the internal supply might not be smooth, so it'd get some power, things would start to turn on; the load would lower the voltage, and then it'd turn off which would reduce load and the voltage would go up & thus the cycle would repeat?

View attachment 70186

It's worse than Crusty the clown!
Oh dear. I’d wager it’s the corrosion keeping things from starting. You’ll have to disassemble and inspect how bad it is.

The 23.2V on the charger shouldn’t be an issue.
 

Snial

Well-known member
Imagine the horror of all of the downsides of a 5300 series PowerBook, plus the battery vomited its guts on it.
I don't need to imagine now!
DriveBattCircuitHeatsinkCorrosion.jpgMainBoardCorrosion.jpg
It's like a sci-fi horror movie... in particular it's like the sad episode of Blakes-7 where the Liberator gets eaten by some kind of extra-terrestrial fungus... or even more closely, the Protomolecule from the Expanse Season 1 converting its victims! Same colour too! It's been nice knowing you!
 

3lectr1cPPC

Well-known member
Eh, could be worse. Probably just a bad power board.
Funny how this goes. One of my power boards had contacts just as rough as yours was but it wasn't nearly as bad beyond that.
 

3lectr1cPPC

Well-known member
Building an active matrix 190cs (a 190c if you will) is something I've wanted to do for a while now. I've been surprised how few have showed up for sale, and of course, the ones that do always seem to have had the battery go thermonuclear inside, as is expected for these at this point.
The cells Apple used in the main batteries for these laptops leak worse than any other I've seen.
 

Snial

Well-known member
Update: the logic board was basically OK. A couple of pins on a RAM chip and another logic chip needed de-crudding. Also, I've carefully scraped most of the crud off the power board / regulator board (?) (though the photos show that there's still quite a bit of loose crust on the PCB and components). The square brown thing on the underside seems to be a coil and I can see quite a bit of crud on the inside. So, I think it needs to be removed, but I'm not sure how to do that since it's not through-hole. Caps seem to be OK as do all the other components and chips. Does anyone know what that coil does and whether the crud could prevent proper power to the 5300 (it might just be something to handle the battery for all I know).

MainBoardCorrosionUnderside.jpg
BattCircuitCorrosionScraped.jpg
 

GRudolf94

Well-known member
Both bricks on there are transformers and part of the multi-rail SMPS that is the power board. I would try finding a way to bench-test this - a failure could well cook the machine. One open via is enough. Ideally you'd remove those with hot air. Even more ideally, you'd find a replacement power board that hasn't been bombed :/

It's the kind of thing that designing a replacement for is well within the realm of possibilities, just I don't think many people with a 5300 able to do it would care to put in the effort.
 

Snial

Well-known member
Both bricks on there are transformers and part of the multi-rail SMPS that is the power board. I would try finding a way to bench-test this - a failure could well cook the machine. One open via is enough. Ideally you'd remove those with hot air. Even more ideally, you'd find a replacement power board that hasn't been bombed :/

It's the kind of thing that designing a replacement for is well within the realm of possibilities, just I don't think many people with a 5300 able to do it would care to put in the effort.

I recently bought a replacement 5300 power board off eBay. It's less corroded - the Transformer I removed from the original one looks OK.
PowerBoards5300Underside.jpg

However, on the topside, the guy who sold it to me had substituted entirely the wrong kind of cap! That's OK, I could replace it with one from my own unit.
PowerBoards5300Topside.jpg

The eBay guy said that unit didn't work when he tried it, but I was wondering if I could cannibalise both to make a good one. When I plug in the replacement one, as described, it didn't work either: the PB5300 still makes about 2Hz clicking noise as I suspect it keeps cutting out.

I was wondering, would a UK member with a working PB5300 be willing to loan me their power board so that I can test whether the problem is just with the power board or whether it's with the rest of the PB5300 too? I'm happy to pay postage (obviously).

-cheers from Julz
 

Franklinstein

Well-known member
The PowerBook 500 series w/100MHz PPC upgrade isn't too far off the mark of performance for a 5300, and that's partially because the 5300's architecture basically adapted the PPC bus to old '030-based chips to shorten development time and keep costs down, but also to share chips with the Duo 2300. The 500 series did the same (it adapted the '040 bus to an '030 bus in part to keep costs down by reusing old chips, but also so they could use the same chips in the Duo 280 which was required to use the '030 bus because that's what the Docks used). Basically, if you're looking for a reason that the '040 and early PPC PowerBooks were kind of underwhelming, blame the Duo line.

If I had a choice, I'd prefer a 500 series w/PPC upgrade over a 5300 for a variety of reasons but mostly because the 500 had more built-in features and had dual-battery support. The only real advantage the 5300 has is more RAM (up to about 64MB vs. the 500's 36MB) but unless you were really wealthy at the time nobody was rocking more than 32MB anyway.

The 5300 had its slightly squished dimensions because Apple execs at the time wanted the 5300 to be, paraphrased, "the smallest 'full-featured' laptop on the market." Of course, 'full-featured' apparently meant no CDROM support (they were supposed to have optional 3.5" CDROM drives but those were never released publicly, and besides, who used 3.5" CDs?), no modem, no Ethernet, and only a single battery, so I'd say they missed the mark.

The 1400 was internally identical to the 5300, it just had a different case and a swappable CPU. The 1400 was originally designed with dual-battery support but it seems Apple didn't want competition with the 3400, which was the more expensive "pro" PowerBook but did not have dual-battery support, so they dropped it. I'm not sure if it could be added back in (the pads are still on the logic board) but maybe a fun project for someone if it's possible.

Anyway the most common problems for a 5300 are the power jack, hinges, and display caps (especially on the 5300ce). These aren't 5300-exclusive failures (the WS/PDQ PowerBooks also had problems with power jacks coming away from the board, and hinge failure, and the 13.3" displays were notorious for problems) but they're what to expect, assuming you don't also run into generic old-tech failures like battery leaks, LCD vinegar syndrome, fragile plastic, etc.
 

Snial

Well-known member
@Franklinstein,

Thanks for the replies. Now I understand. You replied to my more recent thread on the same subject and then found this one and replied to that.
The PowerBook 500 <snip> because the 5300's architecture basically adapted <snip> share chips with the Duo 2300. The 500 series <snip> '040 bus to an '030 bus <snip> costs down by reusing <snip> same chips in the Duo 280 which was required to use the '030 bus because that's what the Docks used) <snip> '040 and early PPC PowerBooks were kind of underwhelming, blame the Duo line.
Very interesting.

If I had a choice, I'd prefer a 500 series w/PPC upgrade over a 5300 <snip>
Sure. It's not my 5300 though, but a friend's, so I'm hoping to fix it and then send it back!
The 5300 <snip> "the smallest 'full-featured' laptop on the market." <snip> meant no CDROM support (<snip> optional 3.5" CDROM drives but those were never released publicly <snip>), no modem, no Ethernet <snip>
I used to have a 5300 (monochrome)/100MHz, and yes it was 'survivable'. But it did have the second display & I think a PCMCIA card with Ethernet.
The 1400 <snip> identical to the 5300 <snip> swappable CPU. The 1400 <snip> dual-battery support but <snip> 3400
These days I have a 1400c/166/56MB + FD + CDROM, it's an ongoing, fun project (starting out as a 1400cs/117/16MB + nothing)! Battery rebuild next I think & then perhaps some kind of DIY PCMCIA-arduino thing.
<snip> 5300 are the power jack, hinges, and display caps (especially on the 5300ce). <snip> assuming you don't also run into generic old-tech failures like battery leaks, LCD vinegar syndrome, fragile plastic, etc.
The power jack could be a problem.

You mean the capacitors? There’s only one on the 5300ce panel and it doesn’t typically cause any trouble.
Thanks, that's helpful.

If a UK member is willing to send me a power board, then of course I'd only be borrowing it!

-cheers from Julz
 
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