PowerBook 5300-gotchas?

[Phipli]

Thinking about things, the "best" solution would probably be a four quadrant controller, because it would give you control of voltages on both sides

 

[LaPorta]

I do rather like my G3 1400. It is definitely a fun machine. Will be even better with the hinge fix!

 

[LaPorta]

What does? I'm lost

All the battery parts (except the old cells).

 

[3lectr1cPPC]

If it's anything like PBDuos, the 3-pin package is not a BMS, just a Dallas IDPROM. The only battery management is a thermistor.

Oh really? Didn't know that. What does the IDPROM handle?

 

[3lectr1cPPC]

Here’s a photo of that board. The blue one is the thermistor I believe.

 

[GRudolf94]

Correct, blue is a thermistor. What does the IDPROM handle, you ask? Just battery ID checking. "This is an Apple battery, S/Nxxyyyyy". If that much. I've forgotten the details, can peruse my notes at some other point.

 

[croissantking]

Brilliant, I guess I could do the same thing! I'm a bit confused as to why we only need to solder them together if we've got tabbed 'A' cells, but need to spot weld if they don't have nubs? For example, is it because of the surface area on the ends of the battery preventing soldering from working (or I need a MW soldering iron?)

You can solder the bare ends of the cells but need to roughen up a bit with sandpaper first.

Or the fact that solder isn't flush whereas a spot weld is?

Yes, it’s this. The cells I installed in the 1400’s battery were originally destined for a PB180 rebuild, but clearance is so tight that I just couldn’t manage it with solder.

As it is, I think I might take the same approach as for @croissantking, since it looks like you're getting about 80% of the battery for 10% of the effort/ specialised resources and batteries of that era were pretty low range anyway. What do the connections look like from the side?

Do you mean where I’ve soldered two cells together? I can take a pic tomorrow.

And why choose Ebay, rather than RS components for new batteries, much cheaper?

I got 10x A size cells for £21 delivered. A quick look on RS shows that they’re selling a single battery of this sort for over a tenner, e.g. here: https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/speciality-size-rechargeable-batteries/0231033 . So… I’m not understanding.

 

[3lectr1cPPC]

Correct, blue is a thermistor. What does the IDPROM handle, you ask? Just battery ID checking. "This is an Apple battery, S/Nxxyyyyy". If that much. I've forgotten the details, can peruse my notes at some other point.

Ah, just a good ol' dumb battery. I have to say with how much BMS trouble I've had with my 500 series batteries, I quite prefer that.

You can solder the bare ends of the cells but need to roughen up a bit with sandpaper first.

I know you can get away with doing this, and that's fine and all, but I feel like it's a lot of unnecessary risk... You can get a workable spot welder for under $100. Especially if you're ever working with Lithium cells. "DON'T SOLDER DIRECTLY TO THE BATTERY" is written in the safety section of manufacturer datasheets for a reason.
I don't feel like it's the sort of thing that NO ONE should do per say, but I'd just worry that recommending it could lead to someone who doesn't know what they're doing lighting a fire.

 

[jmacz]

I have a fixed/restored 5300c with internal zip drive and working rebuilt battery (and working pram). Even has the power jack replaced with a standard 5.5mm jack so I can use any modern 24V charger. But it just sits there. Haven’t touched it since fixing it. Maybe I will play with it one of these days but I am more drawn to my 540c.

 

[croissantking]

Ah, just a good ol' dumb battery. I have to say with how much BMS trouble I've had with my 500 series batteries, I quite prefer that.

Interestingly, the PB1400 battery has 5 contacts, but BattID and Temp don’t seem to be connected to anything. Seems it is designed for an intelligent battery but didn’t ship with one. EDIT: I might be wrong about this, at least for the temp connection as there is a temp sensor on the other side of the board.

I don't feel like it's the sort of thing that NO ONE should do per say, but I'd just worry that recommending it could lead to someone who doesn't know what they're doing lighting a fire.

Thanks for pointing that out. I’ll add in a disclaimer in future if I bring up the idea of soldering batteries.

 

[Phipli]

Thanks for pointing that out. I’ll add in a disclaimer in future if I bring up the idea of soldering batteries.

My advice is to plan it. Use a high power iron so you can do it quickly without putting too much heat (heat<>temperature) into the batteries and work with an explosion containment pie dish close at hand so you can use tongs to drop a burning battery into the dish if it ignites. Never work with flammable materials near the batteries and never ever ever work on an MDF table - MDF burns really well and releases toxic fumes.

Do not try to put the fire out with water, it doesn't work. A bucket of sand is good containment.

 

[LaPorta]

My advice is to plan it. Use a high power iron so you can do it quickly without putting too much heat (heat<>temperature) into the batteries and work with an explosion containment pie dish close at hand so you can use tongs to drop a burning battery into the dish if it ignites. Never work with flammable materials near the batteries and never ever ever work on an MDF table - MDF burns really well and releases toxic fumes.

Do not try to put the fire out with water, it doesn't work. A bucket of sand is good containment.

Great advice…thanks for that.

 

[croissantking]

Interestingly, the PB1400 battery has 5 contacts, but BattID and Temp don’t seem to be connected to anything.

Oh, you were *just* talking about that:

Here’s a photo of that board. The blue one is the thermistor I believe.

Correct, blue is a thermistor. What does the IDPROM handle, you ask? Just battery ID checking.

Where is the IDPROM?

 

[3lectr1cPPC]

The black thing that looks like a transistor.

 

[Phipli]

The black thing that looks like a transistor.

You can't tell a transistor from its appearance - they come in standard packages that many different components can be found in.

That one is called "TO-92" and I've seen transistors, diodes, temperature sensors, serial number chips, even infra red sensors and all sorts, that come as a TO-92.

 

[3lectr1cPPC]

Good to know.

 

[3lectr1cPPC]

Another thing I just thought of - how come no one complains about performance on a PPC-upgraded PowerBook 500 Series? I mean, yes, there are some EXTREMELY rare high clocked ones, but the majority you'll find are ones that are running at similar speeds to the 5300, still with no L2. How come when you're talking about a 5300, someone always brings up how they're slow and therefor not desirable, yet people are typically way more positive when talking about the upgrades for the 500 series. Is it just because people are more likely to see something more rare as desirable? Not sure.
I can't even imagine that the fastest and rarest of the 500 series upgrades would compare well against a 1400 with L2, except for the 183MHz version which does apparently have it.

Thoughts?

 

[Phipli]

Another thing I just thought of - how come no one complains about performance on a PPC-upgraded PowerBook 500 Series? I mean, yes, there are some EXTREMELY rare high clocked ones, but the majority you'll find are ones that are running at similar speeds to the 5300, still with no L2. How come when you're talking about a 5300, someone always brings up how they're slow and therefor not desirable, yet people are typically way more positive when talking about the upgrades for the 500 series. Is it just because people are more likely to see something more rare as desirable? Not sure.
I can't even imagine that the fastest and rarest of the 500 series upgrades would compare well against a 1400 with L2.

Thoughts?

Did they sell that many upgrades? How much did they cost new?

Part of the reason is the 5300 felt like a lie, it was slower than its MHz suggested and cost a lot, so when you forked over a lot of cash, if you hadn't read an honest review in time, it was a big disappointment.

At least a 25MHz 040 based PowerBook performed like a 25MHz desktop.

 

[Phipli]

Also, while you're very used to hinges failing now, the 5300 (and 190) ones started failing  instantly. That wasn't normal at the time.

 

[3lectr1cPPC]

Wikipedia claims Apple sold around 6000, and newertech sold over 15000. Currently trying to find some prices on the wayback machine.

I get the issues at the time when new that made them so hated (just read the 5300 REA service source doc!) - I'm talking more about opinions now, and specifically on speed. I feel like people associate the 5300 with being slow while associating the 500-PPC with being fast, even though neither would presumably feel very quick, especially if you try running newer Mac OS versions on said 500-PPC.

I do feel like people undersell the 5300's performance because of how underwhelming it was on launch though. Doom is a laggy mess on my 540c, but the 5300 plays it smooth. Neither feel fast in the OS, but the improvements are there and obvious once you start running programs.