Help me ID a SuperMac card

[protocol7]

I just got my hands on a IIfx

I bought it blind and when it arrived it wouldn't power up. Opened it up and both battery holders were empty. Filled them up and now it's booting, but I'm not hearing anything out of the hard disk.

So until I can take a closer look at that, I'm trying to boot it from a floppy. I tried with a 6.0.8 system disk but shortly after starting up, a SuperMac logo appeared in the bottom right of the screen and the floppy was ejected, leaving me with the missing system flashing icon. I'm guessing it wants an extension to continue loading. Now I just need to figure out what one.

There are two of these cards installed. The best I can find for an ID is the PCB has "PWB 0007033 REV A" on the back. The card is dated 1990. Can anyone tell me what cards I have?

Update:

I tried the hard disk on my LCIII and it didn't spin up. Tried my LCIII's hard disk on the IIfx and it did. So I know the PSU is OK (phew!).

 

[protocol7]

Here's a few pics. I don't think I need a driver to get the system to boot now. Think I just messed something up. But I'd still like to find out what these cards are and what they can do.

The pics are kinda big so I won't embed them.

The first card (beside the PSU) has what looks like a socketed ROM near the nubus connector. You can see it clearly in the second picture:

http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/9127/cimg2669v.jpg

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/5484/cimg2668m.jpg

The second card is identical except it doesn't have a ROM:

http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/1614/cimg2670.jpg

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Go to the Peripherals Links Project in the Peripherals Forum and look for the DeclROM spelunking howto.

Short version: Download the Gauge Series from gamba and run SlotInfo to find out what the Declaration ROM tells the CPU about the function/identity is of any installed cards.

 

[protocol7]

Will do. But without a booting IIfx I can't try that just yet. And it's the only nubus Mac I have.

 

[Byrd]

I've always got my obscure nubus graphics card info from this LowEndMac page:

http://lowendmac.com/video/index.html

JB

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

First thing, pull out that second card with no DeclRom installed in the socket . . . that thing'll cause a system hang for sure! :approve:

It looks like some fumble fingered software type (just kidding! [] ]'> ) borked that chiplet underneath the EPROM while prizing it from that end of its Socket with an overly large screwdriver and waaay too vigorous a twisting and prying motion from just one end.

The Name, Rev & FirmWare Release of those cards was undoubtedly on the sticker that same twit pulled off your naked EPROM.

Lets hope it wasn't removed and re-installed . . . :

 

[protocol7]

Yeah I was wondering about that second card. So you reckon it's damaged goods then? The guy I got it off said the Mac was working when it was put into storage years ago. What do you mean "lets hope it wasn't removed and reinstalled"?

From all my fooling around testing so far it seems to make little difference whether I have the second card in or not. The IIfx will still only go so far. I think I'm facing SCSI voodoo courtesy of the dead internal drive, but a friend is calling around later with a multimeter so we'll check out the board and PSU in detail then.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Well & Truly BORKEN! :-/

Fumble-fingers may have borked the IC under/in-betwixt the ROM Socket legs of the "good" card too. :

Given the missing label/exposed E window of that EPROM, some firmware hacker may have been trying to mess with the DeclROM contents.

However, EPROMs cost WAY MORE $ than the labeled ROM that was on the card when it shipped.

If I had to guess, I'd say they may have been trying to max the VRAM by filling that row of soldered over SIP module thru-holes. Maybe they were REALLY CRAZED and it's been hacked with a copy of the DeclROM from the High End Card. That'd be the one with the four SMT DSPs and all the VRAM SIPs implemented!

That'd make for a VERY prospect for a KnuckleDraggin'HardwareHacker™ project!

Try another VidCard or try booting it headless if you don't have one. Without a monitor, if it gets to the point where you can shut it down by pressing the power on button and hitting enter, you'll know it's the VidCard(s) whackin' your fx. If it doesn't get that far, then it's Voodoo or some other problem.

Are you using an extra terminator at the fx end of the "chain" in the setup? Early production of the IIfx shipped w/Custom SCSI Voodoo as a standard feature!

 

[protocol7]

I tried it headless as these are the only nubus cards I have. I couldn't power it off with the power button+enter.

I don't know what effect the hard drive is having on the SCSI bus when it's not powering up. The IIfx has special terminators for the internal and external buses and I have neither. I thought the 1GB drive from my 7500 would work ok and maybe have the active termination needed (according to what I read here). But I'm not so sure it does. If I boot with only the SCSI cable attached to the dead hard disk (no power cable), I get a SuperMac logo on the bottom right of the screen (with or without the second card installed). But when I tried the same with the 7500's drive I didn't get the logo.

The first time I booted it (after adding in 2 batteries) it posted and got to a "missing system" icon. I figured the hard disk was bad and started swapping out drives as well as pulling one of the gfx cards to try and ID it. It never booted that far again.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

I've been editing the post above, so re-read it!

Look for CapGoo first and then head for macmetex's store on eBay. He's got some internal terminators for sale that may have been for the IIfx. I'll test one of the low end Mac II VidCards that came in a pair of batches I glommed off eBay. You can have one for $5 + postage for your project, I'd ask for $10 if not for the hackin' possibilites of your project being so fascinating!

If what I expect to be the case turns out to be true . . . }

. . . I'll send you a much nicer accelerated VidCard freebee . . . should a very small package come my way! :approve:

Multiple VidCards/Monitors are ALWAYS better than ONE! [] ]'>

 

[protocol7]

Hmm sounds interesting alright. So you reckon that EEPROM isn't part of the card's stock config? That would lean towards some hardware hacking going on.

I checked out macmetex's site but he doesn't have any terminators right now. I googled the part numbers so I'll put them here for future reference:

Internal SCSI filter (Apple P/N 590-4516)

Internal SCSI termination Block (Apple P/N 590-4515)

According to this Apple page, both of the above can be replaced with one "platinum" terminator. If I'm reading it correctly.

I'll see how things go later with the multimeter and I'll try and check for goop too. The board is quite dusty in places and the metal inside the case has corroded in places. There's also some specks of corrosion on top of the CPU itself. Maybe a "bath" would be in order.

Thanks for the card offer too. I'll keep that in mind. On another tangent, assuming the hard drive worked before going into storage, is there any way to coax it back into life again? Unstick it in some way.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

So you reckon that EEPROM isn't part of the card's stock config?

Indubitably!

re: HDD

If sticksion is the problem:

1) Dismount the HDD from the bracket . . .

2) . . . hold it firmly in one hand on the (well grounded) metal housing . . .

3) . . . boot the IIfx to power up the HDD and give it a good thump on the top front edge of said housing with the heel of remaining hand . . .

------------------------------------------------ Black Humor/Comedy WARNING! ------------------------------------------------

. . . utilize stump in the case that second appendage should be MIA. [] ]'>

*****************No offense intended, after all, this forum WAS founded as a Playtime Military Organization!

Casualties expected, KIAs hopefully avoided!

p.s. didn't notice the location indicated in your sig. Dumb idea, but offer remains open for swapping toys!

 

[protocol7]

Hehe I'm very hard to offend

I'm not sure if stiction is what I'm dealing with here. The drive doesn't spin up at all. Not a sound out of it. I found this page which offers a few possible fixes. Banging, twisting and hairdryer-ing are the ones I can at least attempt here. I don't think there's an activity light on it. Would the "freezer" trick also work? Or is the fact that there's no sound out of it a sign of certain fatality?

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

[] ]'>

No sound at all (usually) indicates stiction.

Page you linked is correct about backing up the original HDD to the External HDD IMMEDIATELY, but dead wrong about having it work again.

About half the time I boot up my maxed out PB100 (every few years : ) I need to lift the front edge 2-3 inches and drop.

 

[protocol7]

Yeah I'm probably a bit further away that you thought. If I do end up needing parts I'd like to try and get em all in one shipment. As I got video outpur from the cards on first boot I'm gonna assume for now that they're OK.

The PSU and batteries all checked out with the multimeter. So power isn't the issue. I'm gonna try the hard drive next. Would I be right to try the hairdryer first? Seems the least extreme option. If so, do I heat it from the top or bottom (or side?).

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

No clue. :-/

Thumpology methodology = tried-n-true technology + KISS principle compliance :approve:

 

[protocol7]

Guess it can't hurt to try that then. I'm leaving it running in the background for now. One post on that page said they had a drive that might not spin up for a while. Doubt it's the case here but if nothing else it might warm up the inside of the drive a little.

Failing that, I could crack open my Classic II and try it's floppy and hard disk. Closer vintage than my 7500.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

I think I've got the same card somewhere around here . . .

 

[protocol7]

I tried rapping the top of the drive a few times while it was running in the IIfx. Didn't seem to jolt anything into life. So I've just removed it from the sled and saw this on it's underside.

There's also a large nut on the underside. Any idea what that's for?

Hard drive out of Classic II yielded plain old grey screen. No improvement at all