Getting the PowerBook 180 online via LocalTalk Bridge

[LimeiBook86]

So I have a PowerBook 180 running System 7.1 with OpenTransport 1.1.2 installed. It works great, I want to try and get this one online, just for fun.

So I have a Macintosh Performa 6115CD with System 7.6 on it and OpenTransport 1.1.2 installed along with LocalTalk Bridge installed. My plan was to connect the PowerBook and Performa using an Apple serial cable via the printer ports, and use the software to share the Performa's ethernet connection to the PowerBook.

For some reason this just doesn't seem to work. The computers can see each other fine if File Sharing is turned on. I don't know if the Performa has a proper connection to the internet. But first this is how things are setup.

Wireless > [iMac] > ethernet cable > [Performa] > serial cable > [PowerBook]

Now before without LocalTalk Bridge the Performa was able to go online. Does having LocalTalk Bridge on disable internet access? Does it make it seem like the Performa isn't connected since it's passing the data onto the PowerBook?

Also what do I do with AppleTalk? I'm a bit confused. Does it need to be on or off? If it is on which port do I select it to. I've had it on Remote Only or the Modem port so it won't interfere with the LocalBridge Talk port (Which I assume is the printer port since that's where the cable is plugged in) Should File Sharing be on or off also?

I was reading online and some places say LocalTalk Bridge 2.1 with OpenTransport 1.1.2 will transfer TCI/IP traffic, but other say it won't and you need software like IPNetRouter or Vicomsoft Internet Gateway. Any clarification on this would be awesome. [] ]'>

Sorry if this is had to follow, it's just been a long night and I'm wondering what to do. Here is a quick diagram of the setup if it helps. Thanks!

 

[porter]

I think you need a MacIP gateway.

 

[IPNixon]

Also what do I do with AppleTalk?

You have to set AppleTalk on the Performa to whatever your internet connection is on; in this case, that would be ethernet. Think of it as the iMac and Performa are creating an AppleTalk network, and the Performa is forwarding the connection to the PowerBook using the LocalTalk Bridge.

 

[porter]

What TCP/IP settings do you have on the Performa?

Is the PowerBook using MacIP (ie, TCP/IP over AppleTalk which is actually IP over DDP)?

What IP subnet is the powerbook on?

What component on the Performa or iMac do you have that packs and unpacks MacIP data from AppleTalk and exchanges that with OpenTransport as IP packets?

 

[LimeiBook86]

You have to set AppleTalk on the Performa to whatever your internet connection is on; in this case, that would be ethernet. Think of it as the iMac and Performa are creating an AppleTalk network, and the Performa is forwarding the connection to the PowerBook using the LocalTalk Bridge.

Ok I'll try doing that, I may of not had that before. Thanks

What TCP/IP settings do you have on the Performa?
Is the PowerBook using MacIP (ie, TCP/IP over AppleTalk which is actually IP over DDP)?

What IP subnet is the powerbook on?

What component on the Performa or iMac do you have that packs and unpacks MacIP data from AppleTalk and exchanges that with OpenTransport as IP packets?

The Performa has a manual IP address connecting using Ethernet. I have two disk drives in the Performa, if I use a manual address I'm unsure of the connection in System 7.6, however if I boot into Mac OS 8.6 and set TCI/IP to DHCP I get an address immediately. The PowerBook only has one connection option "AppleTalk (MacIP)", and I connect to it selecting "MacIP Manually".

Ok on the PowerBook - System 7.1 - AppleTalk is set to the Printer port and is turned on. It has a manual IP address typed in via TCI/IP control panel, set to AppleTalk (MacIP). There is no subnet field to type in.

On the Performa - Mac OS 8.6 - AppleTalk is set to the Ethernet port and is turned on. It has a manual IP addressed tped in via TCI/IP control panel, set to Ethernet. No subnet is typed in the field.

I know LocalTalk Bridge is said to work only on up to System 7.6, so I'm going to reboot the Performa to 7.6 and try and repeat the steps. However it's difficult to see if it's connected to the iMac (the internet) since Internet Explorer 2 keeps crashing.

 

[Charlieman]

MacIP encapsulates TCP/IP in AppleTalk packets for transmission over LocalTalk or similar cabling Open Transport can perform the MacIP packing/unpacking on your PowerBook and on your Performa 6115.

However, you'll need some extra software on the Performa 6115 to route the unpacked MacIP packets from the serial interface to the ethernet interface. IPNetRouter is a popular solution, but a bit expensive. All of the other software alternatives have been discontinued. Hardware routers (eg GatorBox or FastPath) are an even better solution but are hard to find nowadays.

 

[porter]

Hardware routers (eg GatorBox or FastPath) are an even better solution but are hard to find nowadays.

I use a NetBSD box to this with a home rolled program.

 

[LimeiBook86]

Oh? Cool [8D] Any details on that would be cool. Too bad all the software methods are either expensive or non-existent. Thanks so much for all the information though!

I just talked to a friend who has an Asante SCSI to Ethernet adapter I can use. So that's one solution, and this way it won't require me to be tethered to the Performa, but for now I guess I'm a bit stuck without the extra software.

 

[porter]

Any details on that would be cool.

I have netatalk providing the NBP, and use a home grown program to do the MacIP gateway translation between DDP over ethenet using AF_APPLETALK/SOCK_DGRAM sockets, and IP using a child process which I communicate with using SLIP (over a pair of interprocess pipes, not a real serial line).

The child SLIP process can either just be a simple slattach program, or in my case, I use a SLIP to PPP translator and which then hooks into a pseudo-terminal using pppd to get the packets into the heart of the NetBSD IP router.

 

[LimeiBook86]

Neat setup you have there! [] ]'>

I downloaded a demo of IPNetRouter - any tips on setting this up to share the connection? I believe it conflicts with LocalTalk Bridge so I had to disable that.

Currently I have the Performa running OS 8.6 and it surfs the web fine, AppleTalk is set to Ethernet. PowerBook's AppleTalk is on the Modem Port (which is wired to the Modem port on the Performa).

I found this guide about LocalTalk bridging connections using IPNetRouter 1.6.8 but I think they're trying to do something different.

Any tips would be awesome! Thanks so much guys. ;D

Update! Got the machine up and running via the Asanté EN/SC adapter, runs fine online with Internet Explorer 2.1 [] ]'>

 

[thinkdifferent]

I own a Powerbook 180 as well. Believe it or not, I actually need to put some files online. Is there an adapter I can get for the old modem port? Any help would be appreciated! :b&w:

 

[porter]

A mac serial port to rs232 and MacPPP or OT/PPP would help.

 

[thinkdifferent]

Thanks, I'll let you know if I get it to work. :b&w:

 

[thinkdifferent]

My plan was to connect the PowerBook and Performa using an Apple serial cable via the printer ports, and use the software to share the Performa's ethernet connection to the PowerBook.
For some reason this just doesn't seem to work.

1. Do you think you could connect the Powerbook directly to the internet, maybe with an old adapter?

2. You would need apple talk on if you wanted to share an ethernet connection.

 

[porter]

Sorry if this is had to follow, it's just been a long night and I'm wondering what to do. Here is a quick diagram of the setup if it helps. Thanks!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacIP

Does Mac OS 10.5 actually have AppleTalk? I thought Apple were going to drop it.

If you have AppleTalk on your Mac OS X box you need a MacIP to IP gateway on the Mac OS X box.

If you were keen to compile and test code (I don't have an Intel Mac OS X box) I could send you the source to the components I use.

 

[thinkdifferent]

My MacBook running Mac OS X 10.5.4 does not have Apple Talk.

 

[porter]

No Mac-IP gateway for you there then. You need to somehow put one on the performa.

 

[thinkdifferent]

I was mistaken... Apple Talk can be found in the advanced tab of the network...

 

[LCGuy]

Thats AFP, its a version of AppleTalk that runs over IP, and is incompatible with AppleTalk on older Macs.