G5 Towers, USB cards, Deep Sleep issues and KP'ing

[coius]

My friend got my old G5 tower some time ago with the following specs:

Dual Processor 1.8Ghz G5

6GB DDR-3200 RAM

1TB HDD, GeForce 5xxx Series (Can't remember) with ADC/DVI

Wifi/BT

and a USB 2.0 Belkin card with NEC Chipset.

Since a year ago, he has been complaining that he has had kernel panicking, sleep issues and the like

I pulled the USB card after reading about deep sleep and some USB cards not liking it. And I have run ram tests. It may be my techtool pro disc, but when I did a 15-minute RAM test, the system paused at 9 minutes left (6 having been completed) and the fans started ramping up to max. It got stuck on the Marching Inversions or something.

It doesn't do it on the 1 minute, and the 15 minute is the next up. I know i am not supposed to pull the processors, due to the fact I can destroy them, so that right there is right out for doing that. I have dusted out the machine, etc... and I checked the caps on the machine and the power supply. I have reset PRAM. No hardware looks bad, I got the system pretty dust free. all the fans work, etc... It seems the RAM should be good, but I am not sure after it froze.

What do I need to take as steps in determining what's going on? Preferably a software tool approach. I am already using techtool pro, and it seems all is well, but I still have freezing issues. Is there a way to check the CPUs/Stress Test the CPUs to see if that's the issue?

 

[BGoins12]

First thing, check to see if all the memory modules are seated properly, and that they are low density chips. They can be identified by looking at them.... they will have 8 chips on each side. If there are only chips on one side of the module, it's high density and they won't work properly. (I'm sure you know all this, just want to be sure) Then run the test again.

If that doesn't solve it, then remove all the RAM installed and install some known working RAM modules in it and rerun the test. With those, just make sure it's Low density (double sided) memory. I'd put at least 512 or a gig in it as a pair (or more), and move it around after every test to test all the slots.

I do remember vaguely that my friend's G5 would ramp the fans up before KPing.... his problem was a bad stick of RAM. But then again, it could be anything with the G5s.... some models seem to be a bit on the flaky side.

 

[beachycove]

What OS? My dual 1.8 crashed running Leopard but was rock solid running Tiger. I have just replaced it with a dual 2.3 because the 1.8 was bashed in shipping to me.

USB irregularities are a known crasher on the G5s (e.g., unplug and plug in a keyboard and you are asking for trouble on some of the more delicate examples of the machines).

CPU temperatures can be brought down significantly by renewing the heatsink compound (Arctic Silver, or whatever). That is worth trying. Takes about 40 mins. and a stiff drink for courage.

Check the RAM, as has been said. Get the relevant service diagnostics disk (which is out there) and cycle the utility for a couple of hours to check the RAM. You'll also need it if you renew the heatsink compound. Thermal calibration works wonders on a G5.

 

[mac2geezer]

I have a somewhat similar issue with my DC 2.3 G5, ie, occasional KP's. TechTool Supreme detects no problem with the CPU or Ram. I've tried ASD 2.5.8 but of course that version does not work on the DC machines.

So, does anyone have ASD 2.6.3? I've Googled it and there are versions out there, at a price, (see http://www.uniquewarez.com/non_windows_softwares/54-apple_service_diagnostic_2_6_3_test_your_apple_hardware.html) for example. I'm willing to pay a bit for a copy but not willing to sign up for monthly hits to the wallet like those guys want.

 

[mcdermd]

Check your PMs.

 

[coius]

Is there a tool out there that I can monitor the temp of the G5 CPUs? preferably free. I need to run some tests and see what temps I am hitting.

What is the respective range the PPC 970's should run at?

Also, in respect to the OS, it's run both Tiger and Leopard. Right now, it's running Leopard. It seems I solved the sleep issues by pulling the USB 2.0 card. that should fix it. I will just advise my friend to use a powered up than the USB card.

Any guides (on iFixit) or whatnot for pulling the CPU heatsinks? Mind you, when I checked the PSU. I checked through the grilled area where I shown a light to see if there was any goo, especially at the back. I really don't want to dismantle it. I probably didn't check it thoroughly and if it comes down to it, I will do it, but i will need the calibration disc. (I might be able to find it somewhere or someone can share?)

I am fairly confident but I heard you can destroy the CPUs taking off the heatsink, almost like apple used an adhesive or something when they put the sinks on to glue them, so to speak to make the contact better. I am unsure as I only remember the rumours when the G5 was originally released. Not really sure about modern day and how much people know. I do know enough to mark the cards/something with a sticky or marker to inidicate which CPU modules go where. It's not an issue doing that, and I am confident with a guide that I can do this. Otherwise, my friend will have to do without the G5 or something. He has a mac mini (Intel Core2Duo 1.8Ghz) and a 2011 MacBook Pro (15") that he can use now. The mini runs rings around the G5 in all areas except the graphics.

 

[beachycove]

iStat Pro, a Widget, would do it, or Temperature Monitor, which will also report on the safe range, which appears to be set in calibration with Apple Service Diagnostics software from what I can see.

Piffle about destroying the CPU. It's just heat sink compound. Now, you can crack them by screwing them down too tight, that is true. So don't. But you ought to use the ASD utility, especially if you happen to reverse the processors.

If the processors run in the 48-60 degree Celsius range already, that is about as good as you'll get. If the fans are running on bust all the time, you need ASD.

 

[ClassicHasClass]

Even those numbers seem a little high. Right now on the quad, Temp Monitor reads

27.7C intake

40.2C air tunnel

51.0C CPU A Core 1

47.6C CPU A Core 2

40.9C CPU B Core 1

41.5C CPU B Core 2

Granted I run in Reduced the vast majority of the time.

 

[coius]

Beachycove, even the services manual says not to remove the CPU from you heatsink as it says doing it will damage the processor. It seems apple intended these things never to have the grease replaced. First thing I will do is test the temps. It scares me to replace the grease because people have said there are pop-rivets holding the heatsink down to the cpu daugherboard. My fear is that if I do indeed damage the CPUs, my friend will never forgive me for doing it.

I may be a PC tech, but the G5 damn-right scares me. It's such a delicate machine I fear doing too much to it will end up destroying it. I will try a few other things, but I am scared to death of those processors. Mainly as it's so easy to (word redacted) them up beyond any repair

 

[beachycove]

I have done two machines with no ill effects, reducing the temperatures in one case by nearly 10°C.

The liquid cooling seems to work well. Wow. I have used three air-cooled dual G5s, and they all do get up to those numbers. My dual 2.0GHz at work is constantly in the high 50s or low 60s, meaning the fans do kick in. Both the decommissioned dual 1.8 and the new-to-me run cooler and more quietly, for some reason.

Pop rivets! Now, if it were a liquid cooled 2.7, you really would want to go carefully, but I assure you there aren't any pop rivets in a 2004 G5 to worry about -- except maybe the plastic one on the cover inside the plastic door! Further inside, once you get it apart, there are screws holding the heatsinks to the processor boards, located at the edges, and there is ordinary heatsinks compound. That's it.

Yes, I know what the service manual says, but Apple service manuals also say that on no account should you install a RAM chip in a Classic II, or whatever. I was nervous, too, but I began with a G5 that did not work and figured I had nothing to lose. I fixed it so that it worked fine (under Tiger). That worked so well, I did the same when another machine came my way, though with no discernable benefit in the second case. I am now on my third G5 tower, and it works fine, so I propose to leave it as is.

There are lots of discussions elsewhere about disassembly that confirm the approach taken. However, it's not yours, and the, 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' maxim would seem a useful one in this case. You have sorted the USB issue, which is the main thing.

However, you can buy a replacement processor these days for a song, were things to go haywire....

 

[mac2geezer]

I don't know anything about removing the CPU heatsinks, but disassembling the G5 is straight forward. You need a long Torx (T2 as I recall) to remove the CPU modules and the various cable connectors seem to be a bit delicate but with care there should be no problems.

The Apple Service Diagnostics 2.5.8 is the relevant test suite and it's available on the net.

I'm no computer tech but it only took 2 hours to disassemble and reassemble a dual processor machine the first time I tried, so you should have no problems.

Good luck!