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Can Anyone Provide Any Information On This "Prototype" Power Macintosh 6360?

Fizzbinn

Well-known member
That IDE drive would work (of course you'd need to format it which would erase the Windows 98 install). Is your BlueSCSI an internal 50 pin version? You could use that in place of the CD drive but that might make installing a new Mac OS harder ...unless you use a HDA image preloaded with an OS.
 

jajan547

Well-known member
That IDE drive would work (of course you'd need to format it which would erase the Windows 98 install). Is your BlueSCSI an internal 50 pin version? You could use that in place of the CD drive but that might make installing a new Mac OS harder ...unless you use a HDA image preloaded with an OS.
I have the internal blue SCSI, yes. What would be the best way to make that all work?
 

Fizzbinn

Well-known member
To use the IDE drive:
  1. Plug it in where you removed the disk that came with it.
  2. Download and burn a CD-ROM for a Mac OS installer (like the first link here foe 8.0: https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/macintosh-system-81-mac-os-81). This of course assume you have a computer with DVD/CD burner and blank CD-R discs...
  3. Turn the computer on, put the disc in the in CD drive and it should boot from it as the "new" IDE HD won't have a Mac OS on it.
  4. Run Drive Setup to Initialize the IDE drive.
  5. Run the OS installer and reboot.
The BlueSCSI might be harder, the only internal SCSI drive slot is for the CD-ROM and it uses a special edge connector adapter on the drive's 50-pin SCSI connector. Its mechanically design for the SCSI CD-ROM drive and I don't think there'd be an easy way to physically plug in the BlueSCSI. I guess you could try to use the edge connector adapter and internal SCSI ribbon cable if you have one. Another thought would be to put the internal BlueSCSI in an external SCSI enclosure if you have one and then connect it to the external SCSI port.

If you managed to get it connected you can get a Mac OS 8.0 full install image that will work with BlueSCSI here:
You'd need to put it on the SD card for you Blue SCSI via a modern machine and rename the file appropriately.
 

jajan547

Well-known member
To use the IDE drive:
  1. Plug it in where you removed the disk that came with it.
  2. Download and burn a CD-ROM for a Mac OS installer (like the first link here foe 8.0: https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/macintosh-system-81-mac-os-81). This of course assume you have a computer with DVD/CD burner and blank CD-R discs...
  3. Turn the computer on, put the disc in the in CD drive and it should boot from it as the "new" IDE HD won't have a Mac OS on it.
  4. Run Drive Setup to Initialize the IDE drive.
  5. Run the OS installer and reboot.
The BlueSCSI might be harder, the only internal SCSI drive slot is for the CD-ROM and it uses a special edge connector adapter on the drive's 50-pin SCSI connector. Its mechanically design for the SCSI CD-ROM drive and I don't think there'd be an easy way to physically plug in the BlueSCSI. I guess you could try to use the edge connector adapter and internal SCSI ribbon cable if you have one. Another thought would be to put the internal BlueSCSI in an external SCSI enclosure if you have one and then connect it to the external SCSI port.

If you managed to get it connected you can get a Mac OS 8.0 full install image that will work with BlueSCSI here:
You'd need to put it on the SD card for you Blue SCSI via a modern machine and rename the file appropriately.
Is there any good IDE to SD solutions you'd recommend. I can always overnight one.
 

jajan547

Well-known member
Ok should be here Monday, in the meantime do you happen to have a remade image of Mac OS 8 that I can just copy and paste into the SD card?
 

Fizzbinn

Well-known member
Ok should be here Monday, in the meantime do you happen to have a remade image of Mac OS 8 that I can just copy and paste into the SD card?

No, this wouldn’t be like how a BlueSCSI disk image works. Someone else might know a way but I think you’d need to install on the new disk (actually an SD card in the adapter) like how I described above if you used a real IDE spinning disk drive.
 
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Phipli

Well-known member
Ok should be here Monday, in the meantime do you happen to have a remade image of Mac OS 8 that I can just copy and paste into the SD card?
You can do that if you restore an image to the whole SD card (not just put an image file on one - I was experimenting doing that but forget how far I got and how usable it is! Link here anyhow, not set up to test sorry.


Looking forward to see the outcomes of the Alpha 7.7 and what speed it is running at. System Profiler will tell you what speed it is running at (see attached for the older and newer styles). Might also be interesting to dump the ROM.
 

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jajan547

Well-known member
You can do that if you restore an image to the whole SD card (not just put an image file on one - I was experimenting doing that but forget how far I got and how usable it is! Link here anyhow, not set up to test sorry.


Looking forward to see the outcomes of the Alpha 7.7 and what speed it is running at. System Profiler will tell you what speed it is running at (see attached for the older and newer styles). Might also be interesting to dump the ROM.
Thank you so much I’m gonna try this out tommorow when it arrives with Mac OS 8 or 7.5, not sure which yet. As for the ROMS I believe they are soldered to the board but I’ll double check.
 

Phipli

Well-known member
Thank you so much I’m gonna try this out tommorow when it arrives with Mac OS 8 or 7.5, not sure which yet. As for the ROMS I believe they are soldered to the board but I’ll double check.
If it doesn't work, let me know. I know how to make sure it does, but am not sure if the download... was made after I workes that out :)

Basically I hope I have the IDE driver on the image and not the SCSI one by accident... but it is two years since I was messing with it and didn't have a machine on hand to test at the time. I do now, as I have a 630 and a 6500 to hand :)
 

jajan547

Well-known member
If it doesn't work, let me know. I know how to make sure it does, but am not sure if the download... was made after I workes that out :)

Basically I hope I have the IDE driver on the image and not the SCSI one by accident... but it is two years since I was messing with it and didn't have a machine on hand to test at the time. I do now, as I have a 630 and a 6500 to hand :)
Ok so very interesting news here. Yes the 7.7 image found does boot on this system, and no the original version is different than what was in this originally (No debugger system). What I've found is that the 7.7 image @slomacuser found hates to boot on a 68030, it literally would not boot on any of my 68030 machines. I did get it to boot on only one of my 68040 machines which was a Quadra 950 and no others. However, when I say boot I mean load the background screen with no icons and then immediately lock up the whole machine. So it does appear that 040 based machines can run this but you'd need to figure out how and what enablers may be needed and I do not recommend it. I only got the image @slomacuser provided to work in sheepsaver and Basilisk ii. As far as upgrading directly to 7.7 from a current image it appears you'd need to have 7.6.1 to install 7.7 or at least this version. I have no other PPC machines except this prototype and with the IDE to SD that @Phipli linked and using Balena Ethcer I was able to successfully make an image and boot it on the Prototype with added programs like Tattle Tech and well the information is quite interesting. It appears to be truly running at 240MHz and also the ROM does appear to match the 6360/6400 ROM ID but it must be configured differently I'm assuming. Also it's recognized as a Power Macintosh 6360/6400 (no variation in which it is, not sure if this is how it usually is for these two computers). I have taken some photos which are below showing what Tattle Tech told me and also I've included my SD to IDE setup (ugly I know). Lastly I also added photos of the Prototype AAUI Comm card Internet Adapter. I'm also under the suspicion that 7.7 likes to solely boot on machines that meet weird criteria such as this one hence why other machines have compatibility issues booting 7.7.
 

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Phipli

Well-known member
Ok so very interesting news here. Yes the 7.7 image found does boot on this system, and no the original version is different than what was in this originally (No debugger system). What I've found is that the 7.7 image @slomacuser found hates to boot on a 68030, it literally would not boot on any of my 68030 machines. I did get it to boot on only one of my 68040 machines which was a Quadra 950 and no others. However, when I say boot I mean load the background screen with no icons and then immediately lock up the whole machine. So it does appear that 040 based machines can run this but you'd need to figure out how and what enablers may be needed and I do not recommend it. I only got the image @slomacuser provided to work in sheepsaver and Basilisk ii. As far as upgrading directly to 7.7 from a current image it appears you'd need to have 7.6.1 to install 7.7 or at least this version. I have no other PPC machines except this prototype and with the IDE to SD that @Phipli linked and using Balena Ethcer I was able to successfully make an image and boot it on the Prototype with added programs like Tattle Tech and well the information is quite interesting. It appears to be truly running at 240MHz and also the ROM does appear to match the 6360/6400 ROM ID but it must be configured differently I'm assuming. Also it's recognized as a Power Macintosh 6360/6400 (no variation in which it is, not sure if this is how it usually is for these two computers). I have taken some photos which are below showing what Tattle Tech told me and also I've included my SD to IDE setup (ugly I know). Lastly I also added photos of the Prototype AAUI Comm card Internet Adapter. I'm also under the suspicion that 7.7 likes to solely boot on machines that meet weird criteria such as this one hence why other machines have compatibility issues booting 7.7.
The System 7.7 install is probably just not an "install for any macintosh". Unless you specifically tell it to, the installer doesn't put all the PPC and all the 68k stuff in. Glad the disk image worked :)

Tattletech will just be getting the gestalt and reporting which machines have that one. The 6360 and 6400 both use the same gestalt of 58. https://everymac.com/ultimate-mac-lookup/?search_keywords=58

240MHz is awesome! We'll have to get some careful photos of the board to see how it is set - if it is PLL resistors setting the speed (I don't know for this board) it might be interesting for overclocks / cpu swaps for others. I wonder if this was a development version of a /future/ 6360, not the original, as its way faster. I'll have to take a look at the cpu datecode on the photo you shared.
 

jajan547

Well-known member
The System 7.7 install is probably just not an "install for any macintosh". Unless you specifically tell it to, the installer doesn't put all the PPC and all the 68k stuff in. Glad the disk image worked :)

Tattletech will just be getting the gestalt and reporting which machines have that one. The 6360 and 6400 both use the same gestalt of 58. https://everymac.com/ultimate-mac-lookup/?search_keywords=58

240MHz is awesome! We'll have to get some careful photos of the board to see how it is set - if it is PLL resistors setting the speed (I don't know for this board) it might be interesting for overclocks / cpu swaps for others. I wonder if this was a development version of a /future/ 6360, not the original, as its way faster. I'll have to take a look at the cpu datecode on the photo you shared.
Let me know any photos you may need and I'll snap them your way. CPU looks to be 26th week on 1996 putting it in Mid to late June
 
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Phipli

Well-known member
Wait I see so we can change the CPU speed by using a 603ev and removing or adding said resistors to match. Which will be I assume equivalent in speed.
Yup, on this era of machine, the computers main bus was set at 40MHz and there is a crystal oscillator producing it in one of your photos (attached). A chip then takes this signal and multiplies it to make it faster. How many times faster is set by some small resistors. Yours seems to be wired up for 240 (40x6), and isn't overclocked because that is the CPU's rated speed :) very lucky.
 

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jajan547

Well-known member
Yup, on this era of machine, the computers main bus was set at 40MHz and there is a crystal oscillator producing it in one of your photos (attached). A chip then takes this signal and multiplies it to make it faster. How many times faster is set by some small resistors. Yours seems to be wired up for 240 (40x6), and isn't overclocked because that is the CPU's rated speed :) very lucky.
Interesting, also reading my previous post I forgot to mention that RCA input card disables all video output from the machine I had to remove it to get an image lol. But I wonder what this could be clocked too?
 
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