68K PowerBook conversion

[akator70]

With so many PowerBooks becoming useless due to screen issues, has anyone tried to use the otherwise working boards by "converting" the system into a small Mac desktop?

It seems the only major hurdles would be adapting the PowerBook display cable to VGA or HDMI, then finding a monitor that would display some of the odd PowerBook resolutions (like 640x400).

 

[avadondragon]

If anyone knows where to find the documentation on the internal video connectors I'd like to take a look at it. The external video ports use known standards and are easy enough to adapt for this purpose if the machine in question has one.

Did you know a lot of the weird computers in the Hackers movie were made using the guts from PowerBooks?

 

[akator70]

Did you know a lot of the weird computers in the Hackers movie were made using the guts from PowerBooks?

I didn't know that. Now I'll have to watch Hackers to see if I can spot them.

 

[MacUp72]

yes, someone has done this before:

PowerBook 500 series halftop mod

A while back I got a PowerBook 520c that worked but the screen plastics were in terrible shape and the screen didn't always work properly which made it no fun to use. I decided to remove the screen and convert it into a halftop using an external monitor. I could not find any information on if...

68kmla.org

 

[akator70]

Thanks for finding that, it didn't show up when I searched.

I knew about using an external display with the models equipped with that capability, but the 100 / 140 / 145 / 170 don't have that feature. It would be nice to "salvage" those machines with by adapting the LCD video output to an external display. By adapting that LCD video output, the internals (minus battery, keyboard, and trackback) could be installed into a 3D printed case to create a small desktop that could be used with an ADB keyboard and mouse. (Another reason so "salvage" those particular machines is they can run the hacked version of 6.0.8.)

 

[MacUp72]

Keith Tilton posted this 2 years ago on reddit, there once was an external Radius PowerView device connected via SCSI to the powerbook that provided external video, a quite rare bird though..maybe theres a modern way to reproduce that thing.

also here:

PowerView - The Weird PowerBook SCSI External Video Card

I've seen this elusive peripheral referenced for years. There's a few pictures of the device and a video capture of it actually working online but I knew it was rare. I saw one pop up on Mercari for ~$40 and knew I needed to grab it. Box: Contents: Unfortunately, mine is missing the...

68kmla.org

PowerView SuperView

PiSCSI allows a Raspberry Pi to function as emulated SCSI devices (hard disk, CD-ROM, and others) for vintage SCSI-based computers and devices. This is a fork of the RaSCSI project by GIMONS. - Pi...

github.com

 

[Dogmander]

If anyone knows where to find the documentation on the internal video connectors I'd like to take a look at it. The external video ports use known standards and are easy enough to adapt for this purpose if the machine in question has one.

Did you know a lot of the weird computers in the Hackers movie were made using the guts from PowerBooks?

I've been doing a bit of research on such, and have some info

There is some documentation on the LCD video signal in these machines found within the Macintosh Portable Developer Note, these signals are the same across these machines. Bitsavers.org also has schematics on the 140/170 which include locations of the appropriate signal pins.

Macintosh Portable Developer Note
140/170 Schematics

I've been working on trying to developer an internal mod to convert these signals into a standard VGA video signal, using a Raspberry Pi Pico

 

[GRudolf94]

Save for the poorly-understood vignetting issue, accidental damage, and rare cases of grave capacitor corrosion, PowerBook panels tend to remain serviceable, i.e. they can be repaired. It might be more gainful to understand how to shove a different LCD panel in the machine for the cases not such.

 

[avadondragon]

There is some documentation on the LCD video signal in these machines found within the Macintosh Portable Developer Note

So that's where they hid it! I never thought to look in the Portable's developer notes. Didn't occur to me that they would be the same. I've never had a portable or wanted one so that was the one set of developer notes I hadn't looked at. Thank you so much for this hint.

It might be more gainful to understand how to shove a different LCD panel in the machine

Understanding how the LCD video signals work is crucial to adapting any new display to work with the old PowerBooks. The tunnel vision on active matrix displays is my concern. I fear they might eventually all die and we'll need a solution (assuming the baking trick is only buying us time). I'm interested in the possibility of adapting an E-Ink display interface. A PB170 with a lithium battery upgrade and an E-Ink display could theoretically run for ages without needing to be charged.

 

[GRudolf94]

LCD signals are already well-understood. E-ink is nowhere near usable for a laptop - fastest panels can achieve about 3~4fps with minimal redrawing. It also only saves power if left still, which isn't the case when used as replacement. An LCD panel itself is low power enough that an LED conversion to the backlight would probably be more efficient than the logic required to store frames drawn by the PB and push them out to an EPD.

Going to a modern TFT, be it parallel, LVDS or eDP would be better use of anyone's time.

 

[avadondragon]

LCD signals are already well-understood

Awesome! Why don't you give me a quick summary of how Apple wired up the displays on these PowerBooks and save me the trouble of digging through the dev notes then?

E-ink is nowhere near usable for a laptop - fastest panels can achieve about 3~4fps with minimal redrawing.

Damn... I was really hoping to do some high framerate gaming on my 1-bit graphics 25Mhz Laptop from 1991. Thought I might be able to run Cyberpunk or something like that on it just like those YouTubers showing off how bad modern E-Ink tech sucks with it's unplayable 3-4fps refresh rate.

It also only saves power if left still, which isn't the case when used as replacement.

Aw man most of the stuff I do on my antique machines redraws the entire screen CONSTANTLY.

Going to a modern TFT, be it parallel, LVDS or eDP would be better use of anyone's time.

Well you are clearly more knowledgeable than I. You probably know best how I should use my valuable time and energy. Adapting to a different LCD seems rather boring to me though so I think I'll work on something else. I bet the community would love to see what you come up with. I know I would.

If I do decide to do something silly and useless like adapt an E-Ink display to work with a PowerBook I definitely won't share any info about the project here. I would hate to have others criticizing how I waste my precious time - utilizing my hobbies to learn about exciting new tech that interests me. I am mortified if others don't think highly of me or my knowledge, and skills.

 

[akator70]

So if a knowledgeable and generous soul figured out the LCD signal and adapter requirements, we could potentially have:

• an adapter for the old LCD signals to modern LCDs as replacement panels
• an adapter for the old LCD signals to modern e-ink displays as replacement panels
• an adapter for the old LCD signals to an HDMI display

That's a pretty awesome bunch of new possibilities for our old PowerBooks.

 

[Phipli]

If I do decide to do something silly and useless like adapt an E-Ink display to work with a PowerBook I definitely won't share any info about the project here. I would hate to have others criticizing how I waste my precious time - utilizing my hobbies to learn about exciting new tech that interests me. I am mortified if others don't think highly of me or my knowledge, and skills.

@avadondragon - Wow. Just wow.

 

[avadondragon]

@Phipli - Getting upset and engaging with trolls is a legitimate waste of my time and energy. He won this fight because the only conceivable value of his comment was to provoke my anger and he achieved his goal. I'd rather like to see less of that in the places I chose to spend my time on the internet.

 

[Phipli]

@Phipli - Getting upset and engaging with trolls is a legitimate waste of my time and energy. He won this fight because the only conceivable value of his comment was to provoke my anger and he achieved his goal. I'd rather like to see less of that in the places I chose to spend my time on the internet.

He wasn't trolling you?

 

[joshc]

@avadondragon It seems like you may need to take a break. The other poster is not a troll and we are all here to help each other when we can. Assume good intentions rather than bad ones. The language and tone in your post isn’t great, so maybe take a step back and have a think about what you were hoping to get out of that.

 

[avadondragon]

It seems like you may need to take a break. The other poster is not a troll and we are all here to help each other when we can. Assume good intentions rather than bad ones. The language and tone in your post isn’t great, so maybe take a step back and have a think about what you were hoping to get out of that.

I agree completely. Although that was somewhat my point. I don't engage with this community often and now I need to take a break. Should I bother wasting my time coming back? I don't actually have to contribute anything to get what I need here so why bother posting anything ever? Am I too sensitive to some random stranger on the internet telling me how I should spend my time or that "LCD signals are already well-understood." Absolutely I am too sensitive. My Zen should be better. That shouldn't bother me at all but it does Oh well time to withdraw from society again. See you guys in a few years maybe.

 

[Dogmander]

So that's where they hid it! I never thought to look in the Portable's developer notes. Didn't occur to me that they would be the same. I've never had a portable or wanted one so that was the one set of developer notes I hadn't looked at. Thank you so much for this hint.


Understanding how the LCD video signals work is crucial to adapting any new display to work with the old PowerBooks. The tunnel vision on active matrix displays is my concern. I fear they might eventually all die and we'll need a solution (assuming the baking trick is only buying us time). I'm interested in the possibility of adapting an E-Ink display interface. A PB170 with a lithium battery upgrade and an E-Ink display could theoretically run for ages without needing to be charged.

Yeah, the Portable and first series Powerbook systems use the same LCD signals, so any progress on this will also be useful for developing an external video port adapter for the Portable. I plan to design my board where the Pico is installed on an external board, and the Powerbook or Portable can connect with a DB-15 cable. The Powerbook will need an adapter board installed which taps between the interconnect board and CPU, grabbing the LCD signals.

 

[akator70]

Yeah, the Portable and first series Powerbook systems use the same LCD signals, so any progress on this will also be useful for developing an external video port adapter for the Portable. I plan to design my board where the Pico is installed on an external board, and the Powerbook or Portable can connect with a DB-15 cable. The Powerbook will need an adapter board installed which taps between the interconnect board and CPU, grabbing the LCD signals.

That's an awesome idea.

 

[3lectr1cPPC]

@avadondragon - I don’t think anyone wants to see you leave. I for one would love to see an e ink screen mod done for one of these PowerBooks. Not particularly because it would better than the original screen, but because:
1. Any replacement that’s modern is good to have
2. I just think that would be a neat mod to do.