30Video: New video board for SE/30 / IIsi / more?

[superjer2000]

@zigzagjoe Does the kit support VGA external video as well? (It looks like it does from the pictures above). If you have an external monitor connected, does the internal LCD go B&W?

 

[zigzagjoe]

@zigzagjoe Does the kit support VGA external video as well? (It looks like it does from the pictures above). If you have an external monitor connected, does the internal LCD go B&W?

It does support external video, but the internal LCD will only work in mirroring mode at 640x480. Higher resolutions will only be shown if the external VGA is detected at boot.

There's only one output pipeline so the LCD must run with identical parameters to the VGA; at higher resolutions the internal LCD is disabled entirely as the LCD can't do anything productive with higher resolution signals.

 

[MrPix]

I strongly approve of this project, but then I was the one who inspired it.

I'm amazed at how far this has come, and that @zigzagjoe was able to tackle the driver side of the equation as well as the hardware side.

 

[zigzagjoe]

Also, here's the overdue combination breakout board. It's intended to work with Bolle's riser or halkyardo's SEthernet/30 ethernet boards, and allow you to install a VGA cable as I supply with the 30Video kits. It also has an opening for a DB-15 video connector as used by vintage mac video boards. I have not been able to test the compatibility with Bolle's riser however, so YMMV.

GitHub - ZigZagJoe/Combo-Breaker: Combination Breakout board for MacSE/30 / IIsi: VGA + DB15 + Ethernet (Bolle or SEthernet)

Combination Breakout board for MacSE/30 / IIsi: VGA + DB15 + Ethernet (Bolle or SEthernet) - ZigZagJoe/Combo-Breaker

github.com

I'd recommend white solder mask if having it made at JLC.

(Rear)


(Front)

 

[zigzagjoe]

Also, here's the overdue combination breakout board. It's intended to work with Bolle's riser or halkyardo's SEthernet/30 ethernet boards, and allow you to install a VGA cable as I supply with the 30Video kits. It also has an opening for a DB-15 video connector as used by vintage mac video boards. I have not been able to test the compatibility with Bolle's riser however, so YMMV.

GitHub - ZigZagJoe/Combo-Breaker: Combination Breakout board for MacSE/30 / IIsi: VGA + DB15 + Ethernet (Bolle or SEthernet)

Combination Breakout board for MacSE/30 / IIsi: VGA + DB15 + Ethernet (Bolle or SEthernet) - ZigZagJoe/Combo-Breaker

github.com

I'd recommend white solder mask if having it made at JLC.

(Rear)
View attachment 81870

(Front)
View attachment 81871

Unfortunately, I've heard this isn't working with Bolle's riser. I don't have one in order to troubleshoot it, however. YMMV

------------------------------------

In other news I've been working with @retro apple mods in order to adapt his acrylic "CRT" front to work with my LCD kit panel/mounting. A different LCD bracket needs to be installed on the LCD panel in order for it to work, but it's not super difficult. You can send him a DM if you're interested!




(pretend the red is clear, and you get the idea)

 

[zigzagjoe]

Also, here's the overdue combination breakout board. It's intended to work with Bolle's riser or halkyardo's SEthernet/30 ethernet boards, and allow you to install a VGA cable as I supply with the 30Video kits. It also has an opening for a DB-15 video connector as used by vintage mac video boards. I have not been able to test the compatibility with Bolle's riser however, so YMMV.

GitHub - ZigZagJoe/Combo-Breaker: Combination Breakout board for MacSE/30 / IIsi: VGA + DB15 + Ethernet (Bolle or SEthernet)

Combination Breakout board for MacSE/30 / IIsi: VGA + DB15 + Ethernet (Bolle or SEthernet) - ZigZagJoe/Combo-Breaker

github.com

I'd recommend white solder mask if having it made at JLC.

Stupid short edit threshold. The combo breaker as currently posted on github WILL NOT work with the bolle riser and SHOULD NOT BE USED unless these pins are removed (will prevent LEDs from working).

 

[zefrenchtoon]

View attachment 83087
(pretend the red is clear, and you get the idea)

The cat is clear too

 

[Hollie]

Got my kit today, so let's get it installed.
View attachment 2025-03-27 17.15.47.jpg

First step: remove everything that's screen related; CRT and analogue board.
View attachment 2025-03-27 17.56.31.jpg

New LCD panel. I have an optional extra; an acrylic lens that I got from @retro apple mods via his Etsy shop. Worth it. Very shiny too.
View attachment 2025-03-27 18.09.32.jpg
And installed. Kit comes with four new screws for the screen, the originals aren't long enough.
View attachment 2025-03-27 18.20.25.jpg
Time to sort out the analogue board and replacement analogue board. I desoldered the fan from my original one and then the wires screw into terminals on the new board. Power supply and fan then screws to this board. At which point it can go back into the machine, which is far easier with no CRT in the way.
View attachment 2025-03-27 19.43.58.jpg
View attachment 2025-03-27 19.59.15.jpg
Cards reinstalled. I'm running a @Bolle riser/ethernet card and a Carrera040. The new video card sits on top of this, hooks directly up to the LCD panel via a ribbon cable.
View attachment 2025-03-27 20.08.23.jpg
First power on, came right to life. Used the monitor control panel to switch it over to 'colour' and 'thousands' for maximum excellence.
View attachment 2025-03-27 21.25.58-1.jpg
All put back together. Doing some Mac-ception using my QuickTake 150. I couldn't get a decent photo without screen moire, but it's perfectly sharp and clear in person.
View attachment 2025-03-27 22.06.23.jpg

 

[Hollie]

Oops, screwed up the previous post, so trying again with actual photos this time.

Got my kit today, so let's get it installed.


First step: remove everything that's screen related; CRT and analogue board.


New LCD panel. I have an optional extra; an acrylic lens that I got from @retro apple mods via his Etsy shop. Worth it. Very shiny too.


And installed. Kit comes with four new screws for the screen, the originals aren't long enough.


Time to sort out the analogue board and replacement analogue board. I desoldered the fan from my original one and then the wires screw into terminals on the new board. Power supply and fan then screws to this board. At which point it can go back into the machine, which is far easier with no CRT in the way.



Cards reinstalled. I'm running a @Bolle riser/ethernet card and a Carrera040. The new video card sits on top of this, hooks directly up to the LCD panel via a ribbon cable.


First power on, came right to life. Used the monitor control panel to switch it over to 'colour' and 'thousands' for maximum excellence.


All put back together. Doing some Mac-ception using my QuickTake 150. I couldn't get a decent photo without screen moire, but it's perfectly sharp and clear in person.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Interesting! @zigzagjoe With the flyback out of the way you can really clean up the cooling setup.

- Apple used that Neolithic metal box thing to replace the elegant, higher efficiency bypass fan setup of the SE
- print a longer, smooth, circular to square transition duct to replace that Neanderthal kluge.
- set the fan back at least another inch or two from the grille via said smooth ductwork for more efficient airflow
- additional setback distance of the fan and turbulence reduction in the transition ought to make for a much quieter, cooler setup?




edit: @Hollie nice writeup and pics!

 

[micheledipaola]

repeats to self:
no you don't need to buy this,
no you don't need to buy this,
no you don't need to buy this,
no you don't need to buy this,
no you don't need to buy this,
no you don't need to buy this,
no you don't need to buy this,
no you don't need to buy this,
no you don't need to buy this,
no you don't need to buy this,
.....
(un/luckily I don't have that money to spend right now).

With the kit and lens, this is so impressive. I hope I will make it to get one sooner or later.

Maybe a bit OT but: if I would need to find myself even more items and kits to save money for, I would say that the next project for all you genius people out there which understand electronics so much better than me, could be powerbooks screen mods / kits: powerbooks 100 / 1xx very often have dead or damaged panels, so that could be an interesting starting point...

 

[Jockelill]

@Hollie fantastic writeup! This thing is absolutely awesome!!

 

[s_pupp]

The black bezel alone does a good job of tricking my eyes into thinking I'm looking at a CRT, and so I've opted not to get a lens...at this time, at least. I can't speak for next week.

 

[zigzagjoe]

Thanks for the writeup, @Hollie! Glad these are finding such a warm reception

I've posted the bracket files for the LCD kit here in case folks want to print custom colors: https://github.com/ZigZagJoe/30Video-Support/tree/main/lcd kit

As a development update, I have 30Video variants I am working on with an eye towards maintaining my ability to keep making these in the future. Nothing particularly fun and exciting, I'm afraid, but figure it's worth noting anyways.

First is the plain 30Video card which is functionally identical to the 30Video SI and uses the same firmware. It's just a more compact version with routing tweaks. The slot-select switch has moved to the rear. It technically can be built in an IIsi version, but i don't plan to do that except upon request. So, the FPU option from the SI cards has gone away. I've been out of stock on the SI cards for a while so I should hopefully have these available soon.



Second, I am going to see if this could work: a combined LCD+grayscale card.

No new features as far as LCD support is concerned, and LCD and grayscale are mutually exclusive in use. It just means that I could build the board to optionally be grayscale capable which would properly support 16 bit color/grays (not that there's any point in 16 bit grayscale...) over the current GS card. From my perspective there's not been much use for the passthrough slot on the GS boards, and LCD connection is essentially mutually exclusive with passthrough, so it makes sense to drop it here.

 

[jmacz]

New LCD panel. I have an optional extra; an acrylic lens that I got from @retro apple mods via his Etsy shop. Worth it. Very shiny too.

I also got the acrylic lens but I have removed it for now. After using it for over a week, it was just too glossy for me. The glare was giving me a headache.

 

[CC_333]

I also got the acrylic lens but I have removed it for now. After using it for over a week, it was just too glossy for me. The glare was giving me a headache.

Perhaps you could put a matte screen protector on it to cut the glare?

As an added bonus, it ought to protect the lens from scratches, as I believe acrylic is fairly soft and gets scuffed and scraped up rather easily (proof: many used Power Mac G4s get their glossy (acrylic) plastics scuffed and scraped such that they end up not looking so good).

c

 

[joshc]

I have now had the pleasure of using @Hollie 's SE/40 with the 30Video board/colour display and I thought it was great. The colour contrast and sharpness of the display is excellent, easily equivalent to any decent modern 1080p display. The mod also doesn't look silly, in terms of, it could easily pass as something the machine could've shipped with originally. At the end of the day, I'd say it's a much more lucrative option than a Colour Classic, if you're not looking for something original. 640x480 and a reliable colour display without all the mods you have to do with a Colour Classic. Well done again to @zigzagjoe for pulling off this feat of engineering.

 

[Reasons.]

As a development update, I have 30Video variants I am working on with an eye towards maintaining my ability to keep making these in the future. Nothing particularly fun and exciting, I'm afraid, but figure it's worth noting anyways.

First is the plain 30Video card which is functionally identical to the 30Video SI and uses the same firmware. It's just a more compact version with routing tweaks. The slot-select switch has moved to the rear. It technically can be built in an IIsi version, but i don't plan to do that except upon request. So, the FPU option from the SI cards has gone away. I've been out of stock on the SI cards for a while so I should hopefully have these available soon.

View attachment 84989

Any updates on if/when these will be available? Understand it's been a dire few months for small-scale electronics manufacturing, but would be interested in one if you're able to make them.

 

[zigzagjoe]

I have now had the pleasure of using @Hollie 's SE/40 with the 30Video board/colour display and I thought it was great. The colour contrast and sharpness of the display is excellent, easily equivalent to any decent modern 1080p display. The mod also doesn't look silly, in terms of, it could easily pass as something the machine could've shipped with originally. At the end of the day, I'd say it's a much more lucrative option than a Colour Classic, if you're not looking for something original. 640x480 and a reliable colour display without all the mods you have to do with a Colour Classic. Well done again to @zigzagjoe for pulling off this feat of engineering.

Thanks for the kind words

I agree the panel is very nice; how good it looked was the entire reason I accidentally ended up executing on this concept in the first place. Incredibly sharp. As always it's difficult to take an accurate picture of a LCD panel, though, it's better seen in person. I recently took some flak on reddit for using a TN panel as some posters believed that simply wishing for an IPS panel would conjure into existence a panel of appropriate size, resolution, and interface. There is exactly one panel I found (same manufacturer, actually) near enough to the required specs and it is 100% unable to be sourced.

The fact of it is that not all panels are created equal, and are some horrid cheap TN panels out there (anybody remember cheap netbooks?) but this definitely isn't one of those. In the interest of full disclosure here are the viewing angles in picture form with constant exposure with my obligatory cat picture. It can be seen that left-right-up viewing angles are fine; not as good as IPS, but only if you're squatting below the unit gazing up at the screen will you have an issue, otherwise there's minimal color shift. This is what I was referring to in this post.

https://imgur.com/a/XDSvDc1

Perhaps you could put a matte screen protector on it to cut the glare?

As an added bonus, it ought to protect the lens from scratches, as I believe acrylic is fairly soft and gets scuffed and scraped up rather easily (proof: many used Power Mac G4s get their glossy (acrylic) plastics scuffed and scraped such that they end up not looking so good).

c

I was wondering if "smoked" acrylic might be an option, too... cut down on reflections possibly and increases contrast a little. These panels are rated at 900 nits (that's ridiculously bright) so a little brightness lost wouldn't hurt. The relative softness of acrylic is would remain an issue though.

-----

As an update, I've got the new cards in hand and working.



The HC card is mildly amusing in that it enables 16 bit grayscale if the grayscale bits have been installed on the card. Mostly I intend for these to be LCD cards though so I don't plan to populate or test that functionality unless explicitly requested. Nothing terribly exciting to say about the LTS card on the right other than it works. Same resolution support as the older SI cards and color depths (so no 16 bit color). It will be a few weeks before I make these in any quantity as I'm focusing on development to finish qualifying these cards along with the NuCF cards in order to get my ducks in a row before the wheels entirely come off with regards to the US<>China relationship.

As expected, 16 bit grayscale is silly and visually indistinguishable. I'm doing some tricks to make 8 bit grayscale work in the first place, and it definitely looks like that hard work paid off. 16 bit grayscale also doesn't support the gamma correction the internal screen should have applied, so 8 bit definitely remains the recommended mode.

8 bit grayscale


16 bit grayscale

 

[CC_333]

I was wondering if "smoked" acrylic might be an option, too... cut down on reflections possibly and increases contrast a little. These panels are rated at 900 nits (that's ridiculously bright) so a little brightness lost wouldn't hurt. The relative softness of acrylic is would remain an issue though.

That's a good point. The glass in the CRTs isn't transparent either. It's kind of this translucent grey. An acrylic lens to match that would actually probably look even more authentic, especially with a matte protector (the glass on the original CRTs isn't high gloss, either, but rather a sort of slightly frosted semigloss that's smooth and untextured to the touch).

c