SE/30 Recap - my first one!

[sos_nz]

I've just joined the community, and am pleased to announce a successful resuscitation of a sound-less SE/30.

Out family's first computer, when I was a kid, was a 512Ke back in the 1980s. We moved up to an SE with a 20GB HD and felt we'd hit the big time. Over the years, I used Macs on and off at school and university (LC's, Quadras, PPC's etc). I owned a IIsi for a few years and a Quadra 900a/v - but whilst these all moved on in their turn, I always had a soft spot for the classic compacts, so about 6 years ago purchased a used working SE/30. After a couple of months it ended out in the back of the closet - no room on the desk!

When I came to pull it out of storage a couple of weeks ago I fired it up and to my surprise (having not educated myself about such matters), there was no sound through the speaker, and only very quiet sound through the headphone jack. Some googling led me here amongst other helpful pages, and to the diagnosis of dead caps (specifically C6, in the case of the audio).

Long story short, I successfully recapped the board with tantalums. It was my first go at SMD work, but I have done a few recaps of through hole stuff previously. It was a good excuse to purchase a nice, new Hakko FX-888, which is MUCH nicer than the crappy 30w non-adjustable cheapie I was using previously. No major drama with the recap, with just one partially lifted pad, which I superglued back down (the trace was OK). I found the cut-the-cap-with-diags method to be easier and quicker - the lifted pad was when I tried the two pencil method. To each their own, I guess! I used a 1uF 35V cap for C6, since there was no 1uF 50V tantalum available locally (I do have the proper value coming in the post).

Anyway - in great anticipation, I fired her up for the first boot... and... got the checkerboard pattern - Oh no! That damn lifted trace! Fortunately, after reference to this page (http://www.biwa.ne.jp/~shamada/fullmac/repairEng.html#CheckerFlag), I realised that in my haste I'd forgotten to plug the ROM board back in. Power up again... ahhhh - the startup gong in glorious full volume, and a smiley Mac, followed about 4 seconds later by the 6.0.8 desktop. Sweet!!!

The next challenge was that the keyboard had died. After rebuilding the keyboard's ADB port (as per: http://www.sterpin.net/uk/adbkeyboarduk.htm), it works again - excepting a few single keys, so it's into the distilled water bath tomorrow. Any other suggestions or tips for fixing the ALPs switches? The traces all look good, and with PCB cleaner, several of the dead keys have come back to life - just a few more to get.

Good times, classic computing.

 

[mcdermd]

I've freed most of my stuck Alps switches by pressing down hard and wiggling gently. This along with some normal, repeated actuating has freed them up.

 

[CC_333]

Hi,

I left an Apple keyboard outside under a sprinkler one time. Needless to say, I was quite upset.

When I brought it in and dried it off, none of the key switches worked. However, mcdermd's method didn't seem to help (although they weren't stuck), although a few of the key switches began to work intermittently after lots of rather hard pressing.

I found that generous amounts of contact cleaner and a few hard presses on all the keys seemed to revive it, which was quite a relief.

As far as I know, it still works

If you can't revive it, I might have a spare.

c

 

[sos_nz]

Keyboard is fixed... I ended out lifting the lid of each of the ALPS switches which were dodgy. A gentle adjustment of the nickle plates has them working as good as new.

.... and now the internal hard drive has died. It's been noisy since I pulled it from storage, with all manner of whirs and clicks. On a couple of occasions it failed to boot, and last night it looks to have died for good. I'm now contemplating the various options outlined on the Wiki page (http://68kmla.org/wiki/SCSI_hard_disk_replacement_options). I like the idea of a CF card + IDE adapter to SCSI adapter - cheap, available and fast.

I've got a few old IDE hard drives lying around which would be good, but the IDE to SCSI adapters seem pretty pricey.

Any suggestions or experiences as to which option you'd advise are most welcome!

 

[classic]

Get dougg3's ROM SIMM

http://68kmla.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=16544&start=975#p192237

 

[sos_nz]

Curse my ignorance - but what would Doug's ROM enable me to do? I've browsed the thread (not all 40 pages, admittedly) - would I swap out my SE/30's ROM board for one of Doug's, which would provide an 8MB bootable 'disc', onto which I could install a base OS?

There are a bunch of cheap SCSI drives available locally eg.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/computers/components/hard-drives/scsi/auction-551440411.htm

http://www.trademe.co.nz/computers/components/hard-drives/scsi/auction-549874616.htm

I am assuming that these would work with a cheap SCA to 50-pin adaptor (http://www.ebay.com/itm/SCA-80-PIN-TO-68-50-PIN-SCSI-ADAPTER-/260810858398?pt=US_Drive_Cables_dapters&hash=item3cb989df9e) and a re-format by Lido 7 (http://www.ccadams.org/se/hard_disk.html) or patched Apple HDA Tools.

Would this sort of drive overload the SE/30's power supply (assuming it's in good condition)? In terms of noise they're going to be much quieter than the drive that just died (but not as quiet as a solid state solution, of course).

 

[sos_nz]

Cancel that last bunch of questions. I see from this thread (viewtopic.php?p=163030) that SCA 80-pin non-terminated SCSI drives are potentially problematic. There is a SCA-SCSI 50-pin adaptor that is a few dollars more pricey, but which has termination built-in: http://www.ebay.com/itm/SCA-80F-IDC-50M-Adapter-with-27-Lines-Active-Termination-SCSI-U320-U160-LVD-SE-/121042711117?pt=US_Drive_Cables_dapters&hash=item1c2eb5324d

The advantage of this approach seems to be a larger selection of newer and bigger capacity hard drives. Cpns: extra cost up front and ? interfere with drive fitment in the compact case of the SE/30.

I'll try to wend my way through the various options, and may just end out going for a replacement SCSI 50-pin apple drive (old though they are, the cost and ease are - for now - still a viable option).

Has anyone used the CF adapter in an SE or SE/30 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/CF-AztecMonster-CF-3-5-SCSI-Converter-Card-for-Mac-AKAI-sampler-New-Condition-/300844653893?pt=US_Vintage_Computers_Mainframes&hash=item460bbd1d45). This looks very nice, but pricey. The 68kmla wiki lists a color classic in the flash experience reports, but no older macs.

 

[nvdeynde]

Be carefull with swapping the old SCSI drive with a larger high rpm drive: the power consumption of these drives, especially during spinup is often more than the SE's PSU can handle. Best solution is the SCSI-CF if you want a larger non-stock drive.

 

[sos_nz]

Thanks for the advice. I'm waiting on a couple of options for Apple SCSI's in the realm of 500MB to 1.2GB on ebay at the moment, or a local mac guy will hopefully come through with a good condition apple 50-pin.

At the other end of the spectrum, if I do go all out, I'll probably go for a SCSI to SATA converter (http://www.acard.com/english/fb01-product.jsp?idno_no=249&prod_no=ARS-2000SUP&type1_idno=6&ino=43) for the silence and low power draw.

Speaking of silence, I've followed JDW's advice and got a silenx ixp-34-16 on the way to replace the stock noisy fan (http://www.silenx.com/quiet.fans.asp?sku=ixp-34-16).

Floppy drive is now all cleaned and lubed as per the wiki. This is fun!

 

[nvdeynde]

Unless you have a very good deal, the Acard SCSI to Sata adapter are unaffordable. I see them selling for around 250 USD.

I have used an Acard SCSI to IDE adapter with an SSD IDE drive of 8GB, SLC chips, in my Mac IIFx and the thing it bloody fast and silent.

Another option is to keep your SE/30 stock on the inside and add an external SCSI drive of 9GB for example: then you don't have power supply issues while you can use a big drive. I have a few of these and they can be easily swapped around between different Macs.

 

[James1095]

Be carefull with swapping the old SCSI drive with a larger high rpm drive: the power consumption of these drives, especially during spinup is often more than the SE's PSU can handle. Best solution is the SCSI-CF if you want a larger non-stock drive.

I was concerned about that, but I was surprised to find that the power consumption and even more importantly, the noise level of some of the drives is not too bad. There are two that I'm using, one is a Fujitsu 15K RPM drive which is a 3.5" form factor with 2.5" platters. It has fluid bearings and is very quiet and works fine inside my SE/30. The other which I'm going to swap in once I get the mounting adapter is a Seagate Savvio 2.5" U320 SCSI drive. This one is nice in that it's a 10K drive with fluid bearings and is even quieter than the Fujitsu, both being much quieter than the stock drives these old machines came with. Another perk is that it supports termination so with the $2.75 adapter you can plug it straight in without using a terminated cable. Power consumption is about on par with the old 3.5" drives that originally came in these things. The Savvio drives come in 36GB and 74GB sizes, both ridiculously large. Since partitions can only be up to 2GB most of my drive is wasted space but it's a cheap and relatively modern storage solution. As long as I can find Savvio drives for <$20 I'm not going to bother looking for affordable SSD options. If you mount them with rubber grommets to isolate the vibration, you can't even hear them over the fan.

Avoid the 3.5" 10K RPM drives though, most of them have conventional bearings and are very noisy. I have a few Seagate Cheetah 10K drives that sound like a dentist drill and they're bulky things that draw a lot of power too.

 

[sos_nz]

I have used an Acard SCSI to IDE adapter with an SSD IDE drive of 8GB, SLC chips, in my Mac IIFx and the thing it bloody fast and silent.

I'm amenable to this, given the very high price of the SCSI<->SATA adaptor. Two quesitons though:

1) Which Acard adaptor do you mean? The ones I've seen are also $200 plus (http://www.pc-pitstop.com/scsi_ide_adapters/).

2) I haven't seen too many IDE SSD drives around - got any specifics of models / availability? Ta!

@james1095. Thanks for the recommendations - I've just purchased a Seagate Savvio 10K.1 73.4 GB,Internal,10000 RPM,6.35 cm (2.5") (ST973401LC) from ebay, and a requisite 80-pin SCA to 50-pin SCSI adaptor and molex. There's a good Savvio review here: http://ixbtlabs.com/articles2/storage/savvio10k1a.html).

One seller is offering new drives of this kind on ebay, but I figure that with a 1.4 million hour MTBF, and that it's only been 7 years at most that the drive has been used (=61360 hours), there's still plenty of life left on the clock. It's also been manufacturer refurbed, apparently, which is purported to mean more than just a dust off and lo-format (yeah right!).

 

[nvdeynde]

1) Which Acard adaptor do you mean? The ones I've seen are also $200 plus (http://www.pc-pitstop.com/scsi_ide_adapters/).2) I haven't seen too many IDE SSD drives around - got any specifics of models / availability? Ta!

I have used an Acard AEC-7720U combined with a 2.5" 8GB Transcend SSD IDE drive with 2.5" to 3.5" convertor.

Even though Acard says the AEC-7720U does not support hard drives, I have got zero problems with the setup.

I don't know if it works with other SSD or IDE hard drives.

The Acard adapters I got were reasonably cheap, around 100$, but I bought them many years ago too, now they are rare.

 

[trag]

The other which I'm going to swap in once I get the mounting adapter is a Seagate Savvio 2.5" U320 SCSI drive. This one is nice in that it's a 10K drive with fluid bearings and is even quieter than the Fujitsu, both being much quieter than the stock drives these old machines came with. Another perk is that it supports termination so with the $2.75 adapter you can plug it straight in without using a terminated cable. Power consumption is about on par with the old 3.5" drives that originally came in these things. The Savvio drives come in 36GB and 74GB sizes, both ridiculously large.

Do you know which model you got? The one I've been keeping my eye on on Ebay, ST936701LC, has a datasheet which claims that termination must be supplied externally. It would be great to have a drive with termination on the drive.

I have used an Acard AEC-7720U combined with a 2.5" 8GB Transcend SSD IDE drive with 2.5" to 3.5" convertor.Even though Acard says the AEC-7720U does not support hard drives, I have got zero problems with the setup.

I don't know if it works with other SSD or IDE hard drives.

The Acard adapters I got were reasonably cheap, around 100$, but I bought them many years ago too, now they are rare.

About four years or so ago, for a while there, there were scores of them on Ebay in the $30 - $40 range. If we had only known...

 

[sos_nz]

Two steps forward, one backward!

My axial replacement caps arrived yesterday, so today I set about replacing them on the logic board. Sadly, the ground lead of the 470uFx16V refuses to budge and its pin stuck in the hole. I tried the following to get it free: applied heat (pencil tip, 420 degrees x 1 minute), adding extra solder blob, flux, hot air desolder gun - it still won't come loose. Trying to cheat, I soldered a replacement cap onto the stub of the ground pin, with the positive pin correctly located through hole.

Then fired up the power and the floppy isn't working. I just get :?: , but no floppy activity occurs at all - it doesn't try to read the inserted disc.

Two questions:

1) Does this sound like my my bodge job on the 470uF cap is to blame - is it responsible for the floppy drive?. I of course intend to fix it, and have replacement 470uF's. I hope the heat hasn't damaged something.

2) How best to remove the damn ground pin on the axials?

I'm now less enthusiastic to have a go at the 220uF axial, that's for sure!

 

[sos_nz]

Cancel that.

It's still a bodge job, with the new cap soldered to the old lead, and I'd still like to get the old cap out properly, but the lack of floppy function turned out to be a loose floppy cable [:I] ]'> (was *sure* I'd checked for such a basic thing before posting!).

Raises another question though - is the SE/30 a multi-layered PCB? Does fiddling with through hole components risk trashing the board if there are internal layer connections to get wrecked?

*Whew*

 

[trag]

Yes, it's a multi-layer board and that ground wire on the cap is probably connected to the internal ground plane of the circuit board. That's why it's so hard to desolder. You have to heat a lot of copper to get the solder hot enough to melt.

Try a higher temperature setting or apply the heat for longer. Don't force anything. You don't want to pull the grommet out of the via. But it's going to take more heat to make that big ol' ground plane let go of that lead.

There's really no harm in the "bodge" you've done anyway. It may not look very neat, but it is electrically sound. I did a similar thing with the fuse in the Apple 14" Color Plus Display.

 

[sos_nz]

Well, despite flu, adding extra solder and keeping the hakko at 450 degrees on the ground pin of the 440uF cap for a whole minute, the stub in the board still wouldn't budge. The 220uF cap on the other hand, desoldered painlessly at both ground and +ve ends. Oh well - it's now completely recapped and still functional

Have received the IXP-34-16 60mm silenx fan. Man this thing is silent, but I agree with JDW, it doesn't feel as though it moves as much air as the OEM fan (supposedly 18cfm vs 19cfm flow respectively), but it's not yet in the cage, so we'll see - perhaps that'll boost it a bit. It's a very easy hook up - it comes with a molex in-line plug (http://www.silenx.com/l.ixp-connectors.jpg) so it can be powered directly off the existing hard drive molex lead (and only draws 0.34 watts, so should be fine on the 12V line@ 0.028Amps). It's just a matter of desoldering the old fan's power leads from the analog board, which means the board can easily be returned to the stock fan in future if needs be as no wires need to be cut.

Now just waiting on my replacement seagate HD and 80->50-pin adaptor, and hoping it doesn't require termination!

 

[sos_nz]

Hmmm. Drive hooked up, powers up, spins. Not detected in Lido 7.53 on the bus scan. I suspect this is a SCSI termination issue - the cheapo 80 to 50 pin adapter I have doesn't have termination power, and perhaps the drive doesn't seem to either. I've tied various pin settings on the adapter, both 8 and 16-bit. No dice. Will do some more reading/research and report back progress.

In the meantime, here's the adapter I bought - thoughts?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/270823805821?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

Shoulda bought this one with active termination: http://www.ebay.com/itm/SCA-80F-IDC-50M-Adapter-with-27-Lines-Active-Termination-SCSI-U320-U160-LVD-SE-/111006953930?pt=US_Drive_Cables_dapters&hash=item19d887b1ca

... might buy this: http://www.trademe.co.nz/computers/external-storage/other/auction-557579301.htm

... or will look to see if the drive does have jumpered termination somewhere.

options, options - so close to a refurbed SE/30!