Powerbook 3400c Ethernet instability

[TrueNorthStrong]

My lovely Powerbook 3400c has been behaving a bit strangely since I swapped out the hard drive for a CF to IDE adapter.
I still have the original hard drive so can swap it in as needed for additional testing, but it's on its last legs.

I've installed 8.1 via emulator, and then dd'ed it to the CF card. This boots fine.
The original drive has 8.6 installed.

Ethernet connectivity on my network is spotty. When it works, it keeps working until I shutdown or reboot. After then, there's a lot of poking around in settings and rebooting until it starts working again.
To keep things simple I've manually assigning an address, but DHCP does work if the adapter works at the same time.

As I am wiring to a nearby switch, I can keep an eye on the link status LEDs to get a glimpse of what's going on. I have not yet run a PCAP, but given that in the non-working state the switchport does not even observe a MAC address I can assume that a PCAP of the non-working config will show zero packets from the PB.

When TCP/IP is active or called by a program to activate, it will go link up, send (apparently) no data, then go link down. The application will report an error, then the link goes back up again.

Of course in a working condition this does not happen. Link goes up, stays up, connection works as expected.

By "poking it" to get it to work, I mean any combination of :
- Rebooting
- Disabling TCP/IP and re-enabling
- Toggling DHCP / manual
- Switching to PPP and back
- Toggling Appletalk

Top to bottom is what I assume to be the most to least likely things to resolve it.

I did not have any such issues on the original installation.

It seems like a driver issue to me. Maybe something with the switchport having MDIX and the PB hardware not, and they're crossing lines until it randomly decides to line up. I'm guessing here.

Anyone have some tips for what I can next look for?

 

[lobust]

IME, old machines and modern switches or routers are rarely functionally reliable together. I have an old thread on here somewhere about my router causing my G4 cube to lock up after a few minutes of ethernet activity.

Why your 3400 worked normally prior to the drive transplant I have no idea. You're certain it worked properly before?

I use these with my old macs. They are cheap, nasty, low performance, but crucially are extremely basic on the ethernet side and play nicely with all my macs, even back to a Quadra 700 with a standard apple AAUI transceiver. I don't have any means of connecting anything older than that to ethernet to test.

Configure it in repeater mode and it works as a wifi-ethernet bridge.

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Feel free to access wireless network via your tablet PC, laptop, smart phone anywhere. Plug and Play. Better Stability, with great heat dissipation design on both sides, which can make sure the extender cooling quickly while it is working, improve its lifespan and the stability of the WiFi.

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[TrueNorthStrong]

I'm quite certain it did not have issues prior to the swap. This is why I figured it was driver issues, I have not been able to get it back to 8.6 for a number of reasons, and I assumed there was maybe an update in there for the underlying drivers. Perhaps not.
The reason I'm pretty certain I haven't had these issues in the past is that this is my only machine that has easy-to-access Ethernet, so I use it to grab files and copy them to floppies as needed. I don't recall such issues doing this in the past aside from the initial setup.
Then again, I had different network equipment in the past too.

I'll see if I've got a real basic dumb switch kicking around. I'd like to avoid buying yet more network hardware. I was also hoping to better understand what's causing this link flapping too, but that may be beyond anyone's abilities at this time.

 

[MacUp72]

I had similar probs with my first 3400c, it's in-built Ethernet just wasnt working at all and didint even show up in the system profiler. Then I bought a second 3400c and everything just worked, the motherboard of the first one had some battery corrosion on it, so some traces or ICs had been damaged.
But the CF Card in the working 3400c also gave troubles sometimes, regular IDE drives never gave problems. maybe it was an IDE conflict with the CD drive.
However I always use this order to rule out probs: install back the original IDE HDD, format correctly, doing a proper new install CD. Most of the time everything should work.
then switch to internal CF card, doing thew same again, formatting and installing via CD and compare.

 

[TrueNorthStrong]

I'll have to do that, despite the tediousness that will entail. Oh well!
I'll get on that test and report back.

 

[LaPorta]

Not to be nosy and just stick in my two cents, but if it is some sort of CF issue…IDE to SE card adapter works great in my 1400 with no issues network or otherwise. People seem to have odd issues with the CF stuff (my anecdotal experience). I wouldn’t think at all that there was some issue with any kind of driver if it’s the exact same stuff as you had on there previously.

 

[TrueNorthStrong]

I'm taking any and all advice since this issue is driving me nuts! So much so that I'm snagging a WRT54G so I can use my WaveLAN card instead. But it's tricky getting that going, because I gotta get the drivers from... the internet. Oy vey.

I'll admit I had no idea that IDE to SD adapters existed, even though there's little reason they shouldn't. I'm just stuck in my ways of "IDE = CF" and didn't bother looking for anything else. I'll go buy one if it's cheap and see if it's any different. Thanks!

 

[cheesestraws]

Agree, I'd try a different storage medium first. Is the switch you're wired into managed? Can you get any diagnostics out of it?

 

[TrueNorthStrong]

Partially managed. One of those dinky Unifi 5 port switches, I got it since a PoE powered switch was a more elegant solution than an AC powered one. It's not going to have much in the way of proper diagnostics.
That WRT54G is also going to serve as an older device to see if there's some odd Ethernet compatibility issues. I would not at all be surprised if Ubiquiti didn't really do a full suite of testing for 10M/half connections on their hardware. I figured an older router would at least be somewhat more expected to operate at that speed well.

 

[Mk.558]

The WRT54G is a great unit, and lasted for many years. However I had a big argument on the DD-WRT forums which basically led me conclude that the WRT54G firmware available with DD-WRT is not truely compatible with 10BASE-T forced speed and mode. It's compatible with it, and works with 10BASE-T half duplex, but it's still automatically established.

Mac OS X and Linux are the best choices for testing link speed and mode. Since netatalk is also quite solid as a file server, it may be your best choice. Ask for more details.

The only gotcha that I am aware of with CF cards is using one that is not Fixed Disk Mode enabled. Transcend Industrial series should be FDM by default.

 

[finkmac]

anecdote anecdote. i was having stability issues with one of my 2400cs. i'd randomly get lockups and then bombs at startup. traced it down to a CF card in an adapter. swapping out for a different card made all the crashes and bombs vanish.

 

[TrueNorthStrong]

So, as it turns out it was my switch. Hooked up to the WRT54G and it works consistently.

There’s now other issues, which cropped up after installing the WaveLAN drivers, but that’s probably down to the CF card being problematic.

So, if anyone has issues with Ethernet instability on their 10M only hardware, try more period-accurate networking hardware.

 

[cheesestraws]

I don't think the Ubiquiti switches are actually very good, though I haven't used them myself - going only on reports from others.

 

[TrueNorthStrong]

Seems so. I went with them because I switched jobs and had to hand back an entire stack of enterprise grade gear that I had built my network on but was only on loan as an employee. Since I already use Ubiquiti for their wireless it seemed the most reasonable quick replacement.

It’s overall pretty good for the money. It can’t compare to what I had before but that was a solid $10k in equipment…

 

[TrueNorthStrong]

With the SD card adapter installed, everything's running smoothly! The WaveLAN driver and software did not play well with the CF card installation I had. Caused the whole system to be unbootable.
I imaged the SD card to 8.6, plugged it in, and it booted up perfectly. WaveLAN installed, and I was browsing the web wirelessly faster than I would have ever expected.

Thanks to everyone for the help! While it was originally about getting the Ethernet connection going, ironically now I don't need to use it despite it working perfectly as well. Great suggestion @LaPorta !

 

[3lectr1cPPC]

The one issue you probably will run into is that larger file transfers will freeze. This seems to happen on any 3400c with an SD card installed when running Mac OS 8.5 (probably also 8.6). 7.6.1 and I think also 8.1 don't have this issue, so you can just dual-boot (or quad-boot like I've done )

 

[TrueNorthStrong]

Interesting. I’ll see about giving that a try. Any guesses as to why this is the case?

 

[just.in.time]

I had similar behavior before with 8.1 through 9 on certain machines. If I recall correctly, I had to update settings to keep TCP/IP enabled indefinitely instead of just when it thinks an app needs it. Keeping it enabled resolved my issues.

Control Panels -> TCP/IP -> Edit, User Mode -> Set to Advanced, click OK. -> Options (bottom right corner)
Once inside the dialog that pops up, make sure it’s active and that the “Load only when needed” is NOT checked.

 

[just.in.time]

Quick add to above. On my installs I’ve seen that Load only when needed checkbox sometimes defaulted as checked, and sometimes not. No idea what determines a fresh install’s behavior (or if it changed at some point between versions).

 

[TrueNorthStrong]

Oh, I suppose I should have mentioned that in the first post in terms of things I had tried. That was one of the settings I was toggling in a desperate effort to figure out why it wasn’t working.

With regards to defaults, at least in my case it is default off. If I have TCP/IP disabled and open the control panel, it gives that warning about it being off and asks if I’d like it on when closing. If I choose “yes” and check that settings area, it has it set to “load only when needed”.