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Powerbook 100 Battery Rebuild

aplmak

Well-known member
Ok... so on this board I have not seen a PB100 battery rebuild.. But I did see another forum with a solution someone did... Any help here is greatly appreciated... Any ideas on where to get a thin enough battery to work... a AAA size is just a little too big... Perhaps connect multiple flat cell phone batts together?? Also I am not sure what to use for a battery and the resistance and where to place the resistors... (duhh.. I know)... The old ones are these little rectangular black cells... strange.. probably custom..

Here is my disassembled pack.. It says that it is a 6V 1600mah NI-MH battery in my battery pack... but the other guy put a 7.2V 1000mah

PB100batt.jpg

The other guy's battery which he has a 7.2V 1000mah

battery.jpg

ANY HELP OR INPUT GREATLY APPRECIATED!!!

 

aplmak

Well-known member
I know the charger outputs 7.5v and 2 amps but that is the charger which is always a little more... The PB I think calls for 6V at 1600mah

 

aplmak

Well-known member
I am assuming each cell is 1.2v and totaling 5 is your 6v... so there are two 6v sets in the battery pack.. but to find 1.2v flat batteries... hmmm... or another solution?

 

uniserver

Well-known member
18906-Of-Course-I-Talk-To-Myself.png.c785956a82b3a95319876b60ff062ead.png


 

aplmak

Well-known member
Exactly Mike & Charles.. Sorry just thinking aloud.. But I hope this helps anyone who wants to rebuild a PB100 battery... I'll do more editing moving forward.. Lol.. Since you two are the EXPERTS.. Any suggestions???

 
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Cory5412

Daring Pioneer of the Future
Staff member
Monologging isn't necessarily bad, especially if it's thought process, a worklog, or if new information comes up before anybody else posts.

 

uniserver

Well-known member
The think is i like ya, so its not big deal... if i didn't like you i wouldn't say anything.   I like your thread.

 

electricmonk

Active member
I thought I'd resurrect this old thread rather than starting a new one, hope that's OK. I have a plan to cannibalise a PB100 battery pack so that 5 x 1.2V AAA Eneloops can be clicked in and out and recharged using an external charger. This would permit carrying extra AAA cells in the field (for those times when you take your 28 year old Powerbook out on field assignments).

Apparently Eneloops (NiMh) have a nominal voltage of 1.2V, but actually they start out at 1.45v (x 5 = 7.25v) and then settle down to 1.3v (6.5v) which would seem to mirror the range seen out there in the wild - if the original battery contained 3 x 2V cells, then presumably one can extrapolate from this discharge graph for lead acid batteries similar behaviour for 2v cells. If roughly 6.5v-5.5v is the range for the SLA batteries and the Nominal 7.2V 3rd party NiMh battery that aplmak disassembled apparently also works fine then it sounds like 5 x Eneloops (nominal 6v) would work just fine. In fact judging from the fact that the 3rd party battery pack contained 6 x nominal 1.2V NiMh cells it looks like I could install 6 Eneloops and get away with it but the idea makes me nervous. What do you guys reckon?

I expect I would have to look into the diode installation idea to prevent the SLA charger from destroying the NiMh Eneloops. That said if there were original 3rd party powerbook batteries available which used NiMh then maybe the internal charging circuitry works fine with NiMh?

leadacid-discharge-characteristic.jpg

 

electricmonk

Active member
Well, @elemenoh, I decided to take a few steps forward in my little project. I don't have a 3d printer to fabricate a dummy battery but I do have a few dead Powerbook 100 lead acid batteries so I decided to cannibalise one to make a NiMh battery pack - main priority is that the powerbook looks legit from the outside. Couldn't find any images online of what's inside the pack so decided to break out the Dremel with the reinforced cutting wheel and dissect an original powerbook 100 battery for the benefit of mankind.

IMG_1482.jpg

It appears I cut into the cells themselves rather than cutting off the top. I wondered why it smelt like vinegar and my nose was tingling. Never mind. I would have had to cut it open to remove the innards anyway.

IMG_1483.jpg

I pulled out the lead plates & totally dried-up matting and chucked them in a bucket of baking soda solution which proceeded to fizz a bit.

Now I have three empty cells and the top section of the battery completely loose. There’s a different, entirely unmolested PB100 battery in the background just to confuse you.

IMG_1485.jpg

Turns out there's actually a plastic cap on the top. When you crack it open you see three rubber caps sealing up the three cells (one is missing in photos), a couple of wires going to the contacts and a thermistor or whatever it's called - a thing that cuts off the current if the temp gets too high. With those little holes covered with removable rubber caps you could theoretically try to restore the lead acid cells to semi-working order with Epsom salts I guess. I didn’t want to because I doubt that they would ever hold much charge again even if you did manage to get them working again.

IMG_1487.jpg

My plan from here was to cut those wires, solder longer wires to them, feed them through the cell ports and attach them to a AAA battery pack. I will short one of the battery slots to make a 5-battery pack. 5 x NiMh batteries at 1.45V start voltage per cell means just over 7.25 volts. Actual measured start voltage once NiMh batteries were charged was just over 7 volts which seems reasonable if the range of the Lead Acid battery was 6.5-5.5 volts.

IMG_1505.jpg

I hacked a hole in the battery to install the battery packs, fed the wires through, inserted the bisected battery into the battery into the slot and hooked the wires up to a bench power supply set to 7V/1A in order to test it. I had to reset the powerbook power manager (http://www.jacsoft.co.nz/Tech_Notes/PP_Manage.shtml) to get it working otherwise I kept getting a "there is no battery reserve" error. But then it still wouldn’t boot from the “battery” power, only from the AC adapter! It was at this point I realised I had forgotten to re-install the battery terminals so there was an air gap. Oops.

IMG_1507.jpg

Note the 40V 3A diode to stop the laptop from trying to charge the power supply. Will install this in my rebuilt/modded battery pack.

Oh well, I'll have to resume work on this again later in the week. I’m keen to see if it works. Note that this powerbook has a SCSI2SD installed and I have left off the palm rests for testing.

So far so good though. I totally recapped it and the removal of surface mount components was greatly aided by my nice new hot air rework station. Accidentally melted one of the plastic ribbon cable sockets a bit when soldering a new tantalum cap nearby but the socket still works thankfully. The socket only latches on one side now but it doesn’t seem to have any great inclination to work itself free - will tape it up with electrical tape when I’m done.
 

The screen looks great but it has a few subtle dark lines here and there so I'll need to recap it at some point to see if that improves things. May have to actually learn how to solder new surface mount components for that.

P.S. sorry for the messy desk

 
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electricmonk

Active member
Well, I was wrong. I had actually re-installed the battery terminals. Don't understand what the problem is - when I attach the benchtop power supply, the bank of 5 x AAA batteries or my spare very dead lead-acid battery to the terminals the same message comes up: "No battery reserve power remains. The Macintosh will go to sleep within 10 seconds to preserve the contents of memory. Good Night." The message doesn't appear when running under AC power only, but it does appear if running on AC power with the "battery" connected.

There's a reference to this error message in a thread about a Macintosh portable here. I know that the PB100 is just a miniaturised portable but the solution they reached in that thread was achieved by careful testing and I'm sure there are any number of reasons why that error message would come up. Hmm.

It is a bit disconcerting that there are several errors in the maccaps PB100 reference page with respect to capacitance & voltage values. I was reasonably careful to go by what was printed on the capacitors rather than that page but maybe I missed something. It all works fine although the sound does appear to have stopped working which could possibly be connected - or not.

 
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Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
Can't believe I missed this project! Gotta read it through carefully. Right off the bat, I'm wondering if there might  be a difference in the way lead/acid appears to the sensor mechanism. Second thought would be hacking away at my (oh so very dead) VST ThinPack that feeds power to the power plug. Given enough cells to match the power adapter input, mimicking the ThinPack circuitry and hotwiring to the power input plug from the jumpered power plug assy and the disconnected from logic board battery bay contacts, a better than original setup might be achieved? Such would circumvent the battery bay sensing setup?

 
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electricmonk

Active member
That is a good idea although you would need some means of turning off the internal battery to allow you to run off mains when desired.

Thing is this problem does have a solution and it will be a logical one, it's just a question of figuring it out. Unfortunately one would need a non-dead PB100 battery to test whether the issue is the logic board or the battery itself, and those aren't exactly easy to come by.

I'm guessing it is the logic board itself - the thing just doesn't boot when only the dummy battery is connected. I suppose I could recap my spare logic board and try that. Quite a lot of effort though.

 

electricmonk

Active member
Further on that subject, @Trash80toHP_Mini, the sensor mechanism is just a switch that gets pressed when the battery gets shoved in... presumably the laptop measures the voltage of the battery but I don't see how that would make a difference.

Maybe I'll scrutinise that Macintosh portable thread again and try and figure it out.

Found the developer notes here. Here goes nothing:

http://powerbook.micahgartman.com/

The PB100 developer notes say that the powerbook 100 power manager is identical to that of the portable which is described in this document:

https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/apple-guide-the-macintosh-family-hardware

This may also be useful. Wish me luck

https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/apple-mac-technical-reference-and-repair-manuals

 
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Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
Have some great luck in this. I'm curious to see if running the PB100 off the adapter without a good battery in the bay is as harmful as trying to run the Portable with no good battery in its bay?

That is a good idea although you would need some means of turning off the internal battery to allow you to run off mains when desired.
The VST ThinPack resides between power adapter and power plug of the computer, Adapter plugs into one side of the ThinPack and the ThinPack comes with cable to plug into the PB100's power jack.

It's very late, hope this makes some sense.

 
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