25,000mAh PowerBook 1xx battery

[luRaichu]

Hi all,
I've been wanting to buy a PowerBook 1x0 for quite some time now. As of recently, I'm trying to figure out the best way for me to rebuild a battery for it. I've decided to go the route of utilising as many off-the-shelf parts as humanly possible, which means I'm going to use simple rechargeable AA's and a battery holder. Now, I want to stuff 10 AA cells inside a PB battery case, which has been talked about but barely done. With the bucketfulls of 2,500mAh rechargable Duracell AA's I proudly own, 10 cells would equal 25,000mAh which probably pales in comparison to whatever the original PB battery's capacity was (what was it actually?). From what I've seen nobody's made a 25,000mAh battery pack. Yet.

The biggest hurdle so far is the battery holder itself. There isn't a 10 AA holder for sale that is not wired series throughout and outputting the required ~6v. I've contacted a company called Memory Protection Devices that make these holders and after some slight social engineering/jedi mind trickery they'd like to custom manufacture the bespoke 10 AA/6v holder for me. They say they'll send me a free sample and give a quote for more.
Now, I could just use two 5 AA holders and wire them both in parallel, but my brain is small and idk how to go about that. But it's the most likely thing I'll do.

The most important part right now is trying to get measurements of the battery shell to see if a holder will even remotely fit in. I don't own a PB 1xx battery yet so I tried to measure some of the 3d-printed cases people've made [see attached image]. However these models import wonky into Blender and I don't think the measurements are accurate If anybody has a 1xx battery lying around I'd appreciate if you took out your calipers/ruler and measured the thing so I can compare with the size of a battery holder.

 

[3lectr1cPPC]

Duracell AA's

Are those just Alkaline non-rechargeable batteries? If that's the case, that's gonna go real bad the second you plug that thing into a charger.

 

[cheesestraws]

Are those just Alkaline non-rechargeable batteries

OP said rechargeable.

There isn't a 10 AA holder for sale that is not wired series throughout and outputting the required ~6v

Do you know what the required charging current and stuff is? Do you know what the required protection is? Unless you've verified those, this sounds more like a potential grenade than a battery...

 

[3lectr1cPPC]

OP said rechargeable.

Yes, I see that now. Thanks.

I believe there is a thermal fuse or two within the battery that should be accounted for. The battery for these is dead-simple inside though.

 

[okto]

10 cells would equal 25,000mAh which probably pales in comparison to whatever the original PB battery's capacity was (what was it actually?). From what I've seen nobody's made a 25,000mAh battery pack. Yet.

You won’t have a 25,000mAh battery. Capacity is only additive if you wire the cells in parallel, in which case you will have a 1.2V battery pack, which won’t power a PowerBook. If you connect them in series, you’ll get a 12V, 2,500mAh pack.

I say this without spite, but out of honest concern: you need to learn some basic electrical theory before you build a battery pack. You could blow stuff up.

 

[cheesestraws]

You could blow stuff up.

And to be clear, with the amount of energy in a battery, the blowing up may not be figurative.

 

[luRaichu]

You won’t have a 25,000mAh battery. Capacity is only additive if you wire the cells in parallel, in which case you will have a 1.2V battery pack, which won’t power a PowerBook. If you connect them in series, you’ll get a 12V, 2,500mAh pack.

I say this without spite, but out of honest concern: you need to learn some basic electrical theory before you build a battery pack. You could blow stuff up.

My bad, I know parallel vs. series wiring but as you can see I've made the mistake of simply calculating 10 cells x 2,500 = 25,000mAh. Using these AA's in a proper 10 cell PowerBook battery should actually yield 5,000mAh (for the whole pack, the original pack was ~2,800mAh). So far my preferred way to learn electronics is to "go off the deep end" and this is another occasional hiccup that's encountered from time to time. I appreciate your concern.

Are those just Alkaline non-rechargeable batteries? If that's the case, that's gonna go real bad the second you plug that thing into a charger.

There's actually a commercial product called "Battery Daddy" that does just that. I bought one of these and as expected, it doesn't work (well).

Mods: Please retitle thread to "5,000mAh PowerBook 1xx battery"

 

[3lectr1cPPC]

There's actually a commercial product called "Battery Daddy" that does just that. I bought one of these and as expected, it doesn't work (well).

This video from the best of The 8-Bit Guy's inactive channels comes to mind:

 

[alexGS]

My bad, I know parallel vs. series wiring but as you can see I've made the mistake of simply calculating 10 cells x 2,500 = 25,000mAh. Using these AA's in a proper 10 cell PowerBook battery should actually yield 5,000mAh (for the whole pack, the original pack was ~2,800mAh). So far my preferred way to learn electronics is to "go off the deep end" and this is another occasional hiccup that's encountered from time to time. I appreciate your concern.

We all make mistakes from time to time in the excitement
I wish you all the best with your project! I made a battery for my Powerbook 100 that uses six NiMH cells in series and a board for charging them (can‘t be charged in the machine, unfortunately, as that’s designed for 6V lead-acid). Five 1.2V cells didn’t have enough power to start the machine but six work reliably.

I used CAT5 wires (solid copper wire) threaded through the 3D-printed parts to make the contacts. This was only the first prototype, I made a mistake on the main contact pad thickness, and I still haven’t got around to making a smoother, stronger version.

It turned out to work well with only six 2000mAh cells (not the 12 that would fit in my design, the second parallel group would have extended the capacity). The machine runs for a couple of hours on the six cells with power-saving measures active.

Unfortunately the charging board is very slow and takes many hours - it would be overnight for 12 cells. That’s really what’s held me back from sharing the design with others. It would be ideal to have a USB-C power input sufficient to run the machine and simultaneously charge the battery in an hour or two - but I don’t know how. I’d have to create my own NiMH charge controller, as the boards that exist can’t cope with more than a tiny load.

At least with the other 1xx machines, the standard NiCd charging circuit should work with the battery you create.

Sorry, I don’t have a 1xx battery pack handy to measure.

 

[luRaichu]

We all make mistakes from time to time in the excitement
I wish you all the best with your project! I made a battery for my Powerbook 100 that uses six NiMH cells in series and a board for charging them (can‘t be charged in the machine, unfortunately, as that’s designed for 6V lead-acid). Five 1.2V cells didn’t have enough power to start the machine but six work reliably.

I used CAT5 wires (solid copper wire) threaded through the 3D-printed parts to make the contacts. This was only the first prototype, I made a mistake on the main contact pad thickness, and I still haven’t got around to making a smoother, stronger version.

It turned out to work well with only six 2000mAh cells (not the 12 that would fit in my design, the second parallel group would have extended the capacity). The machine runs for a couple of hours on the six cells with power-saving measures active.

Unfortunately the charging board is very slow and takes many hours - it would be overnight for 12 cells. That’s really what’s held me back from sharing the design with others.

Regardless of whether you are successful or not, I think you should share your PB 100 battery designs/project. At least people can learn from your mistakes, which is essential to any sort of progress.
Also: I see you're using AA's, you could easily just put them in a regular AA charger, assuming the battery case isn't difficult to disassemble.

 

[4seasonphoto]

Are those just Alkaline non-rechargeable batteries? If that's the case, that's gonna go real bad the second you plug that thing into a charger.

You can do that with chargers specifically designed for the purpose, and it's a great way to squeeze some extra life out of those batteries, though the recharged batteries tend to be kinda weak, and no promises that they won't eventually leak, as internal pressure builds up.

 

[luRaichu]

My custom made 10-cell AA holder has arrived.


As you can see it's 1.22 inches tall. Will it fit inside a 1xx battery pack?

 

[Phipli]

My custom made 10-cell AA holder has arrived.
View attachment 66502
View attachment 66503
As you can see it's 1.22 inches tall. Will it fit inside a 1xx battery pack?

Have you sorted charging?

 

[3lectr1cPPC]

No, I measured my pack at three quarters of an inch tall. My apologies for forgetting about the measurements I was going to get.
The pack is about 4x4x0.75 inches, accounting for the rails for the battery cover.

 

[luRaichu]

No, I measured my pack at three quarters of an inch tall. My apologies for forgetting about the measurements I was going to get.
The pack is about 4x4x0.75 inches, accounting for the rails for the battery cover.
View attachment 66504View attachment 66505

Well crap. Perhaps I'll need to downgrade and just use a 5-cell AA holder.

 

[luRaichu]

Well crap. Perhaps I'll need to downgrade and just use a 5-cell AA holder.

5 of my AAs should make a 2,500 mAh pack which is 300mAh smaller than the original.

Macintosh PowerBook 145/160/170 battery replacement

Glad to hear it's working out okay - I was a little worried that some tweaks I made to the external contact area on the battery might have messed up the spacing. People always seem to be more interested in 3D printers when they see an example of how they can print replacement / repair parts...

68kmla.org

This rebuild uses 10 AAs, from what I can see they've got wires directly soldered to the battery contacts.

Macintosh PowerBook 145/160/170 battery replacement

It is. My intent was to use off-the-shelf 1.2v NiMH rechargeables - I thought I could use 6 cells, but in actual practice 6 cells gave over 8v, and I decided to play it safe with just 5, which yeild about 6.6v. Here are some pics of how it turned out. This works, but as it's a prototype I'd...

68kmla.org

This one is an integrated battery holder and pack replacement.

What if you combined both of these? A 3D-printed pack that holds 10 cells like PB170's build. And instead of jury rigged contacts, how about the real thing? https://www.digikey.com/short/09r5p48z

 

[luRaichu]

Have you sorted charging?

The PowerBook itself can charge those AA's, no?

 

[Phipli]

The PowerBook itself can charge those AA's, no?

The original battery is lead acid, what are the new ones? Most different battery chemistries have different charge methods, for optimal charging, or functionality.

Using the wrong charger can cause batteries to leak, or even catch fire.

What research have you done for selecting the right battery chemistry?

 

[3lectr1cPPC]

This is wrong. The original batteries are NiCad. Only the PB100 and the Portable use lead batteries.
NiMH and NiCad charging is slightly different but you can replace NiCad batteries with NiMH without trouble. Not sure about the other way around.

 

[Phipli]

This is wrong. The original batteries are NiCad. Only the PB100 and the Portable use lead batteries.
NiMH and NiCad charging is slightly different but you can replace NiCad batteries with NiMH without trouble. Not sure about the other way around.

Hey, come on now, the thread is called PB 1x0. The PB 100 is lead acid and a PB 1x0. That's a little blunt.

I've been asking if they've considered how they're charging batteries and if they know what chemistry the batteries are so they didn't have an accident. I wasn't expecting pushback for making sure they were safe.

I'm not even sure they mentioned they were using NiMH!