bluerwhite
New member
@cheesestraws I'm interested in buying two. Thanks for sharing your fantastic work!
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Updated 2023-07-12: Hello, Guest! Welcome back, and be sure to check out this follow-up post about our outage a week or so ago.
Introducing (and interest check) AirTalk: Wireless plug-and-play LocalTalk dongles
- Thread starter cheesestraws
- Start date
mikes-macs
Well-known member
I am ready to order two AirTalk Wireless plug-and-play LocalTalk dongles when available please. Thanks.
cheesestraws
Well-known member
Thankyou all for all your patience! I'm now back off holiday, have found mini DINs, and have tested batch four. Huzzah! That means... it's time for another recap post!
This is AirTalk. AirTalk is a dongle that extends a LocalTalk (or PhoneNet, or equivalent) network over WiFi.
It's basically plug and play: you tell it what WiFi network to connect to through the Chooser, and then you just go. All the AirTalk dongles on the same WiFi network can see each other and all look like they're on the same LocalTalk network, and so everything plugged into the LocalTalk port of those dongles can see each other as if the dongles were joined together with LocalTalk cables.
(this is the old icon; the new AirTalk icon, by @LaPorta, is prettier, but I didn't have a screenshot handy)
It requires no software on the Mac or LocalTalk device to use it, the Chooser extension only sets it up, so it will work with things like printers or routers as well as with Macs.
You can also network with (at time of writing) the beta of Mini vMac, though I'm sure this code will make it into production sooner or later. (Though this has a few caveats, mostly around speed).
It has a serial port, where you can either plug in a printer cable to a single LocalTalk device (Mac, printer, router, whathaveyou) or plug a LocalTalk or PhoneNet box in to add it to the end of a whole LocalTalk network. It can either get its power from Micro USB or from an ADB passthrough.
AirTalk is not intended to be a highly tweakable or mysterious tool for network nerds or software engineers, but as user friendly and plug and play as I can make it. The AirTalk firmware is currently open source, and the hardware will be as soon as I get around to making the design available. It's not currently available, but for inertia reasons, rather than ideological ones.
So much for the sales bumf, what're the downsides?
This is AirTalk. AirTalk is a dongle that extends a LocalTalk (or PhoneNet, or equivalent) network over WiFi.
It's basically plug and play: you tell it what WiFi network to connect to through the Chooser, and then you just go. All the AirTalk dongles on the same WiFi network can see each other and all look like they're on the same LocalTalk network, and so everything plugged into the LocalTalk port of those dongles can see each other as if the dongles were joined together with LocalTalk cables.
(this is the old icon; the new AirTalk icon, by @LaPorta, is prettier, but I didn't have a screenshot handy)
It requires no software on the Mac or LocalTalk device to use it, the Chooser extension only sets it up, so it will work with things like printers or routers as well as with Macs.
You can also network with (at time of writing) the beta of Mini vMac, though I'm sure this code will make it into production sooner or later. (Though this has a few caveats, mostly around speed).
It has a serial port, where you can either plug in a printer cable to a single LocalTalk device (Mac, printer, router, whathaveyou) or plug a LocalTalk or PhoneNet box in to add it to the end of a whole LocalTalk network. It can either get its power from Micro USB or from an ADB passthrough.
So much for the sales bumf, what're the downsides?
- You obviously lose some speed compared to "wired" LocalTalk. How fast it is depends on a lot of things. but all my testers managed to get it to work at at least half wired LocalTalk speed, and most significantly more. I get about 90% of wired LocalTalk speed, but I obssessed over building my WiFi network.
- WiFi limitations: Decent speeds require decent WiFi signal strength. AirTalk does not do 5GHz WiFi, only 2.4GHz. It does not support WEP or WPA Enterprise, because the first is unsafe and the latter suggests you're plugging this into a corporate network which sounds like a bad idea. It supports WPA(2) Personal, and while it will connect to unencrypted networks, this is not a supported configuration, and you shouldn't do it unless you have absolutely no other choice. Your WiFi needs to be handing out IP addresses over DHCP—if you haven't deliberately turned this off it probably is—and it needs to be able to pass multicast. Nearly all modern WiFi does.
- There are some compatibility limitations. It probably won't work with a 6100 (why? I don't know yet, but it's reproducible.) Netgear's Orbi wireless system seems not to pass multicast properly, and it looks like something similar is going on with eero. Thankyou to everyone who has reported and helped reprouce compatibility issues, it's hugely appreciated.
- AirTalk is not a LocalTalk to EtherTalk bridge. If you have more modern OS 9 Macs with AirPort cards on the same WiFi network as AirTalk machines, they will not be able to see each other. There are good reasons for this, unfortunately.
- AirTalk is not a generic serial/RS232 extender. If, for example, you have a non-LocalTalk printer, you can't stick two AirTalks between the printer and the computer and expect it to work. There are plenty of options for this already, I believe. AirTalk is a wireless networking dongle.
- AirTalk is not a modem emulator. It will not allow you to connect to, say, an IP network using emulated PPP. It will, however, let you connect to an IP network with MacIP (using something like @mactjaap's MacIP stuff or Apple IP Gateway) at LocalTalk speeds, which is probably faster.
- If you only get one AirTalk, you will be basically limited to networking with Mini vMac at this point.
ironborn65
Well-known member
Many thanks @cheesestraws for the commitment and for bringing this useful device to the community
cheesestraws
Well-known member
Argh, I can't edit the post any more. I meant to put that in but it got lost in editing, apparently. :-(
Skate323k137
Well-known member
That is awesome, do I just configure the AirTalk in chooser on an extra machine, and then plug that AirTalk into the ImageWriter II?
LaPorta
Well-known member
Exactly. Once any of the devices are configured, you just plug it in and it acts the same as a PhoneNet box or equivalent would function.
techknight
Well-known member
Has anyone plugged this device into an Asante Ethertalk to Localtalk bridge?
I would like to setup an Airtalk and Ethertalk network to the same fileserver.
cheesestraws
Well-known member
It works (at least, mine did when I tested it), but you have to use a pair of boxes (localtalk/phonenet/whatever) between the AsanteTalk and the AirTalk, rather than just a printer cable. The AsanteTalk seems to be taking some shortcuts in the way it actually drives the line (I'm not sure quite what, I haven't reverse engineered it, but there don't seem to be any actual RS485 drivers in there...)
LaPorta
Well-known member
I have used mine with my iPrint LocalTalk - Ethernet bridge. Works just fine, no issue. That way I have connected it to my house Ethernet network.
techknight
Well-known member
Ahh ok. it just seems like it would be the way to make this work the way I want to.
in an ideal world, a pi could emulate both the airtalk and ethertalk protocols simultaneously with netatalk, but ya know. Lotsa custom development at that point.
in an ideal world, a pi could emulate both the airtalk and ethertalk protocols simultaneously with netatalk, but ya know. Lotsa custom development at that point.
Scribe
Active member
Did you answer the question about an Ethernet (or LocalTalk+Ethernet) version of the AirTalk? I didn't see anything, but I may have missed it...
cheesestraws
Well-known member
Summary: I've got a hardware prototype on my desk but a busy summer, poor mental health and work being busy has meant I haven't really done anything with it yet. But it is planned, so long as I can reclaim my own brain
Skate323k137
Well-known member
I say this in all seriousness, please do take care of yourself. Don't forget your own needs especially when the day job is busy.Summary: I've got a hardware prototype on my desk but a busy summer, poor mental health and work being busy has meant I haven't really done anything with it yet. But it is planned, so long as I can reclaim my own brain
Scribe
Active member
Thanks for the update (and, you know, everything). It's good to know you're working on it, but it's even better to know that you are prioritizing real work and health.Summary: I've got a hardware prototype on my desk but a busy summer, poor mental health and work being busy has meant I haven't really done anything with it yet. But it is planned, so long as I can reclaim my own brain
Hi all,
has anyone used the device on a mac plus? If yes, how do you power it? Can we steal some power from e.g. floppy drive connector?
@cheesestraws do you believe it would be ok to solder a wire on the usb +5v terminal and feed it to the floppy drive connector? Would it be already grounded or would in need an additional wire for ground?
Many thanks,
Andrew
has anyone used the device on a mac plus? If yes, how do you power it? Can we steal some power from e.g. floppy drive connector?
@cheesestraws do you believe it would be ok to solder a wire on the usb +5v terminal and feed it to the floppy drive connector? Would it be already grounded or would in need an additional wire for ground?
Many thanks,
Andrew
