IIsiColorPivotII_PDS_Card_HackProject™

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Package received & I've been testing the SE/30 Direct Slot Color Pivot Cable from the Big@$$NuBus&PDScardLot™ with GREAT SUCCESS! [] ]'>

It's exactly the same cable needed for macmetex's Radius IIsi Color Pivot II/PDS PassThru Cards!

Initial Test Results/First Draft of IIsi Color Pivot II Report:

_________________________________________________________________

Initial tests & second run tests done using HDD Q700 w/NO IIsi specific install done as yet . . . :/

Tests Run under OS 7.5.1

NO RadiusWare drivers installed on HDD . . . yet!

_________________________________________________________________

First round of tests done on expendable 21" MAG Innovision MX21F using Mac DA-19 Input

_________________________________________________________________

Straight thru (two cables tested) Mac Video Cable Results:

______640 x 480 x 66 Hz @ 8 Bit - 13"/14" RGB (Fixed Res Mac Monitor Standard)

_________________________________________________________________

Same cable with ENHANCE Liberty Dial DA-19 -> DA-19 Adapter Results:

_"J"___640 x 480 x 66 Hz @ 8 Bit - 13"/14" RGB (Fixed Res Mac Monitor Standard)

_"F"___832 x 624 x 75 Hz @ 8 Bit - 16" Color (Fixed Res Mac Monitor Standard)

Chimes of Death:

_"A"___OPEN

_"D"___1024 x 768 x_?_Hz - 19" Color (Fixed Res Mac Monitor Standard)

_"G"____640 x 480/800 x 600 x_?_Hz - VGA/SVGA

_"P"___1152 x 870 x_?_Hz - 21" Color (Fixed Res Mac Monitor Standard)

_"M"___1152 x 870 x_?_Hz - Apple 2 Page Mono (Fixed Res Mac Monitor Standard)

_"M"____640 x 480 x_?_Hz - LC VGA (Fixed Res Mac Monitor Standard)

Boots w/NO Video:

_"O"___870 x 640 x_?_Hz - Apple Portrait (Fixed Res Mac Monitor Standard)

Out of Sync/Horizontally Banded partial Image:

_"N"___512 x 384 x_?_Hz - 12" Color (Fixed Res Mac Monitor Standard)

UNTESTED:

_"H"___ PAL

_"L"___NTSC

_________________________________________________________________

Second round of tests done using near unobtanium Radius PrecisionView 2150

_________________________________________________________________

HD-15 -> 5 BNC Cable with ENHANCE Liberty Dial DA-19 -> HD-15 Adapter

_________________________________________________________________

_"J"___640 x 480 x 66 Hz @ 8 Bit - 13"/14" RGB (Fixed Res Mac Monitor Standard)

_"F"___832 x 624 x 75 Hz @ 8 Bit - 16" Color (Fixed Res Mac Monitor Standard)

_"N"___512 x 384 x_?_Hz @ 8 Bit - 12" Color (Fixed Res Mac Monitor Standard)

Stretched COLOR Video:

_"O"___640 x 870 x_?_Hz @ 8 Bit - Apple Portrait (Fixed Res Mac Monitor Standard)

Chimes of Death WITH DELAYED VIDEO & Radius Logo/No Boot:

_"A"___OPEN

_"D"___1024 x 768 x_?_Hz - 19" Color (Fixed Res Mac Monitor Standard)

_"G"____640 x 480/800 x 600 x_?_Hz - VGA/SVGA

_"P"___1152 x 870 x_?_Hz - 21" Color (Fixed Res Mac Monitor Standard)

_"M"__ 1152 x 870 x_?_Hz - Apple 2 Page Mono (Fixed Res Mac Monitor Standard)

_"M"____640 x 480 x_?_Hz - LC VGA (Fixed Res Mac Monitor Standard)

UNTESTED:

_"H"___ PAL

_"L"___NTSC

_________________________________________________________________

I need to repeat the first run of testing on the MAG 21" CRT, as I may very well have shut down the IIsi before the Delayed Video Display appeared onscreen.

I'll test using the HD-15->5 BNC Cable with ENHANCE Liberty Dial DA-19->HD-15 Adapter on BOTH Monitors . . .

. . . just for $#1^$-n-giggles! )

_________________________________________________________________

Adapter Free Custom Cable Pinouts/Diagrams to be posted when I have some "private time" with my continuity tester! [] ]'>

The SE/30 Card has an ID conflict with the IIsi Card when used together . . .

. . . but there are jumpers on the IIsi Card to be tested! }

I'll have to find an extra SCSI HDD to load with 7.0.1/TuneUp "For any Macintosh" and load the proper RadiusWare™ Drivers to see if any or even all those Video-no-Boot situations are remedied. I don't have any specs handy . . .

. . . but we MIGHT be able to coax 19" Color outta these puppies!

I was happier'n-a-pig-in-poop when I got 16" Color @ 8 Bit on the first test-go-round! [] ]'>

Pics-n-stuff to be posted later! :approve:

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Thanks to macmetex's mention of the PCI Futura Card info in an auction on the Mainly Neat Stuff site, I've rediscovered this gem of a site!

It appears as though someone has been hard at work entering the Vintage Radius Documents content. Back in the day, there were a lot of WIP links on this page. Now the info is handy and when I find my Radius Q&A FaxBack Paper Records, I'll check to see if I can forward any additional content! I won't need to post all/any of it myself! [] ]'>

Meanwhile:

Here's the Color Pivots (#0277/0233) Q&A info, which confirms my research info and lets me know that I can safely hook up my APD directly to one of these cards with my stock APD Cable! [] ]'>

I thought it'd be fine, but its near unobtanium status kept me from testing this config on my precious Radius OEM'd APD/Desktop RFI Generation Unit!

Q: Is my pivot card compatible with other displays?
A: The color pivot cards will drive a standard fifteen-inch portrait display, and since the cards also support an 832x624 resolution, they will also work with some 16 or 17-inch Macintosh compatible displays. Naturally, the displays won't pivot, but you will have a proper image.

Interestingly enough, this document doesn't mention:

_"N"___512 x 384 x_?_Hz @ 8 Bit - 12" Color (Fixed Res Mac Monitor Standard)

. . . which I discovered during testing, which will probably protect my functional 12" RGB CRT from hackage as a IIsiHackTopper until it dies of natural causes . . . [}] ]'>

If anybody has an SE/30 that's in need of an extended desktop (apparently, this class would include ALL SE/30s, the stock 9" single bit periscope being as unsuitable for any serious work as was the case of my SE/Radius 16 GraphicsWorkStation back in the day!) I'd like to verify that these cards will run fine in the '/30. I can't imagine they won't and they'd be a LOT more useful in a '/30 than the SE/30 Direct slot version of the card! [] ]'> I cannot imagine that there's not a far more elegant SE/30 Multicard solution than the kluges posted on gamba or that there can't be a way to create a new approach to the megabuck 3 PDS slot adapter card documented there! [}] ]'>

Now, with this new Q&A info uncovered, I can forgo any further testing . . .

. . . and move right on to building a few "direct connection" adapted/replacement cables! :approve:

. . . and LCD testing! :approve:

. . . to be continued! :lol:

edit: Meanwhile I haven't posted this link yet: Radius Color Pivot IIsi Interface Card

n.b. other than being a good customer for a great eBay seller and having an on & off email pal in the process, I've got no connection with his auctions other than lusting after, and buying way too much of, the MacStuff in his store! [] ]'>

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

More Test Results:

Radius Color Pivot II/IIsi DB-15 -> (Apple) Macintosh Portrait Display cable -> Macintosh Portrait Display = AOK!

Radius Color Pivot II/IIsi DB-15 -> Standard (Apple) Macintosh Display cable -> AppleColor HiRes RGB Monitor = AOK!

Radius Color Pivot II/IIsi DB-15 -> Standard (Apple) Macintosh Display cable -> 16" Mac Moni . . . untested, no gots . . .

Radius Color Pivot II/IIsi DB-15 -> Standard (Apple) Macintosh Display cable -> Macintosh 12" RGB Display = AOK!

LCD Results:

__Dell 20" 1600 x 1200 Pivoting LCD:

______At (F on the dial) 16" Color: Flashes beautiful desktop display briefly during auto-adjustment, but can't hold sync.

______At (J on the dial) 13"/14" RGB: can't hold sync at all.

______At (O on the dial) 15" Macintosh Portrait Display: No image at all.

______At (J on the dial) Macintosh 12" RGB: Displayis fine, but interpolating this resolution causes jitter left to right.

__ViewSonic VP920b 19" 1280-1024 Pivoting LCD:

______At (F on the dial) 16" Color: AOK!

______At (J on the dial) 13"/14" RGB: AOK!

______At (O on the dial) 15" Macintosh Portrait Display: No image at all.

______At (J on the dial) Macintosh 12" RGB: Display is fine, but interpolating this resolution causes jitter left to right.

Ergo: This Color Pivot II Card will Work with LCDs, but you're gonna have to test to find the right LCD! :approve:

 

[Bunsen]

Excellent news! I just nabbed two of macmetex's cards. }

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

LOL! I was beginning to think nobody was reading this thread! [] ]'>

I've still got a "couple" more LCDs to test yet! I'd imagine a 3/4 aspect ratio rather than a 4/5 aspect ratio would be key. I can't wait to test it on my 32" 720p TV, it seems to run anything I throw at it.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Well, the big 720p TV/Monitor doesn't sync, it must be like my HP LCDs, they'll all letterbox anything my Macs throw at them . . .

. . . so long as it's at 60Hz.

I was almost certain that all the early Mac Fixed Resolution Video Standards pre-dated the VGA Standard, but I was mistaken . . .

. . . sort of. :

Luckily, as I was pulling the fifth edition of Upgrading and Repairing PCs, I remembered all the Wikepedia links that have started popping up in Firefox (?) here and on other sites. While researching, I ran across the Computer display standard page there.

< edit: AHA! it works! :approve: >

Very interesting timeline . . . it indirectly (sort of) confirms my notion that a 3/4 (4/3?) aspect ratio will be helpful in looking for a compatible LCD.

Dunno, don't care, I've found one of mine that works!

I've got my trio of beige 21" TPDs: a MAG Innovision MX21F with its handy resolution/frequency LCD readout, my trusty Radius PrecisionView 2150 and the ViewSonic Graphics Series G810 that's in Portrait Mode (liberated at a thrift, missing its tilt-n-swivel base) along with Black Beauty, my ViewSonic Professional Series P225f 22" MultiSync CRT.

The HackStation workhorse is the 17" Sony Multiscan from my son's old bedroom A/V/homework station. There are also three of the four Apple CRTs that work with this card, including the two that were designed to sit upon of the IIsi/'za boxen/IIci/Q700 form factors in my collection.

Feel free to post specs/brand/model names of compatible LCDs any of you comrades might identify here, for the rest of the gang. [] ]'>

I'm moving on to network confirmation and slot address issues concerning use of the NuBus Adapter along with these two cards. After that, I'll be working up the hardwired connection (no adapter required) pinouts for anyone involved in this little project. These will allow comrades everywhere to build any of the four cables/adapters for the tested/documented resolutions of the Color Pivot II/IIsi and the SE/30 Direct Slot Cards . . .

. . . and THEN . . . the real fun begins! }

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Piccies!

Having done a little sense line hacking back when I bought a pair of cables for my Macintosh Portrait Display that didn't work as labeled, I'm positive the paired/split wires lead to sense lines on the DB-15 Connector.

Having collected a friggin' boatload of Radius Products, I'll hazard a guess that that orange line is driven high or low depending on the position of the Pivot Monitor. That leaves just five remaining lines for me to buzz . . .

. . . that almost certainly lead to matching color coded wires on my HD-15 <-> 5 BNC connector video cable. :lol:

We'll see Sunday night! :approve:

KnuckleDraggin'HardwareHacker's Brute Force Approach to a, crystal can swap, down-clock of 16" 75Hz Fixed Res Output to a 60Hz LCD friendly Output solution for the RCP2IIsi Card.

Any suggestions from my electron-pushin' comrades? :?:

PDS Connector Donor Card(s)

Next step in my shot at a MultiCard IIsi Hack will be to de-solder the RA Female PDA connector on the Donor Card to replace the de-soldered Straight PDS PassThru Connector on the RCP2/IIsi card! [}] ]'>

Expect to see a pic of the MacCon Card sticking straight up from the RPD2/IIsi Card sometime in the next week or so! [}] ]'>

Anybody care to guess what card is slated to be tested next "Outside the Box?" :?:

 

[Mk.558]

If anybody has an SE/30 that's in need of an extended desktop (apparently, this class would include ALL SE/30s, the stock 9" single bit periscope being as unsuitable for any serious work as was the case of my SE/Radius 16 GraphicsWorkStation back in the day!) I'd like to verify that these cards will run fine in the '/30. I can't imagine they won't and they'd be a LOT more useful in a '/30 than the SE/30 Direct slot version of the card! [] ]'> I cannot imagine that there's not a far more elegant SE/30 Multicard solution than the kluges posted on gamba or that there can't be a way to create a new approach to the megabuck 3 PDS slot adapter card documented there! [}] ]'>

I've got one, I was looking for a VGA output. I don't even care if it's got color. Just something I can hook up to a presenter. In fact, it would probably be best at just 1-bit. 4-bit greyscale can be fine, it's that long ago we had a SE/30 with a Color PDS card, and I noted a slight performance hit. (Besides as everybody knows here, you can still make high-class presentations in HyperCard all in B&W! Couple that with a good lecture and few might forget it?!)

Even better if it can work with my Ethernet adapter.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Even better if it can work with my Ethernet adapter.

Good news . . . check above, I edited in the SE/30 Config, a development step of my IIsi Hack!

Bad news: No VGA is possible with the "stock" RCP2/IIsi Card.

Interesting question: can a DownClocking Crystal Can Hack spit 640 x 480 x 8 bit @ 60 Hz outta' those headers? :?:

Dunno, I'm eagerly waiting to hear from one of our EE type comrades! :I

 

[Bunsen]

LOL! I was beginning to think nobody was reading this thread! [] ]'>

There's a "viewed" counter for each topic in the forum index, and in the "new topics" listing. This one is pretty popular.

can a DownClocking Crystal Can Hack spit 640 x 480 x 8 bit @ 60 Hz outta' those headers? :?:

Dunno - why not socket and see? )

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

The counter just indicates that a lot of comrades have peeked. I was wondering how many, if any, were actually reading/following the thread and how many just give it a look over, shake their heads at it, and go on to other topics.

I work best in collaboration, that's why I post as I go, looking for input as to how to make the testing, and then the hacking, easier to accomplish.

I really don't understand the timing clock thing, some crystal values to try to get the resolutions mentioned, or even advice that I'm barking up the wrong tree, would be a HUGE help to me. I was thinking a three crystal can PCB, with DIP Switch activation/deactivation of a couple of test values and the stock Crystal, might make a dandy lil' addition to this card.

Dunno, that's why I asked for HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :approve:

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Here's the Color coding for the 5 BNC Cable, I'll buz the connections ASAP, maybe tonight!

ARRRRGGGGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 8-o

So much for my powers of guesstimation . . .

. . . . Green is the only BNC connector wire that's connected to the matching wire on the cable for the card! :disapprove:

iCrap!!!!!! It looks like I found a second crystal . . . is that what CR1, the three legged thingamajig next to the cable connector is?

If CR1 a crystal, these tiny bast . . . . erm . . . components . . . marked CR are probably crystals too! :-/

I think I need to drop back 15 and PUNT!!!!!!!

G'night! xx(

 

[MidnightCommando]

CR1 is a Voltage Reference.

It's basically an IC that provides a fixed reference point for the voltages sent along the signal path, as far as I can make out.

The LM185/LM285/LM385 are micropower 3-terminal adjustable band-gap voltage reference diodes. Operating from 1.24 to 5.3V and over a 10 mA to 20 mA current range, they feature exceptionally low dynamic impedance and good temperature stability. On-chip trimming is used to provide tight voltage tolerance. Since the LM185 band-gap reference uses only transistors and resistors, low noise and good long-term stability result.

FWIW Crystals tend to be marked X or XTAL, Oscillator cans (four-pins) and Resonators (those weird things that look like three-pin tantalum slugs) tend to be OSC.

I have no idea what CR could designate here.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Thanks! Now if somebody can offer a crystal replacement spec . . .

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

As an avid Radius collector, I couldn't pass up this (Darker Than PowerBook [] ]'&gt Gray LCD on eBay.

It's a very nice example of an early 15" LCD that has its roots in both the Mac and VGA Video Worlds.The Mac Connector opening has sheet metal behind it . . .

. . . but the LCD still syncs to ALL the resolutions put out by IIsiRadiusColorPivotII & IIsi! [] ]'>

Native Rez is higher at 1024 x 768! :approve:

Here's a lower angle shot of the first mating of subterranean components for the SuperIIsiHack™ underway!

trag's EuroDIN connectors arrived, I have to solder this one down to the SuperMac PDS Adapter and then munch the semi-desoldered PDS connector off one of my Color Pivot IIs a/o a NIC.

First test after soldering the connector on the SuperMac PDS Adapter will be to stack the IIsi NuBus Adapter . . .

. . . atop the modded SuperMac Card with a NuBus Card installed! }

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Good news:

Resin cleanup, soldering and buzzing the connections were successful. :beige:

The cards mate up and the CP2/IIsi runs very well stacked under or above the SuperMac PDS Adapter!

Fair news:

I had some "rolling" of the KDS/Radius LCD's display at 16" . . . :-/ . . . a few frames were out of sync and the top edge of the screen climbed up the overall display in an erratic manner at times. It seems to be under control now, dunno . . . feces occur!

 

Relatively bad, but not entirely bad news:

NuBus Card installed in PDS Card Stack locked the system up.

Spent some time playing around with the RCP2/IIsi's Addressing jumpers and found a second address after getting some VERY strange results! Some settings bombed, several booted just fine, but immobilized the mouse cursor, but NOT the mouse button.

Tried the NuBus Adapter in the PDS Card Stack with the new RCP2/IIsi PseudoSlot ID: same results.

Back to basics!

Tested just the NuBus Adapter and IIsi booted up normally.

Installed Mac II Hi Rez VidCard and a second monitor: Vampire Video and VidCard worked fine.

Back to test I should have run first! :

NuBus Adapter plugged directly into RCP2/IIsi's passthru connector hangs the system too.

OOPSIE!!!!!!!!!!!! :I

Time to check out the docs on the /NuBus Signal on pin 2C of the IIsi's PDS. :approve:

Docs show it as n.c. on the SE/30, so adding a NuBus Card to the /30 looks to be problematic, but that's just a curiosity for me, not part of my hacking plans! [] ]'>

 

Luckily, my plan calls for the PDS Cards to be mounted to the PDS underneath the MoBo . . .

. . . with the NuBus adapter mounted conventionally in the MoBo's PDS Connector.

 

I guess it's time to order some solder paste for the subterranian Machine Pin Mounting Mod! }

 

Luckily, I snagged that empty IIsi shell off eBay before some PC Modder did something unspeakable to it.

Now I can chop an access port outta the bottom for the subterranian PDS Cards! :lol:

 

[tt]

Hey Trash, in your searching, did you find a pin-out for the Radius Color Pivot IIsi & SE/30 cable? Thanks!

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Thanks for reminding me! I've still got to noodle that one out, a lot of the wires are tied together.

Has anybody got the Color Pivot II Monitor, Software and Manual for either the NuBus or '030 PDS Cards to add to my research data collection? :?:

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

I'd already started to noodle this out when CelGen posted the Pivot mono + Pivot color card? thread.

zuiko21 posted some encouraging Oscilloscope Data on this Card/Cable Combo project . . .

. . . so I took another look at the RCPII/IIsi Cable again tonight. :b&w:

If you buzz the connections pin for pin they map straight to the DA-15 Female's pins 1 thru 15 with pin 8 as N.C.

But it's a tad more complicated than that:

There are 8 discrete connections:

pin 3 = ___yellow__ = CSYNC

pin 4 = ___gray____ = Monitor sense signal 0

pin 7 = ___blue____ = Monitor sense signal 1

pin 10 = __purple__ = Monitor sense signal 2

pin 11 = __green___ = CSYNC and VSYNC ground

pin 12 = __orange__ = VSYNC

pin 14 = __black___ = HSYNC ground

pin 15 = __red_____ = HSYNC

The other connections are 3 much heavier wires that branch to two pins each and are color coded: BLACK, BROWN and RED

The splits of these branches are each composed of a black wire and a clear wire.

pin 1 = BLACK/black = Red ground

pin 2 = BLACK/clear = Red signal

pin 5 = BROWN/clear = Green signal

pin 6 = BROWN/black = Green ground

pin 9 = __RED_/clear = Blue signal

pin 13 = _RED_/black = Blue ground

. . . of these connections: pins 1, 6, 13 & 14 are all tied to ground on the RCPII/IIsi PCB as stated earlier.

I hope this pic from above explains things better . . .

Pin 1 is on the left.

edit: I just filled in all the signals and color-coded the pin connections to match the wires in the pic.

Pinout info from mediawiki/Macintosh VGA (I couldn't find GttMFH2e) which gives a leg up on going straight from the RCPII/IIsi Card's Headers to a VGA-out HD-15 connector . . .

. . . IF we can underclock the card to VGA's 60Hz Sync Rate for using this card with modern LCDs. See: UNDERClocking a Video Card??????

I feel better, it all makes more sense to me now . . . sorry for the wait gang. :-/