Finally got a Macintosh II!

[Juror22]

You have in your Macintosh II the PMMU upgrade build in. It's the black processor right next to the 68020 (B738A - VH783 - 3 4 3-0001-2).

From his picture at the beginning of the thread, this is the HMMU - sort of a low-budget alternative to the PMMU that they put in all theMac IIs without a PMMU. Here is a thread explaining... https://68kmla.org/bb/index.php?threads/how-do-i-know-if-my-macintosh-ii-has-a-pmmu-or-hmmu.38060/

"The 68851 MMU is VERY hard to find unfortunately and I can imagine the asking price nowadays if you could even find one would be more than an entire Mac II"
I found someone who had an extra one in Europe and bought it from him last year - the FDHD kit with the SWIM chip and the ROM updates is not easy to find, so you were fortunate to have your suspicion about this machine work out!

 

[4seasonphoto]

So cool that you actually had that setup back then. If I ever find a monochrome monitor I definitely want to do that with mine!

It was good irresponsible fun, and IIRC, this was also around the time I added an Apple CD SC, matching Apple tape drive, audio mixer and a set of speakers: Talk about desktop sprawl!

 

[PB145B]

A lot of IIs were upgraded into IIx or IIfx as customers would opt for a logicboard upgrade, it was a cost effective option vs buying a new Mac. So an original II upgraded to a IIx is easier to find.

That definitely makes sense!

You have in your Macintosh II the PMMU upgrade build in. It's the black processor right next to the 68020 (B738A - VH783 - 3 4 3-0001-2). That makes it technically a 68030. Without this PMMU upgrade, Internet Explorer 3.01 wont run.

As @Juror22 pointed out later in this thread, I have the original Apple HMMU, not the 68851 PMMU.

The IIfx is definitely more desirable, and they are becoming more rare due to vast quantities of them succumbing to battery-bomb destruction. They are also by far the hardest to repair since the logic board is 6 layers with a massive number of uncapped vias that are prone to corrosion. I actually see more eBay listings for battery bombed IIfxs than working ones.

Yeah I do see a lot of battery-bombed IIfx machines and boards. Very sad!

Well done!

I remember the first time I saw a Macintosh II. They had just been released, and my college's computer center had a few. I was in awe at the color picture, the expansion slots, and the sheer size of the thing; it was so very different a machine in appearance and abilities from my Mac Plus that I found it difficult to lump the two under the same "Macintosh" brand. I knew I'd never be able to afford one, but a mere 18 years later, I picked up a fully functioning IIfx for $5. Those were in the days of old Macs being thought of as e-waste.

Thanks! Yeah the Mac II was definitely a massive change for the Macintosh platform! Man, $5 for a working IIfx! You can add two zeros to that price now...

Most of my 68k collection came from working at a recycling center about 20 years ago. Instead of cash, I'd get my pick of computer equipment (within reason). Nobody cared about RISC workstations, 68k, or beige PPC stuff, just the relatively modern consumer systems that they could easily resell like G3s and Pentium III boxes, so I basically took whatever I wanted of the older machines. I wish I had grabbed some of the SGI stuff too, but I digress.
One day I grabbed a IIx and took it home. It didn't boot. Bummer.
I saw another IIx later so I also grabbed that one. It didn't boot. Dammit.
So I got a third IIx. It burned down, fell over, and then sank into the swamp, er, didn't boot.
Eventually I gave up. All 3 of these just sat in storage. Maybe I'd try to fix them one day.

Turns out, the IIx (and I think the rest of the big II models) won't boot with dead batteries. So it's likely that all 3 of mine will boot if I dig them out of storage and put in new batteries (I did remove them before they went in storage so they aren't bombed).

It's likely that a lot of the big II models got scrapped or sold for parts due to a no-boot situation caused by those dead batteries.

Also, the IIcx, as the name implies, is a compact IIx, so it has all the performance with half the expansion slots and only one internal floppy drive. Many people probably didn't see the need for 6 NuBus slots or an extra floppy drive so the IIcx was a better deal than a IIx (in addition to taking up much less desk space).

Man that sounds like fun!

Yeah it pains me to think of all the big Mac II series machines that were tossed because they "didn't power up." Yikes...

The IIcx definitely seems to have quickly overtook the big Mac IIs in popularity. Makes sense for the reasons you say, but man I sure do love the look of the full sized ones! But the cute little "cube" form factor of the IIcx/IIci is very nice looking as well.

"The 68851 MMU is VERY hard to find unfortunately and I can imagine the asking price nowadays if you could even find one would be more than an entire Mac II"
I found someone who had an extra one in Europe and bought it from him last year - the FDHD kit with the SWIM chip and the ROM updates is not easy to find, so you were fortunate to have your suspicion about this machine work out!

Oh man lucky? Would you mind telling me what you paid? If you’d rather not say that’s cool but I’m genuinely curious.

Yep I’m really glad it turned out to have the FDHD upgrade!

It was good irresponsible fun, and IIRC, this was also around the time I added an Apple CD SC, matching Apple tape drive, audio mixer and a set of speakers: Talk about desktop sprawl!

Hah, that sounds awesome! I bet you needed a massive (and sturdy) desk to fit all of that on it!

 

[Juror22]

Would you mind telling me what you paid?

I got it for around $75 - the others that I found at the time (last October/November), were around 120+shipping.

 

[PB145B]

I got it for around $75 - the others that I found at the time (last October/November), were around 120+shipping.

Oh nice! I'd gladly pay that for one if I could find it.

 

[Mk.558]

The IIcx definitely seems to have quickly overtook the big Mac IIs in popularity. Makes sense for the reasons you say, but man I sure do love the look of the full sized ones! But the cute little "cube" form factor of the IIcx/IIci is very nice looking as well.

I prefer the IIci over all the other Mac IIs and Quadras because it boots System 6, is reasonably fast, has built in color should that be needed and doesn't have many of the fancy gimmicks that the IIfx has which, realistically, most weren't even used fully. The compact form factor of the IIcx/IIci/Q700 is nice as it doesn't take up much space.

In addition, I'd argue, even today, most people don't really need all 5 slots of a Mac II/IIx/IIfx and the machines are, for those who have not had them in real life before, enormous at some 50cm in width. However, it is [Current Year] and we should cherish everything we've got, because there are not stacks of Macs going for a tenner at the side of the curb anymore.

 

[4seasonphoto]

I guesstimated my 1989-90 expenditures for that massive Mac II system, and figure it cost about 15K USD when adjusted for inflation But I was accustomed to offsetting the costs by selling off older stuff while it still had value, so although I liked my Mac Plus-upgraded 512K and had all of the original "Picasso" packaging to go with it, someone was willing to pay me $900 for it, or about $2200 in today's money, and I couldn't ignore that! I'm amazed by people who could afford to simply stash their old computers away for decades.

 

[PB145B]

I prefer the IIci over all the other Mac IIs and Quadras because it boots System 6, is reasonably fast, has built in color should that be needed and doesn't have many of the fancy gimmicks that the IIfx has which, realistically, most weren't even used fully. The compact form factor of the IIcx/IIci/Q700 is nice as it doesn't take up much space.

The IIci is definitely one I’d like to get someday. They still seem relatively easy to find and fairly affordable also. It’s is a nice form factor definitely!

In addition, I'd argue, even today, most people don't really need all 5 slots of a Mac II/IIx/IIfx and the machines are, for those who have not had them in real life before, enormous at some 50cm in width. However, it is [Current Year] and we should cherish everything we've got, because there are not stacks of Macs going for a tenner at the side of the curb anymore.

I agree, I’ll probably never use all of those slots! Cool to have them though.

As for the size, I have a bunch of IBM PCs, XTs and first-gen Compaq Deskpros, so the size feels very normal for me, it’s just kinda crazy (and awesome) to have a Macintosh in this form factor!

But if you have never had any early full-size desktop PCs and have only ever been around compacts and newer Macs, it will definitely be shockingly massive!

And yeah, it’s not 1999 anymore and the days of getting pallets of 68k Macs for next to nothing are gone forever. All of these machines deserve to be cared for and enjoyed at this point!

I guesstimated my 1989-90 expenditures for that massive Mac II system, and figure it cost about 15K USD when adjusted for inflation But I was accustomed to offsetting the costs by selling off older stuff while it still had value, so although I liked my Mac Plus-upgraded 512K and had all of the original "Picasso" packaging to go with it, someone was willing to pay me $900 for it, or about $2200 in today's money, and I couldn't ignore that! I'm amazed by people who could afford to simply stash their old computers away for decades.

WOW! That’s a lot of change. Well worth it though I think. You actually got to own and use a Macintosh II back when they were new, and that is priceless today if you ask me!

Nice on getting $900 for the Mac 512k/Plus conversion. Seems like a pretty decent amount to make on what was a relatively “old” computer at the time!

 

[PB145B]

The Macintosh II got a much-needed hard drive upgrade today! Found a really good deal on a Seagate ST2209N, which is a rebranded CDC Wren V 94211-209. The drive holds about 160MB formatted.



These are very nicely built drives and very high performance for the era. Apple actually used this exact drive in the Mac IIfx 160MB configuration! So this felt like an appropriate choice of drive for this Mac II. The performance improvement over the original Quantum 40MB is quite noticeable actually. This drive is so much faster.

The weight of this drive also surprised me! I didn't weigh it but wow it's heavy for a half height drive!

I got it all formatted and my stuff copied over to it and it's running great! I just copied everything on the original 40MB drive to a folder on my BlueSCSI and then copied everything back to the new 160MB drive after I installed it. Went very smoothly! I also did a surface scan and there's no bad sectors either so this is a healthy drive!

Very pleased with this upgrade!

 

[Franklinstein]

As much as I like the old CDC/Imprimis-origin Seagate drives, they're getting old(er) and I don't trust them. Too many use rubber bumpers that, when they disintegrate, allow the armature to travel beyond its normal boundaries and this usually results in catastrophic damage. I had one model (I forget the exact model but it was a 3.5" 400MBish drive) and each one had the same failure: the armature went too far into the LZ, the head sliders hit the spindle, and the sliders were all ripped off. Stiction was also a problem on those if they've been sitting too long, especially if it's humid, and can also result in head slider damage. It's also really difficult to replace the bumpers.

 

[PB145B]

As much as I like the old CDC/Imprimis-origin Seagate drives, they're getting old(er) and I don't trust them. Too many use rubber bumpers that, when they disintegrate, allow the armature to travel beyond its normal boundaries and this usually results in catastrophic damage. I had one model (I forget the exact model but it was a 3.5" 400MBish drive) and each one had the same failure: the armature went too far into the LZ, the head sliders hit the spindle, and the sliders were all ripped off. Stiction was also a problem on those if they've been sitting too long, especially if it's humid, and can also result in head slider damage. It's also really difficult to replace the bumpers.

I don't think the 5.25" HH ones like mine have that issue, but I'm not 100 percent sure. The Quantum Q250s like the one that came in this Macintosh II DO have that issue though! I fixed mine before it even started so it should be good but I've seen plenty of cases where a slider ends up ripped off on them due to the constant crashing into the spindle from the degraded rubber bumpers.

Stiction I'm almost positive is not a big issue on the 5.25" CDC drives, I have never seen or heard of one with stiction personally. I have definitely seen cases of electrical-related failures on them though.

 

[PB145B]

Wow, I finally ran an actual benchmark on the new drive and look at the difference in the disk speed rating compared to the original Quantum Q250 (right) and the new CDC/Seagate (left)!

Ignore all of the other tests, I didn’t run those again because nothing else has changed since then other than the drive.

So the CDC is pretty much twice as fast as the Quantum. Nice!

 

[PB145B]

I’ve always loved this HD icon that the Micronet utility included, and now that I that have an actual large Mac II I feel justified in using it!


Ignore the screen artifacts, that’s just the camera. This CRT looks exceptionally good in person now that it’s adjusted properly!