How common was the LC III

[Macflyer]

I'm wondering how popular the LC III was (or not)?

Reason, I don't encounter hardly any of them where I look. Even on ebay they seem scarce.

I figured, I want one of those since they fit neatly on the desk I use for my PC (and hence I can hook it up to my monitor with the adapter), and upgraded with an Apple IIe card I could mess around with old 8-bit software a bit.

Of course, the LC II or 1 would do they same job but of course the III has a tad more juice in it.

So, why are they so hard to encounter?

 

[LCGuy]

The LCIII wasn't quite as common as the LCII, for one thing it cost a bit more than the LCII, but I'd think it was still a bit common. My Dad bought an LCIII back in 1993, and I remember it was several hundred dollars more than an LCII, but with its redesigned logic board optimized for the 68030 CPU, higher RAM ceiling (36MB vs 10MB in the LCII), and faster CPU (25 Mhz vs 16 Mhz), you were getting a lot more computer.

For the record, just about anything that runs on an LCIII should also run on an LCII, however the LCII may have trouble handling some things that the LCIII will handle with ease, due to its low RAM ceiling and/or slower CPU and slower bus. Another software compatibility issue is that the LCII can run System 6.08, whereas the LCIII can't, if thats important to you.

 

[aftermac]

They were pretty popular in schools. I haven't looked for any recently, but schools were littered with them (and LC II's) in the 90's.

 

[Unknown_K]

Yes, both of my LC III's were from a school. I think the guy I got them from had a trailer full of them.

LC's and the AIO LC models must have been very popular with schools and therefore common. Being one of the cheapest models helped.

 

[ppuskari]

For that Apple IIe card keep in mind IIRC you need to run that in 24-bit mode. 32-bit mode won't work. So the IIe card in a LC III may not work since I"m not sure you can run the LC III in 24bit mode.

Something to consider since maybe that's also the reason 6.0.8 won't run on the LCIII too ??? Might have to yank that machine in the collection too and try it out.

So many projects and experiments and so little time. This forum is just amazing! I'm finally back in Old Apple Play mode!

 

[LCGuy]

I can confirm that the LCIII definitely does support 24 bit mode, in fact when an LCIII has a flat PRAM battery, or no PRAM battery, it boots up in 24 bit mode by default. And it does support the Apple IIe card, in fact Apple even supported that configuration.

As for the LCIII not supporting 6.08, I'm fairly sure it has to do with the completely revised logic board design, given that it was 1993, and System 7 had been out for 2 years, there are likely chips on the logic board that System 6 simply doesn't support. Even System 7.1 required a System Enabler to patch in the required support in order to boot 7.1.

 

[Dennis Nedry]

In the consumer market, the LC III was sold as the Performa 450. It's identical except for the sticker on the front of the case, and some accessories that came bundled with it.

LC III+ (still an 030, but faster) was sold as Performa 460, 466, 467

One step further, an 040 Mac LC was sold by several names. LC 475, Performa 475, 476, Quadra 605

It would appear that the IIe card will work in ALL of these. So maybe you can widen your search a bit if you don't mind the label saying "Performa XYZ" instead of LC III. I personally would prefer non-performa versions... BUT you take what you can get with these old things.

 

[Quadraman]

If System 7 had been on the market for 2 years by the time the LCIII was released, then it's not surprising that you can't run System 6 on it. You can't downgrade a system to a version that was released prior to the version that the machine shipped with. It's Apple's way of keeping the user experience as current as possible. They can't force you to upgrade, but they can prevent you from downgrading. They've always done it that way.

 

[Scott Baret]

All models with "LC" in their name were popular in schools. In fact, the LC line became education-only after some time. I believe the original LCIII (not LCIII+) was the last LC sold to consumers.

Schools liked the LC because it was inexpensive, could display color, and could run Apple II software with the Apple IIe card. Keep in mind many schools had massive libraries of Apple II software sitting around by the time the LC came out in late 1990. With the LC, they could buy new computers and not sacrifice compatibility. The slot for this card remained on subsequent models (and also showed up on the Color Classic, essentially a reworked LCII without the ability to run System 6).

The pizza box LCs kept selling well until the 520 came out, just in time for the 1993-1994 school year. The III was less popular than the I or II because:

A. The III came out in March 1993. Many schools don't buy computers in the middle of the year.

B. The 520 came out in time for 1993-1994, just in time to compete with the III for new computer sales. The AIO 520 was a better value on paper for many, especially if shipping was factored in.

C. The 520 was the same machine as the III.

D. Many schools had just purchased entire labs of IIs in 1992-1993 or Is in 1991-1992 and weren't ready to buy more.

E. (this one is very important): AIOs represented a better solution for computer labs due to the number of power outlets needed to run one. In schools that had actual labs (not labs retrofitted to old classrooms), two outlets per computer were common. Since CD-ROMs were taking off and an external CD-ROM would have added a third outlet, new power strips would have been needed--both an extra expense and one more thing to worry about during the course of a busy school day (believe me, I have seen rows of computers go out in labs because a student or teacher accidentally hits the switch). In retrofit classrooms, every power outlet is even more valuable.

F. The AIO is easier to move from classroom to classroom than the modular design--less wires, less parts.

By the time the 475 came out, Apple had to lower the price dramatically to get people to buy it over the 500 series. However, by the time the 1994-1995 school year came around, the AIO line was much more popular, especially with the Classics off the market by then. (Some schools preferred the Classics due to their smaller design, lower price, and increased portability). The 5000 series took over in 1995-1996 (but sold alongside the 500s for a while, with the older machines provided as value priced alternatives--remember the 580?)

 

[~Coxy]

That's a really good writeup on the LC series, Scott, thanks for that.

In Australia at least though, the LC475/575/630 were sold directly to consumers.

 

[Quadraman]

I remember the 580, in fact I have two of them here. Apple ditched the more expensive Trinitron monitor and SCSI drive from the 575 to make the 580 more attractive to school budgets.

 

[LCGuy]

That's a really good writeup on the LC series, Scott, thanks for that.In Australia at least though, the LC475/575/630 were sold directly to consumers.

Yeah, I remember seeing them in the showroom at our local AASP, in fact I think they sold more of the LC variants here than they did of the Performa variants, the Performa name didn't really become all that common until the PowerPC Performas came in. For example, I've seen plenty of LC475s in my life, I've never, ever seen a Performa 475, 476 or 477.

 

[Scott Baret]

In the States, it is also more common to see the LC versions show up on the market. While I feel this is from the greater number of LCs sold to schools, it could also be that some of the earlier Performas were just poor sellers.

I don't know of anyone who owns a Performa 200. Nor have I seen a 250 in person. I've only spotted four 4xx machines, and of those four, only one had the newer-style enclosure (introduced in September 1993). The 040-based Performas seemed to sell much better (especially the 630 series), as did the AIOs and the later PPC-based machines. Even when the Performa line came out, I seem to recall more people buying the 600 than the 200 and 400, perhaps because of its internal CD-ROM and the intense marketing of titles such as the Living Books series.

Of course, if I were to receive a random pallet of pizza boxes, I'd say approximately 75% would be LC Is and IIs. The remainder would be about 10% LC IIIs (both regular and plus), 5% 475s, and 10% random Performas. As I mentioned before, the majority of these computers would likely be school castoffs, but remember that consumers could still get LCs (in the US) in indirect ways--such as buying one through a college or university bookstore or by purchasing it through the educator program (provided someone in the family was a teacher).

(I actually remember a conversation with someone in the 1990s--they had assumed all LCs, even the older ones, were for schools only and were surprised that I owned one).

Speaking of LC machines, I've heard conflicting reports about when the IIe card was discontinued--was it 1994 or 1996?

 

[Macflyer]

Thanks everyone for the informatin provided. Esp. the tip with the differently branded names might prove helpful.

Anyways, if anyone feels to part with whatever LC model let me know.