Hermes BBS install

[Byte Knight]

Regarding making 3.5.11 compatible with old Hermes II externals, I think it is reasonably safe to say that that is not going to happen. Michael has moved on and is done with Hermes. Furthermore, as I think you know, he changed Hermes' architecture substantially in 3.5.11 so that old externals will NOT even be recognized in it.

In fact, yesterday I spent a few hours trying out literally dozens of old externals, which proved to be a total waste of my time, because NONE of them worked, except for Snake, and I am not even sure if that one is working properly and fully.

I've found six games that work with v3.5 and above, and only Leech is written in Python. So some of the older games do work with the latest version of Hermes II. Here's what Miller had to say a year ago when I asked him about most doors not working: "Which externals are you having trouble with on 3.5.11? I put a lot of work into the TCP and telnet functionality so that everything would "just work" for Internet-connected BBSes. But there *were* some changes to the external APIs over time... we might be able to fix that? It just depends on which externals are causing you trouble."

To be honest, yesterday I spent a bit of time using Black Night to visit some of the BBSes that are listed on some of your boards. I was rather disappointed to see that according to the lists, MOST of the boards do NOT even run Hermes. They run Mystic, Synchronet, or some other BBS software. That is NOT going to convince Michael to devote his time to making old externals compatible with Hermes, or writing new externals either, much less updating Hermes for macOS. I think this is the reality of the situation.

Yes, unfortunately you had the last Hermes II BBS in existence until I put The Crow's Nest up for the month of March. BTW, there's a site for searching active BBS's here - make sure to add your BBS to the list once it's back up!

 

[cloverskull]

Yeah, I think getting all the externals working would be amazing. It would literally solve all my current Hermes II concerns

 

[Hardcore SysOp]

View attachment 71068
I've found six games that work with v3.5 and above, and only Leech is written in Python. So some of the older games do work with the latest version of Hermes II. Here's what Miller had to say a year ago when I asked him about most doors not working: "Which externals are you having trouble with on 3.5.11? I put a lot of work into the TCP and telnet functionality so that everything would "just work" for Internet-connected BBSes. But there *were* some changes to the external APIs over time... we might be able to fix that? It just depends on which externals are causing you trouble."


Yes, unfortunately you had the last Hermes II BBS in existence until I put The Crow's Nest up for the month of March. BTW, there's a site for searching active BBS's here - make sure to add your BBS to the list once it's back up!

Byte Knight, can you please clarify that you are running those five, plus the python version of Leech, on 3.5.11, and NOT on 3.5.10b3? I tried so many externals yesterday that both my brain and eyes were fried and I was exhausted from doing it. And there were a few dozen more that I hadn't even tried yet. But I did try somewhere around three dozen or so, with only Snake panning out.

Question: Being as all Hermes II external developers have disappeared, and a lot of those externals were commercial by Lloyd Woodall and others, how in the world did you even get them to work? In other words, how were you even able to find registration numbers for them? Or all they all free? Or is this something hush-hush that we should not ask in public?

 

[Byte Knight]

Byte Knight, can you please clarify that you are running those five, plus the python version of Leech, on 3.5.11, and NOT on 3.5.10b3? I tried so many externals yesterday that both my brain and eyes were fried and I was exhausted from doing it. And there were a few dozen more that I hadn't even tried yet. But I did try somewhere around three dozen or so, with only Snake panning out.

I can confirm those six games work with v3.5 and above. And you can too by going to CQ II BBS -> Games -> Hermes II. I've got v3.5.11 running on there as a game server.

Question: Being as all Hermes II external developers have disappeared, and a lot of those externals were commercial by Lloyd Woodall and others, how in the world did you even get them to work? In other words, how were you even able to find registration numbers for them? Or all they all free? Or is this something hush-hush that we should not ask in public?

Most of the games I've come across work fine. Blackjack Pro and Slycrel require registration numbers and Sidd Hartha, who runs os9.ca, was able to hack some registration numbers. I can get those to you when you're up and running.

 

[Hardcore SysOp]

I can confirm those six games work with v3.5 and above. And you can too by going to CQ II BBS -> Games -> Hermes II. I've got v3.5.11 running on there as a game server.


Most of the games I've come across work fine. Blackjack Pro and Slycrel require registration numbers and Sidd Hartha, who runs os9.ca, was able to hack some registration numbers. I can get those to you when you're up and running.

Well, this is very interesting. After reading your above comments, I in fact reinstalled the externals that you mentioned. And, just as occurred last time, two things happened:

1. The error log spit out an error message for all of them, stating that they were too old for my version of Hermes II.

2. The second thing is that NONE of them even showed up in the Externals menu. Well, Black Jack Pro did. However, when I type a 1 to access it, the BBS went to the second external instead, which is the Fidonet external which Michael included with the package.

I tried several times and got the same results every time. I recall Michael even telling me quite some time ago that this new version would in fact break all of the old externals, so I don't understand why they are working for you, but not for me. Truly weird.

In other news, I salvaged what I could from archive.org, and over the past two days, I have rebuilt my Armageddon BBS website from scratch Sadly, I am missing some things which I had on the original site nine years ago -- namely quite a few tutorials regarding how to use Hermes commands -- and other useful files.

Nevertheless, if you visit my site, you will see that I still offer quite a bit of information, including how to compile Hermes. I offer all of the required tools, plus other useful files for the Mac Classic side, and other stuff.

If you or any other folks here want to check it out, please go to https://www.billkochman.com/Hermes.

Aside from setting up the new -- or resurrected -- Armageddon BBS website, I have also been struggling with some issue regarding making the required tunnel between the macOS side of things, and the Mac Classic side of things in SheepShaver.

It is weird, because if I set the TCP/IP control panel to Ethernet and DHCP server, it does assign me an IP address, and I can use Black Night to visit other BBSes, and even download files.

But as far as people from the outside reaching my BBS, I don't think so.

The thing is, if I use manual instead, and assign the Mac Classic side an IP address which is compatible with my LAN, then my Internet connection in Mac Classic is lost.

And if I try adding the IP address that the TCP/IP control panel and Ethernet/DHCP Server assigns to Mac Classic to my router, the router complains that it does not recognize the IP address and tells me to use one that is a part of my LAN.

It is weird, because, as you probably know, my internal LAN uses 192.168.x.x, while the TCP/IP in Mac Classic wants to give me a 10.0.x.x IP address, so no wonder they can't communicate with each other.

The other day I installed Tun/Tap on the Sonoma side from the TunTapOSX website, hoping that would help. Then I also discovered an app called TunnelBlick which can also install Tun/Tap. But I didn't do any configuring in TunnelBlick, because I got the impression that that was only if you wanted to connect to a VPN server. So I am thinking that just installing Tun/Tap should be enough, as it was nine years ago. I think the Tunnelblick configuration may be over my head anyway.

So, until I am sure I have a reliable Internet connection between Mac Classic and Sonoma, I see no point in doing much development on my actual BBS.

One other disappointment. The old Mac Classic web browsers -- such as Mozilla and Casilla -- can't even connect to any websites, because they all complain that there are no common communications algorithms between them, or something like that. I spent a lot of time today trying to find an easy solution, but most of it is rather convoluted and involves compiling binaries in the Terminal and such.

Lastly, I am still getting one error -- not a fatal one though -- when trying to translate all of the Hermes II files with the ./prepare working command, so that I can build the app in THINK Pascal. I am thinking of seeing if Hermes will build in THINK Pascal, despite that one error.

If you can offer any help with any of this, I would be most appreciative. If not, then it is probably time for me to go bug the guys over at emaculation.com. I haven't been there in nine years.

 

[Byte Knight]

Well, this is very interesting. After reading your above comments, I in fact reinstalled the externals that you mentioned. And, just as occurred last time, two things happened:

1. The error log spit out an error message for all of them, stating that they were too old for my version of Hermes II.

2. The second thing is that NONE of them even showed up in the Externals menu. Well, Black Jack Pro did. However, when I type a 1 to access it, the BBS went to the second external instead, which is the Fidonet external which Michael included with the package.

Try my attached Externals folder. Now I remember that I also got rid of all the Python stuff in the Externals folder in order to get things to work - Leech 3.5 is not the Python version. I'm also not running Fidonet.

Aside from setting up the new -- or resurrected -- Armageddon BBS website, I have also been struggling with some issue regarding making the required tunnel between the macOS side of things, and the Mac Classic side of things in SheepShaver.

It is weird, because if I set the TCP/IP control panel to Ethernet and DHCP server, it does assign me an IP address, and I can use Black Night to visit other BBSes, and even download files.

But as far as people from the outside reaching my BBS, I don't think so.

The thing is, if I use manual instead, and assign the Mac Classic side an IP address which is compatible with my LAN, then my Internet connection in Mac Classic is lost.

And if I try adding the IP address that the TCP/IP control panel and Ethernet/DHCP Server assigns to Mac Classic to my router, the router complains that it does not recognize the IP address and tells me to use one that is a part of my LAN.

It is weird, because, as you probably know, my internal LAN uses 192.168.x.x, while the TCP/IP in Mac Classic wants to give me a 10.0.x.x IP address, so no wonder they can't communicate with each other.

The other day I installed Tun/Tap on the Sonoma side from the TunTapOSX website, hoping that would help. Then I also discovered an app called TunnelBlick which can also install Tun/Tap. But I didn't do any configuring in TunnelBlick, because I got the impression that that was only if you wanted to connect to a VPN server. So I am thinking that just installing Tun/Tap should be enough, as it was nine years ago. I think the Tunnelblick configuration may be over my head anyway.

So, until I am sure I have a reliable Internet connection between Mac Classic and Sonoma, I see no point in doing much development on my actual BBS.

If you can offer any help with any of this, I would be most appreciative. If not, then it is probably time for me to go bug the guys over at emaculation.com. I haven't been there in nine years.

I actually used your old thread on eMaculation to set up my Hermes II game server in SheepShaver. My situation is a little different however in that my Mystic BBS actually telnet's to the Hermes II BBS running in emulation on the same computer. Both Mystic and the Hermes II game server are running on my Mac Mini.

 

[Hardcore SysOp]

Try my attached Externals folder. Now I remember that I also got rid of all the Python stuff in the Externals folder in order to get things to work - Leech 3.5 is not the Python version. I'm also not running Fidonet.


I actually used your old thread on eMaculation to set up my Hermes II game server in SheepShaver. My situation is a little different however in that my Mystic BBS actually telnet's to the Hermes II BBS running in emulation on the same computer. Both Mystic and the Hermes II game server are running on my Mac Mini.

Ha! Well how about that! I removed all of the python externals as you suggested. I don't plan on implementing Fidonet anyway. Is it even still around? Anyway, all six of the externals worked! Now it makes me wonder how many of the dozens of others I tried the other day might possibly work. I spent hours with those things until I had a headache. Or have you already tried all of them, and only those six will work?

In related news, get this: As I said previously, I decided to rebuild my Armagedon BBS website from what was left on archives.org, plus add some other new stuff to it as well. So, earlier today, after I had spent two days designing and setting up the site, I decided to try to get back my original domain name from years ago. That is, armageddonbbs.com. I don't remember how much I paid for it at the time, but it was probably somewhere between $20-$40 per year.

Well, not only was the domain no longer available, but my jaw dropped when I saw how much the new owner is asking for it. I am assuming that everything I did with the domain nine years ago must have really increased its value, because the new owner is asking for just under $5,000 for it! Crazy, right? I've seen worse.

So, as much as I wanted ArmageddonBBS.com again, I had to settle for ArmageddonBBS.net instead. So a few hours ago I moved all of the files and folders out of my main website's subdirectory, into the new directory for ArmageddonBBS.net so that it is a standalone website.

I am currently having a problem with a 403 error though. I don't know if it is because I missed a setting somewhere, or if maybe the domain name just hasn't propagated here yet. I don't know though. GoDaddy is pretty fast with their propagation.

 

[Byte Knight]

Ha! Well how about that! I removed all of the python externals as you suggested. I don't plan on implementing Fidonet anyway. Is it even still around? Anyway, all six of the externals worked! Now it makes me wonder how many of the dozens of others I tried the other day might possibly work. I spent hours with those things until I had a headache. Or have you already tried all of them, and only those six will work?

I could only get those six to work, and I've got the above 23 working with v3.1.1. Something happened with v3.5, I'm assuming something to do with the headers, where most door games stopped working...

 

[cloverskull]

@Byte Knight any chance you'd be willing to share your externals folder for 3.1.1 also? Just for locally messing around. Thanks!

 

[Byte Knight]

@Byte Knight any chance you'd be willing to share your externals folder for 3.1.1 also? Just for locally messing around. Thanks!

Sure thing - see attached.

 

[cloverskull]

Thanks!

 

[Hardcore SysOp]

View attachment 71148
I could only get those six to work, and I've got the above 23 working with v3.1.1. Something happened with v3.5, I'm assuming something to do with the headers, where most door games stopped working...

So it sounds like you went through the external gauntlet just like I did the other day.

Well, I have some kind of good news .... although I can't say to what degree yet.

As some of you know, I have been exchanging a few emails with Michael Alyn Miller over the past few weeks. I informed him of the problems I was having with translating and then compiling the source code from GitHub. More specifically, I pointed out several resource files in the downloaded zipped archive which had become corrupted, making it impossible to create the "Working" folder, much less compile the translated code once you put it back under Classic Mac and use the THINK Pascal compiler.

Well, he wrote back to me about four hours ago to say that he had confirmed the problems I had found, and that he had corrected them, and pushed the updated files to GitHub. He was even nice enough to translate the GitHub source for me on his end, and send me the working folder, so that all I had to do was stick it back on Mac OS 9.0.4, click the Hermes project file, and within seconds, I had a new copy of the Hermes II 3.5.11 app. It's probably not any different from the 3.5.11 you folks are already running, but it doesn't hurt to have the latest and freshest copy of the source.

But the good news from my perspective, is that I managed to inspire him to get his nose back into the Hermes II code.

I told him straight out that some of us here are hoping and wishing that he will renew his interest in Hermes' development -- if not make a macOS compatible version -- at least update and release some of the old externals so that they will work with 3.5.11.

My last words said to him in my most recent email were a question: Are you itching yet to get back into Hermes? I told him we are all rooting for him.

 

[Byte Knight]

I told him straight out that some of us here are hoping and wishing that he will renew his interest in Hermes' development -- if not make a macOS compatible version -- at least update and release some of the old externals so that they will work with 3.5.11.

That's great - glad he's talking to someone! There would be no reason to use older versions of Hermes II if he could somehow make the older doors work with the latest version. If he needs it, I've got the source code and headers for some doors before and after v3.5.

 

[Hardcore SysOp]

That's great - glad he's talking to someone! There would be no reason to use older versions of Hermes II if he could somehow make the older doors work with the latest version. If he needs it, I've got the source code and headers for some doors before and after v3.5.

Byte, let's wait and see when and how he responds to me. I know he is quite busy and is tied up in a lot of different projects.

 

[cloverskull]

Once again for door compatibility I'd be happy to chip in for a bounty

 

[Hardcore SysOp]

That's great - glad he's talking to someone! There would be no reason to use older versions of Hermes II if he could somehow make the older doors work with the latest version. If he needs it, I've got the source code and headers for some doors before and after v3.5.

Byte Knight, can you please post a list of all the externals you have tried which have failed to work in 3.5.11? I want to see if I might possibly have some here which you don’t have. Now that I have removed all of the python-related externals, there is a very small possibility that Imight have something which you don’t have, which may still work.

On a related note, given how many years have passed, and Hermes’ morbid state, it would be great if Michael could at least remove the registration code from all of the externals that still do work. I really don’t like running externals that are registered to someone else.

 

[Hardcore SysOp]

Once again for door compatibility I'd be happy to chip in for a bounty

To be clear here, Mr. Skull, are you suggesting that you are willing to pay a bounty to convince Michael to immerse himself once again into the nostalgic world of Hermes II BBSing? Or are you interested in paying a bounty to have someone’s head removed from their shoulders for some reason?

Just so you understand, with us older guys, brain cells begin to deteriorate a bit, and so we thus become a bit confused regarding certain things that are stated online.

 

[Byte Knight]

Byte Knight, can you please post a list of all the externals you have tried which have failed to work in 3.5.11? I want to see if I might possibly have some here which you don’t have. Now that I have removed all of the python-related externals, there is a very small possibility that I might have something which you don’t have, which may still work.

These all have been tested and will not work with any version above v3.5. And please let me know if you find any other archives of doors! I remember seeing mention of an adventure game called "Cries in the Dark" but have not come across it yet.

On a related note, given how many years have passed, and Hermes’ morbid state, it would be great if Michael could at least remove the registration code from all of the externals that still do work. I really don’t like running externals that are registered to someone else.

I know a guy who can do that too, but as far as those six games that work with v3.1.11 we should be good. I've got working registration codes for BlackJack Pro and Slycrel and the other four don't require them.

And BTW, it's great to see your web page finally updated! You might want to consider adding a browser based terminal client to your page at some point like I did so users can connect directly to your BBS from the web.

 

[Hardcore SysOp]

View attachment 71195
These all have been tested and will not work with any version above v3.5. And please let me know if you find any other archives of doors! I remember seeing mention of an adventure game called "Cries in the Dark" but have not come across it yet.


I know a guy who can do that too, but as far as those six games that work with v3.1.11 we should be good. I've got working registration codes for BlackJack Pro and Slycrel and the other four don't require them.

And BTW, it's great to see your web page finally updated! You might want to consider adding a browser based terminal client to your page at some point like I did so users can connect directly to your BBS from the web.

Years ago, I actually had registered versions of a number of Hermes externals, and I held on to the registration codes for quite a few years. But, eventually I trashed them, because I figured I was done with BBSing. Dummy me!

You know a guy who can do what?

Regarding connecting to the BBS from the Armageddon BBS website, there is already a telnet link in the image that is located at the top of every page. It will launch either the macOS Terminal app or whatever telnet client a person has set for their machine.

Sadly though, for some reason, the macOS Terminal throws an error which I don't understand whenever I click on that link. I can telnet out just fine using the Terminal app, and it looks fabulous!

BTW, Cat_7 helped me to finally get the BBS connected to the Sonoma side about an hour ago. So you can connect to it now, but it is in its totally virgin state with zero alterations by me yet.

 

[Byte Knight]

You know a guy who can do what?

Crack registration codes for door games - he already did that for BlackJack Pro and Slycrel.

Regarding connecting to the BBS from the Armageddon BBS website, there is already a telnet link in the image that is located at the top of every page. It will launch either the macOS Terminal app or whatever telnet client a person has set for their machine.

A lot of people don't even know what a telnet client is. The ftelnet client can be "built in" to your webpage so users can skip the step of installing a telnet client on their computer or launching another program. Check the one out on my BBS web page in my sig. I have a bunch of users that connect up that way for convenience. And you can even upload and download through it!

BTW, Cat_7 helped me to finally get the BBS connected to the Sonoma side about an hour ago. So you can connect to it now, but it is in its totally virgin state with zero alterations by me yet.

And I think I already crashed it - welcome back to Sysop'ing! I launched a game of Cups and it froze up and disconnected... Sorry!