Hermes BBS install

[Hardcore SysOp]

One advantage of running 3.5.11 is that you don't need a registration number. You just enter your BBS's name, and it says that Hermes is registered to that BBS. But, of course I know this doesn't appeal to you, Byte, because only six externals work with 3.5.11.

But on the other hand, previous versions of Hermes II are so buggy and unstable. I remember how frustrated I got whenever Hermes would freeze up or crash, right after I had added some new files to it, or maybe created some new directories, or acquired some new users. And then, BAM, everything was lost. So, despite losing compatibility with a lot of externals, I was happy to move up to 3.5.11. If I had the knowledge and skill, I'd make improvements to 3.5.11 myself, now that I have the source and know how to compile it. But I am just some old geezer, n00b, so ....

 

[cloverskull]

@Byte Knight stellar news! Thanks for running this down!

Follow on question - not to be too greedy Do you think these folks that agreed to this crack would also agree to someone getting a hand of the source and re-adding old external compatibility?

 

[Byte Knight]

But on the other hand, previous versions of Hermes II are so buggy and unstable. I remember how frustrated I got whenever Hermes would freeze up or crash, right after I had added some new files to it, or maybe created some new directories, or acquired some new users. And then, BAM, everything was lost.

I just ran v3.1.1 on my Iici with System 7.5.5 for the month of March without any crashes or freeze-ups whatsoever. I was pleasantly surprised with how stable it was!

 

[Byte Knight]

Follow on question - not to be too greedy Do you think these folks that agreed to this crack would also agree to someone getting a hand of the source and re-adding old external compatibility?

That's the hope! It depends on what happens to the ownership of Hermes II...

 

[cloverskull]

If there's a bounty to be paid, I'm happy to chip in but don't know how substantial of a donation I could make. But hell, I wouldn't mind being co owner

 

[Hardcore SysOp]

That's the hope! It depends on what happens to the ownership of Hermes II...

Byte Knight, I don't follow your thinking. What do you mean by "It depends on what happens to the ownership of Hermes II"? Michael made Hermes II open source at least nine years ago, and anyone is free to do whatever they want with it now.

If anyone here knows their way around Pascal, as far as I know, you can edit and recompile to your heart's content.

 

[cloverskull]

I think it's regarding the source to the older version which was commercial. The one which has the compatibility with older externals.

 

[Byte Knight]

I think it's regarding the source to the older version which was commercial. The one which has the compatibility with older externals.

Correct.

 

[Hardcore SysOp]

I don't know anything about computer laws, coding laws and software laws, but are you saying that even though Michael Alyn Miller purchased the source for Hermes II from Bill Dolinar, and became its final developer before making it open source back around 2015 -- maybe earlier -- that he is not the sole, legal owner of the code now -- or at least he was until he made it open source -- of the Hermes II code? Didn't Lloyd Woodall, Lloyd's son David, Will Price III, Robert Rebbun and Bill Dolinar each relinquish their rights to the code each time that it was sold and passed to a new developer, with Michael being the final one? As I said before, I was back there when this was all very popular, but I don't understand all of the behind-the-scenes legalese involved with it.

 

[Byte Knight]

It's official - Will Price has bought back Hermes BBS, so there's now hope for some new development! From Will:

All done. Domain transferred. Contract signed. In the next week or two, I'll be just doing the basics like creating a new website.

 

[cloverskull]

Hey @Byte Knight following up here, anything new from Will?

 

[Byte Knight]

Hey @Byte Knight following up here, anything new from Will?

Well, he finally updated the Hermes website!

My favorite part:

The most recent version of Hermes included a new method of developing externals. The External Development System, first made available in Hermes II 3.5.10, is based on the Python programming language. Versions of Hermes source code and binaries with and without this will be made available to support compatibility with all externals developed over time.

 

[cloverskull]

Hey @Byte Knight are you still in touch with Will? Has there been anything more done here? I've seen the new website is up but hasn't changed since launch.

 

[Byte Knight]

Hey @Byte Knight are you still in touch with Will? Has there been anything more done here? I've seen the new website is up but hasn't changed since launch.

I'm still in touch - he had to evacuate during the Palisades Fire. Luckily his home survived but he wasn't going to be able to move back in for several weeks, so probably no new updates anytime soon.

Speaking of Hermes, I'm planning on putting my 6 node wifi-modem Hermes BBS up again for #MARCHintosh.

 

[Byte Knight]

The Crow's Nest BBS, running Hermes II v3.1.1 on my 40 MHz 68040 Carrera-accelerated Mac IIci with six wifi modems hooked up to a CSI Hurdler II 4-port serial NuBUS card, is back for #MARCHintosh2025!

What's new this year?

• Downloads have been updated with the latest vintage Mac software releases, which I don't think you can find anywhere else in one place. I also finally figured out how to add file descriptions.
• Added the Macworld Game Hall of Fame winners from '86 to '01 to the GFiles section.
• There are now a total of 23 original Hermes door games to play in the Externals section.
• Thanks to Will Price (original programmer who recently reacquired Hernes) and Sidd Hartha, we now have a clean crack of Hermes v3.1.1 so everything works as it should!
• Got rid of the dial-up modem as nobody ever called it.

Node one is up and running now so telnet over to crowsnestbbs.ddns.net:6801 today! Nodes 6802-6806 will be up starting March 1st. As usual, use ZTerm with a wifi modem-equipped Mac, or Black Night with a networked Mac to connect. PM me here if you forgot your password from last year. Hope to see you there!

 

[superjer2000]

The Crow's Nest BBS, running Hermes II v3.1.1 on my 40 MHz 68040 Carrera-accelerated Mac IIci with six wifi modems hooked up to a CSI Hurdler II 4-port serial NuBUS card, is back for #MARCHintosh2025!

What's new this year?

• Downloads have been updated with the latest vintage Mac software releases, which I don't think you can find anywhere else in one place. I also finally figured out how to add file descriptions.
• Added the Macworld Game Hall of Fame winners from '86 to '01 to the GFiles section.
• There are now a total of 23 original Hermes door games to play in the Externals section.
• Thanks to Will Price (original programmer who recently reacquired Hernes) and Sidd Hartha, we now have a clean crack of Hermes v3.1.1 so everything works as it should!
• Got rid of the dial-up modem as nobody ever called it.

View attachment 83819 View attachment 83820

Node one is up and running now so telnet over to crowsnestbbs.ddns.net:6801 today! Nodes 6802-6806 will be up starting March 1st. As usual, use ZTerm with a wifi modem-equipped Mac, or Black Night with a networked Mac to connect. PM me here if you forgot your password from last year. Hope to see you there!

Awesome! I am looking forward to giving this a try!

 

[Byte Knight]

Will Price, the original programmer for Hermes BBS who recently reacquired it, just signed onto the BBS. Come join us and learn about the early days of Mac BBS'ing!

 

[Byte Knight]

Chris Swan, author of Black Night terminal program, has signed onto the BBS! He describes why Black Night was the best terminal program in the 90's and still works great today. He also talks about how he came up with the name (and no, it's not a play on White Knight). Check out post #76 in the General forum!

 

[Mike-1706]

Hello dear Apple Sysops...

Started last year a BBS Forum project.


OK... it's not Apple only specific! But I think the scene has become very manageable these days. So a general forum with all BBS programs for all OSs makes more sense (my personal opinion!!). Including all necessary Tools, Online Door Games and the hardware you need.

And back to... forming/building a sysop community again. As I started at the beginning of the 90's there exists about 40.000 BBS's wordwide. Currently there should be between 1200 and 1500!

I'm trying to bundle the existing experience with this general forum!

So maybe it's worth a view?

Every begin is laborious and some things, especially with such a long tradition, have to grow and need patience!

Looking forward for your visit... and have a nice day!

Mike

 

[cyphers]

Hey, this is Will the original creator of Hermes. Really for the first time lately, I have been going through in detail all the drops I got from malyn. I can do a lot of things and put up a lot of things, but just figuring out what to prioritize for now. The main things on my mind:

• Post the code and releases, basically everything I got, in an organized fashion. The era from my transfer to Lloyd circa 1993 until Dolinar is basically the dark ages. Most releases and code are nowhere to be found. I would have better luck finding such releases on the Internet. The era from 3.4 forward is well-defined and increasingly detailed with lots of code and releases up through 3.5.11 including various offshoot experiments like Forth externals and such.
• I am no fan of the new Externals system. One, I just would never have changed it without compatibility. Two, nobody used it so nobody cares. Three, every external was written for the old system so why would you ever change it. I don't get it. Just causes problems. In principle, I could take the clean 3.5.11 code and just switch it back to the old Externals system. That can't be more than a day or two of work as the old external system looks like what I added originally anyway. Call it 3.5.12. The serial number code was extracted and removed a while ago, so it would be a nice clean final release assuming nobody cares about Python. Since I am not running the old Support BBS yet, my ability to test is very limited though.
• Personally, Hermes 2.2 in the exact form I gave to the first buyer, is the last version I really trust. Bill above is saying good things about 3.5.11, so I will assume that by 3.5.11 malyn had gotten the app out of the dark times, but by that point it suffered from various fatal decisions like changing externals to an incompatible design. So another path is just releasing a version 2.2 without serial numbers. This would just take minutes to do. Probably not too useful. Releasing the exact 2.2 app and code with the original serial number system is more likely.
• As a point of pride, I want to publish the serial number system itself including the different version variations. It was a super complex system way ahead of its time – though screwed up and turned evil a bit during the dark ages. It should be preserved historically. The work I did on it is part of how I knew so much about cryptography to go on to lead the engineering efforts for PGP over the next couple decades. I'm still assuming I don't need to make this do something, but rather just organize it for public consumption. If someone has specific needs for specific serial numbers (not already solved earlier in this thread by Sidd and Byte Knight), go ahead and email me at the address on the hermesbbs.com site. (or reply here)
• Finally, the more modern engineer in me has been exploring Just Do It Again by creating a totally new app based on the concepts. I have a lot of thoughts on this, but not ready for Prime Time here. Before I get too involved in that, I want to wrap up any archival items like those above.