Can't get AppleTalk to work on System 7.1.1 Pro

[pfuentes69]

I have a PowerBook 145B where I installed 7.1.1 Pro... This version includes "PowerTalk", which I never used and I typically disable.
In this Mac I can't get AppleTalk to work, I can't see anything in the LocalTalk network.
By default I didn't have any "Network" item in the control panel, so I installed the "Network Software Installer 1.5.1", and now I have the control panel item, but it's still not working.
What am I missing?

 

[Mk.558]

Check if AppleTalk is turned on in the Chooser.

Test the serial port with a ZTerm session. As long as it's not via PhoneNET, fire up any other machine, load a terminal emulator, set to say, 9600 8N1 on both, and mash the keyboard a few times to see what comes out of the other end.

 

[pfuentes69]

Check if AppleTalk is turned on in the Chooser.

Test the serial port with a ZTerm session. As long as it's not via PhoneNET, fire up any other machine, load a terminal emulator, set to say, 9600 8N1 on both, and mash the keyboard a few times to see what comes out of the other end.

Appletalk was enabled.

I don't think it's a problem with the port... I'm more inclined to something missing in this particular version of the System.

 

[NJRoadfan]

ZAP the PRAM. I've had problems with AppleTalk on other machines that has been solved with that. A clean install of System 7.1 should "just work" with LocalTalk out of the box.

 

[pfuentes69]

ZAP the PRAM. I've had problems with AppleTalk on other machines that has been solved with that. A clean install of System 7.1 should "just work" with LocalTalk out of the box.

This 7.1.1 Pro System does not include the network control panel, but it brings that PowerTalk thing.

 

[Mk.558]

PowerTalk is some silly thing that was overdone (and slightly ahead of its time) and overcomplicated that won't affect LocalTalk or EtherTalk traffic.

I couldn't leave you hanging, though.

Since I don't keep an install of 7.1.1 Pro around for a variety of reasons I had to install it. First I tried to use Basilisk II but I think I have an old version of the GUI thing that likes to crash and hang all the time. So then I went to mini vMac except because 7.1.1 Pro uses an obscene amount of disks, I ran into Mini vMac's disk limitation. Before that you can't load Read-Only Compressed disk images into anything except DC, and that's fine, we can just convert them and drag them over. Oh but that didn't work either.



Okay fine I'll reboot into OS 9 and install it onto a ram disk. (Note: mac mini G4s are somehow incompatible with the Memory control panel RAM disks.) I then copied it over LocalTalk to a IIci and used System Picker to run it along side the other OSs I've got projects for on that thing.



(AppDisk is a remote server volume btw, as a RAM disk. Since 7.1 includes AppleShare 7.1 by default, it causes Chooser to exit with an error connecting to any of my 40 or 120GB volumes. Use AppleShare WS 3.5.)

I installed pretty much everything in the Installer, it apparently even picked up my network card. That won't matter because even if you don't get the Network control panel then it defaults to LocalTalk regardless. If you don't have a Network control panel, then you may have OpenTransport, in which case you'd have the AppleTalk control panel instead. While I doubt you'd have installed OT 1.3 on this thing, in the AppleTalk control panel you'd only have to find "Modem/Printer Port" for Macs with only 1 serial port or "Printer Port" for ones with 2. Aside from that, if AppleTalk is on in the Chooser, you're looking at more of a hardware issue. A cable not plugged in. A bridge not powered on. Something of that sort.

By default System 7 includes AppleTalk for the LocalTalk serial ports, the only time you'd not be able to see another machine in the Chooser and have it be a hardware issue at that point is if AppleShare was not installed. AppleShare IIRC is also installed by default, even if you don't chose File Sharing Software (which just installs the local file server element), but I'll have to double check that last part, BRB. Otherwise if you specifically don't want AppleTalk you'll have to fire up ResEdit and rip out the resources out of the System file.

edit: holy mackeral that thing is using up nearly 6MiB of space just idle connected to a file server? daaaaaang yeah let's get that thing off that machine that's 7.5 or 7.6.1 numbers. i wonder how much memory it would gobble up with OT 1.3 installed

edit 2: double check complete. File Sharing Software copies over Network Extension, File Sharing Extension, Sharing Setup and may do a few other minor adjustments to the System file or something but yeah even without File Sharing Software you still get AppleShare, Chooser and the "atalk" stuff in the System file.

 

[pfuentes69]

Wow, @Mk.558 thanks a lot for so much effort!

Did you get to see other computers in the network? Because that’s mostly my issue…

 

[Mk.558]

I only had the IIci hooked up directly to the mac mini G4 via the ol' trusty Farallon iPrint LT AppleTalk bridge, but I could have added a router and had more machines I could connect to.

Why don't you tell me more info about your network and systems and I'll see about helping out?

 

[pfuentes69]

I only had the IIci hooked up directly to the mac mini G4 via the ol' trusty Farallon iPrint LT AppleTalk bridge, but I could have added a router and had more machines I could connect to.

Why don't you tell me more info about your network and systems and I'll see about helping out?

I'm using now an Asante LocalTalk to Ethernet bridge, which I used before and worked normally, and on the Ethernet side (which works fine) I have always a Raspberry Pi running Netatalk, and I also tried with an LC475.
I'll try again the hardware side... it would be surprising that the serial port is wrong, but all can happen... I'll hook directly the PB with the LC and see like that.

 

[Mk.558]

I have heard reports in the past (it's been a while since I can recall anything specific) that some users have reported some minor quirks about the AsanteTalk bridge.

You should also test the serial port. Easy way to do that is put ZTerm 0.9 on both ends, or any terminal emulator really, set both ends for something like 9600 8N1, connect to each other and mash the keyboard a few times. If you get the same output on the other screen, you're good. The CMN Guide can tell you more about that if you need help with it in the Serial Data Interlinks section.

 

[pfuentes69]

You should also test the serial port.

Yes, I'll do that when I I have time to do the setup with the two machines.

 

[pfuentes69]

I have heard reports in the past (it's been a while since I can recall anything specific) that some users have reported some minor quirks about the AsanteTalk bridge.

Just came back to say that it seems indeed related to the bridge. With direct cable AppleTalk works and Chooser allows to connect to the other machine, but not with the bridge.
It's weird because I tested it before and it worked... I'll see in case it works with a different serial cable to link the Mac and the bridge.

 

[cheesestraws]

The AsanteTalk bridges are weird and glitchy and if you don't do things in the right order they can just quietly fail to work. So it's not just you.

 

[Mk.558]

Just came back to say that it seems indeed related to the bridge.

Sorry to state there's nothing I can advise further. I have not had a single problem with my Farallon iPrint LT (neat thing, too damn expensive on eBay these days though, but ATM there's one up there for $90 which isn't too bad) but you can still try using another Mac as a bridge box. Glancing at your signature, I'd probably regulate the Wallstreet to bridge duty. You can run LocalTalk Bridge software to bridge Ethernet to the serial port for AFP, and then run IPNetRouter to route TCP traffic via MacIP to the serial ports too.

 

[LaPorta]

iPrint LT here I've used for over twenty years never a single issue either. If someone would volunteer to reverse-engineer the thing, I'd donate (as long as I could get it back in working condition).