Installing/restoring AppleTalk on System 7.0.1

[xantufrog]

In the process of trying to get my Mac SE to connect to a shared drive on my piscsi and I’m in over my head - the Mac can use the piscsi as an emulated hdd and network card fine, but I can’t figure out how to get AppleTalk working with it. Part of the problem (I think) is I don’t seem to have AppleTalk!

Chooser shows AppleShare (not Talk) and doesn’t see the piscsi, and I do not have the control panel for AppleTalk people have been telling me to check for port configuration.

all that is to say: I’m pretty sure I’m missing system software now and wondering if anyone knows how I can install the AppleTalk control panel so that I can get this functionality working (assuming prior owner deleted it or it was lost in the process of system 7 upgrade). The issue is I don’t think it’s a standalone thing one downloads from macintoshgarden

 

[cheesestraws]

AppleShare is the right thing. AppleShare is the file sharing part of the AppleTalk stack.

I assume you are trying to do this over the emulated ethernet interface provided by the piscsi. Have you installed the drivers for it?

 

[xantufrog]

AppleShare is the right thing. AppleShare is the file sharing part of the AppleTalk stack.

I assume you are trying to do this over the emulated ethernet interface provided by the piscsi. Have you installed the drivers for it?

I see - but there’s no control panel for AppleTalk/share? I’ve been told by a number of people to go to that and check the port settings.

I am trying over the emulated network card. It is on Wi-Fi, if that matters. I did install the drivers on the pi, but I’ve done everything (Wi-Fi bridge, afp, ethernet emulator) using the easyinstall.sh script so perhaps I need to do something custom?

the setup in general works great for internet use

 

[cheesestraws]

I see - but there’s no control panel for AppleTalk/share? I’ve been told by a number of people to go to that and check the port settings.

The AppleTalk control panel turns up in much newer system software than you have, and won't work on the SE anyway. The control panel you're looking for is called "Network", and it should be in the Control Panels folder.

the setup in general works great for internet use

OK that's a good sign. Look for the Network control panel. If that isn't there, go and get hold of the Network Software Installer disc and install that.

 

[xantufrog]

The AppleTalk control panel turns up in much newer system software than you have, and won't work on the SE anyway. The control panel you're looking for is called "Network", and it should be in the Control Panels folder.



OK that's a good sign. Look for the Network control panel. If that isn't there, go and get hold of the Network Software Installer disc and install that.

Ah ok - I do have the network control panel! Do you have advice on what I should check to start debugging?

things I know: on the Mac side, I have my tcp/ip set up and it works well - can browse the web(ish) with macweb and have all sorts of fun with telnet, including logging onto the pi itself and using Lynx
On the pi side, the easy setup script created the share folder successfully, and if I type the command

• lsmod | grep appletalk

from the piscsi wiki it does return an AppleTalk entry without error (although I don’t know what I am looking for otherwise

I appreciate all the help!

 

[cheesestraws]

Ah ok - I do have the network control panel! Do you have advice on what I should check to start debugging?

Open the Network control panel and check that Alternate Ethernet is selected, for starters. I think that's what the interface will be called. It's probably defaulting to the wrong port.

 

[Udo.Keller]

And keep in mind, in a PiSCSI with wireless Pi setup, AppleTalk won't work to communicate with other devices on the network.

 

[xantufrog]

And keep in mind, in a PiSCSI with wireless Pi setup, AppleTalk won't work to communicate with other devices on the network.

But it will communicate with the Pi, right? That's all I want - to be able to share files directly in a directory between the Pi and its connected Mac

 

[cheesestraws]

But it will communicate with the Pi, right? That's all I want - to be able to share files directly in a directory between the Pi and its connected Mac

I believe so.

The thing is that it's possible to use separate interfaces for AppleTalk and IP, so just selecting Ethernet in MacTCP won't move AppleTalk traffic. This is so that, for example, you can have a LocalTalk LAN and dial-up Internet and both will work at the same time.

This is why you need to check the Network control panel, because that's what controls what network interface is used for AppleTalk.

 

[xantufrog]

I believe so.

The thing is that it's possible to use separate interfaces for AppleTalk and IP, so just selecting Ethernet in MacTCP won't move AppleTalk traffic. This is so that, for example, you can have a LocalTalk LAN and dial-up Internet and both will work at the same time.

This is why you need to check the Network control panel, because that's what controls what network interface is used for AppleTalk.

Hm, unfortunately, switching the network control from LocalTalk Built In to EtherTalk Alternative didn't change whether the file server is detected in chooser (it didn't break connection, at least, so it's equally web connected either way).

This shows at least proof of concept that appletalk is (I think?) Set up ok on the connected PI (and I can access it via telnet from the mac!)

 

[robin-fo]

What happens if you do a „nbplkup“ on the Pi? If you get an error, try
sudo systemctl restart atalkd
sudo systemctl restart afpd

(Not 100% sure about the commands)

 

[cheesestraws]

This shows at least proof of concept that appletalk is (I think?) Set up ok on the connected PI (and I can access it via telnet from the mac!)

This doesn't demonstrate it's set up right, it just demonstrates that it's loaded. That's like seeing that the IP stack is loaded and going "well, IP must be set up right".

Agree with @robin-fo that nmblkup is probably your friend. Also check whether the interface has an AppleTalk address assigned. But this is starting to sound like a PiSCSI problem rather than a mac problem to me.

 

[xantufrog]

Ok, so nbplkup did fail the first time. I ran the suggested commands and the second time it didn't return anything (error or otherwise)

On the Mac, just to be sure, I'm currently using "Ethernet Built-In" in MacTCP (not "EtherTalk (A)"), and in Network control panel I am using "EtherTalk Alternative" and not "LocalTalk Built In"

I think you're right, it's probably the piscsi configuration. I didn't mess with anything beyond the scope of the easyinstall.sh script, so I'm surprised there's an issue.

 

[cheesestraws]

You're using Ethernet (Built In) on MacTCP? Is that an option available to you in the Network control panel? If so, use that.

 

[xantufrog]

You're using Ethernet (Built In) on MacTCP? Is that an option available to you in the Network control panel? If so, use that.

It's not, unfortunately - only EtherTalk Alternative and LocalTalk Built In are available in the Network control panel


I do now this from the piscsi wiki and am wondering if I'm out of luck simply because I'm on wifi with the Pi... I can bring it into the lab for a wired ethernet connection to try I suppose

""Note: The AppleTalk/DDP protocol is known to work poorly over a wifi AP, unless you're using an Apple branded wifi router or one that explicitly supports it.""

 

[cheesestraws]

OK. I think you're going to have to talk to PiSCSI folks then to work out how it should be set up.

 

[xantufrog]

OK. I think you're going to have to talk to PiSCSI folks then to work out how it should be set up.

Makes sense - I really appreciate all the help, and if I get it working I'll update everyone on how!

 

[cheesestraws]

Oh, the key word, by the way, is that you are using Classic Networking and not Open Transport, and you have to use Classic Networking because you're on an SE. Open Transport is the newer software with the AppleTalk and TCP/IP control panels; Classic Networking is the older one with Network and MacTCP. Open Transport doesn't work on computers as old as yours, and I think people are assuming that people are running Open Transport.

 

[robin-fo]

It's not, unfortunately - only EtherTalk Alternative and LocalTalk Built In are available in the Network control panel

Huh? But EtherTalk Alternative should be the right choice for the PiSCSI.

 

[cheesestraws]

Huh? But EtherTalk Alternative should be the right choice for the PiSCSI.

That's what I thought, too - but OP says that MacTCP is using "built-in" and that's apparently working? I dunno, I'm going to defer this one to people who know PiSCSI.