Am I too dumb to burn a pre-OSX CD?

[Phipli]

the imac has the original Optiarc Drive (device delivered by Apple)
On my Macbook I use a Hitachi external USB Burner via USB3. Never had a problem, but I also only burned 2 CDs so far

I meant in the 6400, but it is fine if it is booting other OS CDs.

Do you need an original CD, or can I just make you a bootable CD with the installer on it?

I don't have any bootable 8.5 disks, and not in German.

It was German you needed wasn't it?

 

[Phipli]

I burnt the German Mac OS 8.5 from download #2 here to a CD and was able to boot from it, so the issue is how you're burning it, or something about your Performa.

 

[LaPorta]

Not to be a kill-joy or anything, but does anyone have a known-good, original German 8.5 they can image for the OP and send it over to try?

EDIT: Sorry, for some reason, Phipli’s last response regarding getting the image to work did not load before I posted.

 

[LaPorta]

@Phipli, im also a bit confused regarding the HFS+ thing. The disc you successfully made, is it HFS+ formatted under Get Info in the finder? What is wrong with the disc being HFS+ even if it is, anyway?

 

[chelseayr]

@Phipli have to agree with your first post here, i've read a mix of a few 650mb (been written onto to so many times i'm a bit surprised its dye is still reliable..) and handful of 700mb rewrites on a wide mismash of drives including performa-specific apple 2x scsi or an old dos nec's yamaha cdr drives .. although I do have to admit that specifically the maxwell 36x discs didn't seem to even like to burn on a particular [temporary ownership] hp drive that only could do 2x rewrites maximum

 

[Phipli]

@Phipli, im also a bit confused regarding the HFS+ thing. The disc you successfully made, is it HFS+ formatted under Get Info in the finder?

What is wrong with the disc being HFS+ even if it is, anyway?

CDs were usually, if not always HFS. It isn't something I'd worry about, except that the fact that they seem to be saying they took a HFS image and when they burned it, it became a HFS+ disk, which means that the authoring software edited the content. A very bad sign when you're trying to write a bootable CD. You're trying to clone a disk, not create a theme and variations tribute to the original

 

[LaPorta]

Absolutely you don’t want that, I agree. I just wasn’t sure if post-OS 8 discs were HFS+…I never looked, to be honest. “Theme and variations”…I love it

 

[MrFahrenheit]

Absolutely you don’t want that, I agree. I just wasn’t sure if post-OS 8 discs were HFS+…I never looked, to be honest. “Theme and variations”…I love it

That’s actually the problem with some of the OS install CD ISO images on the Mac OS Anthology set put out by Apple.

Likely unrelated to the issue at hand here, but interesting to note if anyone is trying to pull images off of that Anthology set to use, read on!

Some brilliant person at Apple decided to remaster some of the Mac OS bootable install CDs for the project using the HFS+ file format. Not a big deal, right? Except they did it to pre-OS 8 CDs!

Some of the 7.6 and earlier CD ISOs on the set are a useless HFS+. What’s even worse: when they redid the set a couple of years later, they never fixed the problem!

 

[Moloko]

Geez people, one night can make a differnece!

Yes I have working retail install CDs, but only US English region ones.

It would be very nie if you could provide me with this OS. English is fine.

I burnt the German Mac OS 8.5 from download #2 here to a CD and was able to boot from it, so the issue is how you're burning it, or something about your Performa.

Press X to doubt. Because the OS 7.6.1 from macos9lives works perfectly. Only one attempt. BUT I guess this image was made on a real old PPC machine using toast with the bootable checkbox checked. It was also wrapped in a .bin archive. And I don't even know if ,bin is still a thing in MacOS X.

I burnt the German Mac OS 8.5 from download #2 here to a CD and was able to boot from it, so the issue is how you're burning it, or something about your Performa.

Was this a G3 or after? Performas (PPC603e) is a different architecture and more or less different processor

have to agree with your first post here, i've read a mix of a few 650mb -----e that only could do 2x rewrites maximum

Yes. But this was a problem with very old amchines. and 700 MB only means that the CD-R CAN handle 700MB. If you burn e.G. 200 MB on it no problem. That is why you never make a 650 MB iamge for 200MB of date especially if it is a system or a bootable system. This is going to fail on old machines. It won't fail on G3 and after machines.

-------------------

My guess is the following: people have made copies of the maybe even original CDs with macos X or even in the classic environment in Mac OS X but never checked the "bootable" checkbox in Toast. I know that, becasue I had the same problem back in the late 90s when I was surprised that OS CDs I made weren't bootable on my friends Max.

In the "old days" you could just make a copy of the system folder, place the system folder on the new harddrive, drop the finder and I think it was the system file on the dektop (that gave the 2 files the "bless" bit"), move these 2 files back into the system folder and bang: you had a bootable drive. Pre-OS X is VERY different from MacOS X.

 

[Phipli]

Was this a G3 or after? Performas (PPC603e) is a different architecture and more or less different processor

A 7200/75.

The processor makes no difference in this case.

Press X to doubt.

OK.... So I imagined it and faked the photos in a trance?

My guess is the following: people have made copies of the maybe even original CDs with macos X or even in the classic environment in Mac OS X but never checked the "bootable" checkbox in Toast. I know that, becasue I had the same problem back in the late 90s when I was surprised that OS CDs I made weren't bootable on my friends Max.

In the "old days" you could just make a copy of the system folder, place the system folder on the new harddrive, drop the finder and I think it was the system file on the dektop (that gave the 2 files the "bless" bit"), move these 2 files back into the system folder and bang: you had a bootable drive. Pre-OS X is VERY different from MacOS X.

It isn't exactly like this with an ISO (or a bin cue). The ISO is meant to be a full image of the disk including the bootable flag and the driver needed. ISOs only become an issue when the software doesn't write them properly.

The process you're describing is how to make your own bootable CD, in which case Toast used the CD driver from the active System Folder.

 

[joshc]

@Moloko Can you confirm the following please. Sorry if already stated in other posts, I'd just like to clear up any confusion or unknown information so that we can help you.

• What machine, OS, and burning software you are using to burn the disc?
• What brand and type of disc you are using? (Maxell CD-R?)
• What speed you are writing the disc at?
• The exact steps you are following when you burn a disc?

As it's now been verified that the image you are trying to burn has the right partition map to be bootable if its burned in the right way, confirming the above would help us guide you in the right direction.

 

[Moloko]

• What machine, OS, and burning software you are using to burn the disc?
• What brand and type of disc you are using? (Maxell CD-R?)
• What speed you are writing the disc at?
• The exact steps you are following when you burn a disc?

3 machines:
iMac 10,1 with Mac OS 10.6.8, onboard CD Burner or burn 1.7 (I won't use this machine any longer because the onboard tools only write MacOS Extended, burn writes HFS Standard)
Mac Mini 6,1 Mac OS 10.9.5, onboard tools or burn 3.16
MacBook Pro 11,4 MacOS Big Sur, onboard tools, burn 3.17

with the i Mac I used the internal CD burner, or alternative my external Hitachi burner
the Hitachi burner was also used with the Mac mini and my Macbook Pro
I also tried Toast 8 and 11 on the iMac which produces HFS Standard discs but they cant be booted.

And again: the OS 7.6.1 from Macos9lives burned in one attempt wihtout any problem. They 8.5 from MacOS9 lives is a G3 installer CD and not a universal disc.

I think I will end this thread here and go on search for an original OS 8.5 CD or a MacMini G4.

Thanks for all your help and effort!

 

[Moloko]

addendum:

I read something interesting on macos9lives:

Instructions: Most of our files have been encoded with MacBinary format (.bin) so that the data and the resource fork of the file will not be damaged when storing the file on a non-Macintosh file system. After downloading, if the file does not automatically decode by double-clicking, we recommend opening StuffIt Expander and Selecting "File" and "Open" to decode the downloaded file. StuffIt Expander is included in every Mac OS 9 installation. Additionally, once the StuffIt Expander app is open, check EDIT > PREFERENCES > INTERNET and "use stuffit expander for all available types"

Well, all my macos x machines use a non Macintosh filesystem (non HFS). That would explain why the 7.6.1 disc worked without any problem.

 

[Phipli]

addendum:

I read something interesting on macos9lives:

Instructions: Most of our files have been encoded with MacBinary format (.bin) so that the data and the resource fork of the file will not be damaged when storing the file on a non-Macintosh file system. After downloading, if the file does not automatically decode by double-clicking, we recommend opening StuffIt Expander and Selecting "File" and "Open" to decode the downloaded file. StuffIt Expander is included in every Mac OS 9 installation. Additionally, once the StuffIt Expander app is open, check EDIT > PREFERENCES > INTERNET and "use stuffit expander for all available types"

Well, all my macos x machines use a non Macintosh filesystem (non HFS). That would explain why the 7.6.1 disc worked without any problem.

An ISO file doesn't have a resource fork, so will be fine. Unless you're taking files out of the ISO?

 

[LaPorta]

Not sure I really understand what you are getting at with the above. All your OS X based machines should use HFS+ file systems. How would they use "non-Macintosh" file systems? Also, your disc images won't have resources, so it doesn't matter.

 

[Phipli]

I think I will end this thread here and go on search for an original OS 8.5 CD or a MacMini G4.

Mac Minis won't boot 8.5 I don't think. Its a hack to run even 9.2.2.

 

[robin-fo]

Unless you're taking files out of the ISO?

I really hope he didn‘t do this

 

[LaPorta]

Mac Minis won't boot 8.5 I don't think. Its a hack to run even 9.2.2.

That is correct for sure.

 

[robin-fo]

I won't use this machine any longer because the onboard tools only write MacOS Extended, burn writes HFS Standard)

I mean of course if you mount the image, copy everything into a burning folder (or Toast) and write it to a CD, you will certainly get a HFS+ hybrid CD, even readable on a PC and certainly not bootable

But I don’t assume you did this, didn‘t you?

 

[Moloko]

Okay, so I downloaded 8.1 from macos9lives did exactly the same things (burned CD on my MacBook Pro/BigSur/Burn 3.1.7/external HitachiBurner via USB 3.: it boots installs and reboots, no problem!