Procedure to load OS9 on separate partition after OSX

[Swabbie]

Hello,

I thought I knew how to do this but it’s not working for me.

System: G4 Gigabit/ 500Gb SATA SSD (IDE-SATA Adapted. Pins set to “Slave”) 6 Gb IDE (“Master”) /500 MB RAM.

SSD Partition scheme:
77 Gb (OS 10.4)
30 Gb (Set aside for OS9)
10 Gb (10.4 Boot load)
10 Gb (Set aside for OS9 boot load)

6GB IDE HDD (OS 10.4)

Here’s the steps I tried:

Downloaded 9.0 and 9.2.2 universal from MacintoshGarden

unzipped and mounted .iso with Toast 9.

CDRW Image appeared on desktop.

Tried methods:

method 1:

dragged system folder to OS9 boot disk.

Tried to make it “blessed” by dragging system suitcase out of and back into system folder. NOTE: system suitcase folder isn’t a suitcase shape.

Launch preferences > startup disk: Drive shows up with OS9 logo over Drive logoChoose this. Restart.

boot chime, OS 9 starts loading then I get THIS ERROR

method 2:

From within 77 Gb Booted partition: Double click OS9 CDRW image. Double click install. OS9 and installation software show up and start bouncing in dock below. OS 9 window appears and OS9 starts loading then I get the same error as before.

NOTE: I tried this method from inside the 6GB HDD by copying the 9 CDRW disk image into the desktop image as well while booted into SSD. No change.

Method 3: Burned OS9 CDRW image at 1x speed. Load and Boot into this disk.

Same error.

Method 4: Booted into OS 10.4 boot disk. Launch disk utility. Attempt Restore OS9 disk to OS9 Boot Disk Partition using drag and drop. NOTE: System Suitcase is Greyed out. Process finishes. Preferences > startup disk > choose OS 9 Boot Disk.

SAME ERROR!

tried all 4 methods with 9.2.2 universal as well.

I’m out of ideas. Wth am I doing wrong and what does this error verbiage mean? Is it some sort of copyright protection scheme to prevent us from using anything but a retail disk?

 

[Skate323k137]

I always install OS9 first, then 10.x. The hard drive needs the legacy OS9 drivers present if I remember right and I'm not sure you can do that in inverse order (I very well could be wrong though)

 

[Cory5412]

It sounds like the OS 9 drivers weren't installed on that disk. It iwll need to be repartitioned and reformatted before it can be booted by OS 9 or seen by OS 9 at all.

You can install OS 9 drivers when you're partitioning with OS X - I believe it's in the advanced area of disk utility when you're partitioning, but it's easier and more straightforward to do it from 9 and its partitioning utility.

For a Gigabit Ethernet, the 9.2.1 retail CD should work great, but if the "universal" disc does boot and work and if your software is stable on it, then that's also an option. (Apple didn't officially publish any of their own 9.2.2 CDs for retail or generic use, but the emac 2003 CD may work and some people have compiled their own copies of 9.2.2 based on files that were added to 9.2.1 + 9.2.2 update for the tibook/867-1000, powermac g4 mdd, qs'02, and the two 9-capable emac revs from 2003.

 

[Swabbie]

Ok. I’m going to start over w this SSD and use my modern Mac to partition and restore.

One problem I always have though - no matter what I chose in a modern Mac for format, the legacy macs never recognize the partitions and want me to ignore or initialize.

Is this a feature and not a bug? Because it bugs the hell out of me. Even when I chose the exact same format (eg Mac OS Extended; GUID etc) it does this. Now, modern macs seem to recognize my formatting when done from a legacy system.

Is this just the way it is or some operator error on my part.

EDIT: So I just read on the apple support page https://support.apple.com/guide/disk-utility/partition-schemes-dsku1c614201/21.0/mac/12.0

That I select GUID for intel macs and Apple Partition Map for PowerPC. That’s probably why I always have this issue. Gonna give it a try.

 

[Cory5412]

Sorry for the confusion, I missed the picture the first time through.

So, if your disk and partitions shows up when your booted from an OS 9 CD, then you're golden on that front. If not, boot from a 9 CD and use the partitioning or disk setup tool, it won't give you many but what it makes will work for both OS 9 and OS X.

To install OS 9, run the installer instead of copying the installer from the CD (or CD image) to a disk. The installer will lay a 9 system folder with whatever components you choose on the disk

I still recommend using the retail OS 9.2.1 CD. If MacGarden doesn't have the retail ISOs, grab one of the retail 9 ISOs from here: http://vtools.68kmla.org/~/coryw/iso-temp/ (only one at a time, I have slow upload) and burn them on a modern computer. (the files are all Zips with ISOs inside).


One thing to be aware of (and it looks based on your map above that you may already know this) is that OS 9 and OS X may not be able to see and use more than roughly 128 or 137 (forget which) gigs of the disk without additional help. You can work around that with a PCI SATA control (SiI 3112 with the right firmware or a newer IDE controller).

 

[Swabbie]

So part of the problem is I don’t have an OS 9 Disk that will actually boot. I slow 1x burned a 9.0 and a 9.2.2. using MacGarden offerings but Neither will boot holding down C. It tries then kicks out and moves on the next good OS which is OS 10.4.

I will try your link to get a 9.2.1. I’ll be gentle on your server. Thank you

Yes. Another person here has been helping me to try and get the rest of my 500Gb to be usable. I’m gonna tackle that once I get 9 and X sorted.

Thank you for your help!

 

[3lectr1cPPC]

So, if your disk and partitions shows up when your booted from an OS 9 CD, then you're golden on that front.

I could be wrong, but my iBook G3 refused to boot OS 9. Drives were recognized by the CD and installer but it just wouldn't boot. I reformatted the drive with drivers enabled and it worked. Not sure if the drivers were installed before or if it was a different disk issue, but it was fixed either way.

 

[Cory5412]

If you saw the partitions when you were booted from an OS 9 CD, the partitioning and drivers should be fine and something else is wrong.

What iBook is it and what OS 9 CD did you use? Some of the later iBook G3s are very close to that point where you really do need to use the original CD, or hope that the eMac'03 or "universal" CD work well.

 

[3lectr1cPPC]

I had a thread here where I went into detail on everything I tried - it was a bit tricky as that iBook’s CD-ROM drives doesn’t do well with burned disks.

 

[Cory5412]

Oh, I misunderstood what you meant and thought this still wasn't working.

To be honest: No idea why what you had happen happen and this is one of the reasons on systems that support it I recommend installing 9 and using 9's disk partitioning tools, when you want to use OS 9.

Mac OS X added a lot of capabilities beyond what 9 knows about and can handle and it wouldn't surprise me to find out there's some other restriction going on that we either didn't catch because of incomplete information or just isn't something widely tried/known yet.

 

[Skate323k137]

I always figured that when people were installing both, the majority would have been going from 9 to OSX, so I install in that order, if for no other reason than it's what the masses were doing at the time.

 

[3lectr1cPPC]

I have always used the OS X Disk Utility simply because it has an option for journaling whereas the OS 9 tool doesn’t. I have absolutely no idea if that makes any differ in performance or not, nor have I done any research into it whatsoever. I just always used it because I never had any problem with it. I could be completely wrong, it’s just what I’ve always done.

 

[LaPorta]

As an aside: burn speed doesn't mean anything. I burn everything at the max possible on a modern drive and it all works fine. I have a feeling it is just folklore.

You likely have yet to find a disc that will start a G4 gigabit for some reason. 9.0 won't work (minimum for G4 gigabit appears to be 9.0.4), but the 9.2.2 should. Depends on how they were copied as a disk image. I have some that will work, bur Cory's should do just fine.

I'd just use OS X Disk Utility...just make sure "Install OS 9 Disk Drivers" is checked off when reformatting the partition.

 

[Swabbie]

So, major breakthrough on this. Turns out I had what looks like 3 things going on that had to be rectified. 1) I wasn’t checking the “locked” box on the iso before burning. I’m learned on the MacGarden comments for the 9.2.1 page that this will make a coaster every time if it’s not checked. 2) my optical drive and/or my hard drive had issues. I replaced both the optical drive for a new old stock LG SuperMulti and put a brand new 2.5” SSD in. The guy (tomtom) on MacGarden also walked me through how to properly burn an iso in disk utility. I had been doing it wrong. (Was double clicking the iso and tryin to burn the white rectangular disk rather than the iso. I also learned to drag the iso ALLLLthe way over to the lower section of the left most column to get it to “mount” in Disk Utility. I had always been trying to drag and drop stuff into the source and destination fields.

Anyway - than you all for your help. I’ve only been trying to make this work for going on two weeks now. Feels good to finally have this behind me and think about all the cool stuff I learned along the way.

 

[Cory5412]

major breakthrough

Great to hear this is working!

journaling

As one example of a thing that didn't exist in OS 9.

You can reformat individual partitions in OS X once you've partitioned the disk and put down an OS 9 install, including enabling journaling, if you want.

Journaling was a reliability thing, not a performance thing, the idea if I remember right was to make the filesystem more resilient in the event that a computer crashed for some reason. I would presume (but this may not be accurate because I'm not a filesystem developer) that there is an additional overhead because it is writing more information about what's being done on the filesystem. It's not a bad idea to use it on OS X, but it's not explicitly a good idea to enable it on volumes where you're installing OS 9, unless it's a dual-boot volume.

Journaling will, as mentioned, only do anything when you're booted to OS X.

Another thing OS X, 10.2/3/4+ support that 9 doesn't, (in theory) is disks over 2TB. Though, if you're putting >2TB disks in a PPC Mac, my recommendation is to run that machine on OS X exclusively anyway, or plan on your big disks not being visible to OS 9.

The other thing OS 9 does poorly with is boot volumes bigger than just about 200GB, so if you had a big disk in that machine and it was originally partitioned for one, say, 320-gig partition, that may be another part of why 9 wouldn't boot until you repartitioned it, but I didn't 'see that detail so I'm just guessing. (Helpfully, Mac OS 9 will let you make >200gb partitions with no trouble, and they work great for everything except booting.)

I always figured that when people were installing both, the majority would have been going from 9 to OSX, so I install in that order, if for no other reason than it's what the masses were doing at the time.

It is technically possible to do the reverse, install OS X and then add OS 9 later, but you are exactly right here. The best "don't overthink it" way to do this is to install OS 9 first, except on system where the only officially support method of loading 9 was via an OS X app. (basically all the last machines to run os 9 were like this, the TiBook 867/1000 I know for sure had this setup because I had one of those new, the main exception is the eMac, likely because Apple expected eMac buyers to have software from the '90s and/or 9-centric networks, similar to the education-only QS'02 AppleShare IP 6.3.3 server.)

 

[cheesestraws]

Was double clicking the iso and tryin to burn the white rectangular disk rather than the iso

Ahhhh, that'll do it. And you'll end up with a disc that looks right, but won't boot.

 

[3lectr1cPPC]

Thanks for all info Cory! The disk I was using was only 20GB, so no size issue there. I had figured as much for journaling, I usually dual-boot on the same partition nowadays but I have used multiple in the past so it’s good to have my suspicions confirmed.