adding a Mac Classic to a network

[MrStyle]

I have a Macintosh Classic (7.0.1• or 7.5.5) that I am trying to add to my existing network via an Asante LocalTalk/Ethernet box (link lights good).

I have an aluminum PowerBook G4 (10.5.6), an original AirPort Base Station, a home made PC (XP SP3), a Brother laser printer, and an iMac G3 (10.4.11/9.2.2). They all see & talk to each other fine, connected together with a dumb 10T hub.

I've tried getting file sharing working between the iMac (running 9.2.2, of course) and the Classic and I've also tried setting up the Classic with a manual IP address (can't seem to ping it).

It's definitely some sort of a compatibility issue, either between 7.5.5 & 9.2.2 or the hardware disparity between the iMac & Classic. I'd like to get file sharing working, but if I can get IP I can set up ftp. Any ideas? Thanks.

 

[equill]

Support for AppleTalk was dropped from OS X v10.4 onwards. However, TCP/IP will suffice to mount drives from Macs running OS 9.1 to 10.4.x on a Tiger machine. You can mount a Tiger Mac's drive's alias on a client if the client runs from OS 7.6.1 to 10.4.x. The referenced thread is one of several in these Forums about networking.

The Macs with OS <7.6.1 must use a two-step process through an intermediary that is accessible to oldie and new alike. To preserve your sanity, the 68000 machines are best managed through EN/SC adapters and 10Base-T hubs into the existing autonegotiating (100Base-T) network. And despite my prior statement, I certainly have OS 10.4.11 Macs addressing OS 9.2.2 Macs as the servers without problem.

de

 

[porter]

I thought a Classic can only go to 7.5.5

I've had mixed results with the Asante LocalTalk/Ethernet bridge. Seems the times it worked best were when there was also an AppleTalk router on the network (using Windows 2k server).

I am currently connecting my Classic to a Performa 6200 running LocalTalk bridge using a printer cable. I then have a MacIP gateway running on a NetBSD server.

 

[equill]

I'm not quite sure what impelled your opening question. Certainly EveryMac lists 6.0.7 to 7.5.5 for the Classic. However, an 8-MHz 68000 Mac with 1-4MB of RAM is already breathless under 7.5, and hides under the table if you even think about putting 7.5.5 onto it. I find that a Classic is happiest under the 'constructed' 7.1.3, and even then does not do as well as a 68030 Mac with 7.1.3 because of the CPU difference. A Classic chokes on obligatory 32-bit stuff.

de

 

[MrStyle]

I'm sorry, but I get the feeling that my question is being misunderstood.

Here's the physical setup, minus the PB G4, laser printer, and PC:

iMac G3 (9.2.2)

man IP 10.0.1.51

|

dumb 10T Enet hub<----->original silver AirPort 10.0.1.1

|

Asante LT/Enet box

|

Mac Classic (7.0.1• OR 7.5.5, which ever will work, plus MacTCP)

man IP 10.0.1.53

The Classic is not responding to ping commands, and neither the iMac or Classic see each other via file sharing. Installing on the Classic Network Software 1.5.1 & AppleShare Client 3.5 on 7.0.1• or AppleShare Client 3.6.5 on 7.5.5 have not helped. I know the Asante box works, and I was able to network two Classics via LocalTalk, and the iMac file shares fine with my PowerBook and PC, so it shouldn't be a hardware issue.

Anyone have any suggestions? I'd prefer to get file sharing working, but I'll settle for getting IP working so I can file share via ftp instead. Thanks.

 

[MrMacPlus]

Any 68000 mac should run system 6, 7.0.1 for those special instances.

 

[porter]

The Classic is not responding to ping commands

Macs need a TCP/IP programming running first to get the TCP/IP stack loaded. Try NCSA Telnet.

 

[MrStyle]

I figured it out, from info I found on Asante's web site. The solution isn't obvious & is a bit convoluted.

The AsanteTalk box must be off (unplugged, there's no switch) until after the Macintosh Classic is fully started up and has initialized AppleTalk. I waited until File Sharing was started up as a visible sign of that, plugged in the AsanteTalk, waited twice the advised 15 seconds, then the iMac & Classic FINALLY saw each other! I've been trying off & on to get this working for 3 weeks or so. I thought it was a software thing.

I've got it working with 7.5.5 & AppleShare Client 3.6.5. It doesn't work with the more trim 7.0.1•, Network Software 1.5.1, & AppleShare Client 3.5. MacTCP isn't working. I think the AsanteTalk box simply won't pass IP through.

Shufflepuck Cafe and Crystal Quest are sweet old games if you've never tried them.

Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[porter]

MacTCP isn't working. I think the AsanteTalk box simply won't pass IP through.

Yes it will, but IP is encapsulated in DDP packets as "Mac-IP" over LocalTalk. You need a Mac-IP gateway. I use a NetBSD box with a MacIP gateway I wrote myself, this does work over the Asante box.

 

[MrStyle]

MacTCP isn't working. I think the AsanteTalk box simply won't pass IP through.

Yes it will, but IP is encapsulated in DDP packets as "Mac-IP" over LocalTalk. You need a Mac-IP gateway. I use a NetBSD box with a MacIP gateway I wrote myself, this does work over the Asante box.

Am I right in guessing that that is not just a software solution? I'm thinking that's probably more effort than I want to put into it if it is. Thanks.

 

[porter]

Am I right in guessing that that is not just a software solution? I'm thinking that's probably more effort than I want to put into it if it is. Thanks.

Software needs hardware to run on, but in theory you could run a Mac-IP gateway on the iMac G3 you have. The trick is to get hold of one.

I wrote my own and it runs on any UNIX with ppp and AppleTalk.

 

[mfort]

I have been writing a Mac IP Gateway also, but mine will run on a Mac that doesn't have Appletalk (Tiger, Leopard, etc).

It works fine for statically configured MacTCP or OpenTransport assigned addresses, but I still have work on the dynamic assignment.

I use the bpf mechanism for better or worse and have the subset of AppleTalk implemented.

I would be willing to share source code with anyone that wants to see it. The only think I ask in return is help improving it.

 

[napabar]

Support for AppleTalk was dropped from OS X v10.4 onwards. However, TCP/IP will suffice to mount drives from Macs running OS 9.1 to 10.4.x on a Tiger machine. You can mount a Tiger Mac's drive's alias on a client if the client runs from OS 7.6.1 to 10.4.x. The referenced thread is one of several in these Forums about networking.
The Macs with OS <7.6.1 must use a two-step process through an intermediary that is accessible to oldie and new alike. To preserve your sanity, the 68000 machines are best managed through EN/SC adapters and 10Base-T hubs into the existing autonegotiating (100Base-T) network. And despite my prior statement, I certainly have OS 10.4.11 Macs addressing OS 9.2.2 Macs as the servers without problem.

de

Actually, a properly updated 7.5.x 68030 Mac can use TCP to connect over AppleShare all the way to Leopard. That would get us back to the 1988 Mac IIx. If you use a bridge machine running Shareway IP Standard, then you can share a Mac Plus running 7.x all the way to Leopard. Also, if you use a bridge machine, you can have a Mac 512k connect over AppleShare to Leopard directly, with a little help from Apple's built in disk image technology. Yes, this stuff has been my life lately!

 

[Dog Cow]

Support for AppleTalk was dropped from OS X v10.4 onwards. de

Incorrect. AppleTalk is still around, but its implementation had changed from 10.4 and earlier.

Mac OS X 10.5 Help: Setting up AppleTalk

Mac OS X: About File Sharing

 

[beachycove]

What you might call REAL Appletalk was indeed dropped from X.4 onwards, and replaced by the 'Appletalk, Jim, but not as we (used to) know it' of Appletalk over TCP/IP - but even then, this change applies only to file sharing. X.4- X.5 have kept the real thing for printing over Appletalk to (PostScript) Appletalk printers; no IP needed there, and they will print even to a localtalk printer if there is an Appletalk Router of some kind present (even Laserwriter Bridge should work for these purposes).

It's a shame the old protocol was dropped on the sharing side, so that a localtalk machine like a CII, which can see a X.4+ machine (when the network has an Appletalk Router, at any rate), cannot any longer connect to it. What would it have taken to keep the old standards in the system, after all, given that they were already there? Ho hum.

The next question is when even this MacOS8-era form of Appletalk will be dropped, along with support for the old LaserWriter printers and such. One day, comrades, this will happen.