snake88usa
Well-known member
Well I have a powerbook 5300 with a 190 screen... I assume the screen is the same? I know the 190 is a 68k and a 5300 is a powerpc, right?
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A weird 5300
- Thread starter snake88usa
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Elfen
Well-known member
Correct. The 190 is the 68040 and 5300 is the PowerPC of the (more or less) same laptop.
The 190 (b/w), 190C and 190CS shares the same screen with the 5300 (b/w), 5300C and 5300CS.
The 5300CE is the only laptop of the series that does not have the a 190CE counterpart.
There was a 190 68K to 5300 PPC upgrade where the motherboard is replaced with the badges. It also gave the 190 an IR port which was not available on the 190 except for as add-on option as a daughter board but was part of the motherboard on the 5300.
Throwing you a curve ball, the 2300Duo was a 5300 PPC with a smaller screen and Duo notebook motherboard but shared the 190/5300 CS active LCD screen. All three shared the same Enabler file for System 7.5.2 and all three had IDE Drives and trackpads.
The 190 (b/w), 190C and 190CS shares the same screen with the 5300 (b/w), 5300C and 5300CS.
The 5300CE is the only laptop of the series that does not have the a 190CE counterpart.
There was a 190 68K to 5300 PPC upgrade where the motherboard is replaced with the badges. It also gave the 190 an IR port which was not available on the 190 except for as add-on option as a daughter board but was part of the motherboard on the 5300.
Throwing you a curve ball, the 2300Duo was a 5300 PPC with a smaller screen and Duo notebook motherboard but shared the 190/5300 CS active LCD screen. All three shared the same Enabler file for System 7.5.2 and all three had IDE Drives and trackpads.
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snake88usa
Well-known member
Im trying to understand this weird machine.
Bottom says 5300 series. It has IR on the back.
However, if the motherboard was replaced then shouldnt it say Powerbook 5300? About this computer shows it as a 190... lol
Bottom says 5300 series. It has IR on the back.
However, if the motherboard was replaced then shouldnt it say Powerbook 5300? About this computer shows it as a 190... lol
CC_333
Well-known member
snake88usa: It's possible that it was thrown together using spare parts.
Elfen: I don't believe there was ever a 190c, since no 190 series machine had active matrix LCDs (based on my understanding of Apple's nomenclature at the time, nothing=Grayscale Passive Matrix LCD, cs=Color Passive Matrix LCD, c=Color Active Matrix LCD, ce=special HiRes 800x600 Color Active Matrix LCD (vs. 640x480 for the passive and active color displays and the passive grayscale displays)). In other words, the more expensive active matrix displays were reserved for the higher end 5300, while the cheaper 190/190cs got the passive matrix stuff.
c
Elfen: I don't believe there was ever a 190c, since no 190 series machine had active matrix LCDs (based on my understanding of Apple's nomenclature at the time, nothing=Grayscale Passive Matrix LCD, cs=Color Passive Matrix LCD, c=Color Active Matrix LCD, ce=special HiRes 800x600 Color Active Matrix LCD (vs. 640x480 for the passive and active color displays and the passive grayscale displays)). In other words, the more expensive active matrix displays were reserved for the higher end 5300, while the cheaper 190/190cs got the passive matrix stuff.
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Trash80toHP_Mini
NIGHT STALKER
Nope, no 190c
5300ce = Active Matrix @ 800x600 AND 117MHz Processor.
5300xx, 5300ce, 1400xx and 2300c were pretty much the same CPU/ChipSet on wildly different MoBos designed to meet some very interesting I/O configuration setups.
edit: CC's likely hit the nail on the head: FrankenBook
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5300ce = Active Matrix @ 800x600 AND 117MHz Processor.
5300xx, 5300ce, 1400xx and 2300c were pretty much the same CPU/ChipSet on wildly different MoBos designed to meet some very interesting I/O configuration setups.
edit: CC's likely hit the nail on the head: FrankenBook
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Macdrone
Well-known member
Someone took a 5300 bottom and put it on your 190. Same case. All the 5300's say 5300 series on the bottom but if about this mac says 190, its a 190. The only way to know if the IR is actually there is to pull the case apart. I have a 190 in a 5300 case also. It was just left over parts and I did not want it as parts so I made another 190.
snake88usa
Well-known member
Sounds good. The guy I got it from done about any uograde he could to his machines but I guess he just replaced the bottom. 
Elfen
Well-known member
Strange depending on the source you look for, there are entries for a 190C when searched on Google and elsewhere. I also have a (dead-non working) 190C with a big red sticker saying PowerPC Ready. I'm thinking that the 190C is rare since many owners upgraded them to PowerPC 5300C's. It was a simpler upgrade to make as one just upgrades the logic board and not the logic board and LCD to make a 190CS into a 5300C. But that is neither here nor there.
Snake88USA - you should have mentioned first those details you mentioned later. I would have given more details on it than just the generic info I have posted. Your machine, it seems, was a 5300 at one time, had a failure of some kind and had its motherboard replaced with a 190. Such repairs are known but are not Apple approved because you are "downgrading" the machine. Now, what else does this machine has? RAM, HD, screen, etc.?
And the 190s had the "glass" for the IR but not the module itself unless it was installed by the Apple Tech at the store it was bought. So it looked like all 190s had it but didn't. Apple, in its bright mind, thought it could sell the IR as a cheap add-on thinking that everyone would get it. They were wrong. Thus my two 190s have the IR Glass but not the module.
But the 190 is still a great machine no matter what configuration you ended up with.
Snake88USA - you should have mentioned first those details you mentioned later. I would have given more details on it than just the generic info I have posted. Your machine, it seems, was a 5300 at one time, had a failure of some kind and had its motherboard replaced with a 190. Such repairs are known but are not Apple approved because you are "downgrading" the machine. Now, what else does this machine has? RAM, HD, screen, etc.?
And the 190s had the "glass" for the IR but not the module itself unless it was installed by the Apple Tech at the store it was bought. So it looked like all 190s had it but didn't. Apple, in its bright mind, thought it could sell the IR as a cheap add-on thinking that everyone would get it. They were wrong. Thus my two 190s have the IR Glass but not the module.
So that explains how I was able to recently boot a 1400cs with a CF used as a hard drive on my 5300ce. I had my suspicions. Now to figure out why my 5300ce seems to be faster than my 1400cs of the same speed. I'm suspecting something as done with the bus speed.
But the 190 is still a great machine no matter what configuration you ended up with.
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My PowerBook 190cs came with a showcase application that described the various features and upgrades for the 190 series. It mentioned the ability to upgrade the LCD to an Active Matrix display. I wonder what the badge would be if such an upgrade was actually offered.
The displays (and much of the other parts) are interchangeable on the 190s and 5300s. I swapped the 5300c display to my 190cs and got 640x400x16-bit colors. The 190cs can even drive the 800x600 ce display at 256 colors.
snake88usa I guess my 190 is the opposite? 5300c top and 190cs bottom
The displays (and much of the other parts) are interchangeable on the 190s and 5300s. I swapped the 5300c display to my 190cs and got 640x400x16-bit colors. The 190cs can even drive the 800x600 ce display at 256 colors.
snake88usa I guess my 190 is the opposite? 5300c top and 190cs bottom
Elfen
Well-known member
A 190cs on a 5300ce screen gives 800X600x16colors? Interesting. I tried that once and it did not work, but that may be because the 190 might be dead to begin with. But I heard that was incompatible, eh, live and learn.
I too have that showcase application and it does say that the LCD can be upgraded to an active display. That has to be the 190C.
The 190 also has a video card add-on upgrade that adds to the VRAM and gives an external monitor port. There is a similar card for the 5300 but it does not fit the 190 and some third party companies add Ethernet to this add-on video VRAM card.
I too have that showcase application and it does say that the LCD can be upgraded to an active display. That has to be the 190C.
The 190 also has a video card add-on upgrade that adds to the VRAM and gives an external monitor port. There is a similar card for the 5300 but it does not fit the 190 and some third party companies add Ethernet to this add-on video VRAM card.
Trash80toHP_Mini
NIGHT STALKER
I'm guessing different memory configurations?
I don't have the original names for the 1400xx, 5300XX or DuoXXXx or 2300c, but here's the title to search for the 190 Devnote:
Apple_Macintosh_PowerBook_190_190cs_Developer_Note
Absolutely, it's also the only MoBo that fits into that particular Case with cubic available underneath that horrid excuse for a pointing device to allow for a Duo Trackball Upgrade. Gotta get around to finishing up the electronics side of that hack sometime!
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You are correct, 800x600x16-bit color did not work for me either on my 190cs. The 512kb video memory of the 190cs isn't enough to drive the display (My 5300c happened to have 1mb of video memory, so it could drive the 800x600 display at Thousands of colors). All I got was a 1-bit gray pattern and regret. The option is present though in the monitors control panel. I think the computer tries to switch to 640x400 resolution to create the display, but doesn't know what to do with the extra pixels.
My 190cs does have the external display card, I am not sure if that has an effect on the internal display. I would have to check the tech note block diagram. I think the 68k PowerBooks and early PPC PowerBooks had separate video ram for the internal and external displays.
Sorry for the confusion!
Trash80toHP_Mini
NIGHT STALKER
The two displays are entirely separate subsystems, each capable of only 16bit Color. There is no 24bit Card available for any of the PBX bridged, NuBus Architecture PPC-PBs. The addressing of the I/O bus is split, 16bits to the PCMCIA Card Cage and 16bits to the Video Card Connector.
I'm going from memory here, check the DevNotes, YMMV.
I'm going from memory here, check the DevNotes, YMMV.
Elfen
Well-known member
A 190/5300 with a trackball? That I would love to see!Absolutely, it's also the only MoBo that fits into that particular Case with cubic available underneath that horrid excuse for a pointing device to allow for a Duo Trackball Upgrade. Gotta get around to finishing up the electronics side of that hack sometime!
Elfen
Well-known member
True, YMMV... But the Farallon (sic?) 5300 external monitor with Ethernet add-on card (according to the box) is 16 or 24Bit color. It wont work with the 190 however, its all over the box "5300 Only!". I believe its ROM is PowerPC only to save space shared with the video card ROM. It's also one hell of a hack as everything is on that tiny card on 3 or so chips! similar cards I've seen are 16bit only and are for both the 190 and 5300.
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Trash80toHP_Mini
NIGHT STALKER
My bad, I meant the Data bus was split. Addressing is a different story.
That's interesting, got pics of the box to share? I snag every eBay pic available, even when the links are disabled I just rip 'em out of the data folders in the saved pages
I've got a relatively hard to find NewerTECH ViewPOWR 1400/16. It's large enough that it blocks one of the Memory Slots (almost certainly the factory slot) reducing maximum RAM config to 48MB. I wasn't very happy when I read the manual. For obvious reasons they omitted mentioning it on the box, so I couldn't determine that in the listing's pics. It will be installed in Beater, my fugly/stuffed to the gills 1400c/G3. Once I have an SSD in there for VM @ Silicon Disk access times, Beater will be stuffed in a bit different config with 16bit up to 16" and 8bit up to TPD resolutions available on the external display.
The noggin hasn't yet developed a memory leak, but access times have been erratic from birth and data integrity is prone to a normal distribution of parity errors. So when I say that I'm going by memory,ISTR, IIRC or YMMV, take the warning seriously. ;D
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back on topic: I hope this 190/5300/1400 expansion tangent is something you and the rest of the gang find useful, snake.
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That's interesting, got pics of the box to share? I snag every eBay pic available, even when the links are disabled I just rip 'em out of the data folders in the saved pages
I've got a relatively hard to find NewerTECH ViewPOWR 1400/16. It's large enough that it blocks one of the Memory Slots (almost certainly the factory slot) reducing maximum RAM config to 48MB. I wasn't very happy when I read the manual. For obvious reasons they omitted mentioning it on the box, so I couldn't determine that in the listing's pics. It will be installed in Beater, my fugly/stuffed to the gills 1400c/G3. Once I have an SSD in there for VM @ Silicon Disk access times, Beater will be stuffed in a bit different config with 16bit up to 16" and 8bit up to TPD resolutions available on the external display.
The noggin hasn't yet developed a memory leak, but access times have been erratic from birth and data integrity is prone to a normal distribution of parity errors. So when I say that I'm going by memory,ISTR, IIRC or YMMV, take the warning seriously. ;D
______________________________________________________________
back on topic: I hope this 190/5300/1400 expansion tangent is something you and the rest of the gang find useful, snake.
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Elfen
Well-known member
I found it on ebay with a couple of differences.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lapis-Color-MV16EN-16-bit-video-ethernet-combo-ugrade-card-Powerbook-5300-Mac-/181449579436?pt=US_Laptop_Port_Expansion_Cards&hash=item2a3f3cdbac
The gold badge does say "for 5300" like mine. And the box says for 190 and/or 5300 like mine. But its missing the side stickers like that gold sticker but smaller that says "For 5300" It is 16bit, my loss.
But I have to ask, why would the box say "for 190 and/or 5300" and then be tagged with stickers saying "for 5300?"
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lapis-Color-MV16EN-16-bit-video-ethernet-combo-ugrade-card-Powerbook-5300-Mac-/181449579436?pt=US_Laptop_Port_Expansion_Cards&hash=item2a3f3cdbac
The gold badge does say "for 5300" like mine. And the box says for 190 and/or 5300 like mine. But its missing the side stickers like that gold sticker but smaller that says "For 5300" It is 16bit, my loss.
But I have to ask, why would the box say "for 190 and/or 5300" and then be tagged with stickers saying "for 5300?"
Trash80toHP_Mini
NIGHT STALKER
HA! I have a very small pile of those boxes.
That's and easy one, they had six products that were shipped in either of two boxes:
These three boxes I have in hand ATM: ***
444-1577 LapisColor MV16EN-5300 **
444-1576 LapisColor MV8EN--5300
444-1580 LapisColor MV16EN--190
444-1579 LapisColor MV8EN---190
444-1575 LapisColor MV16 - 5300 *
444-1578 LapisColor MV16 -- 190
Gold 190 or 5300 sticker to top and sticker with UPC/model number/model name & description in the box under "Box Includes:"
ISTR receiving the MV16 by mistake in the second batch, they were on clearance for a song at the time. Don't remember if the 190 versions were available, but my pair of 5300ce PBs are happy little campers.
I always get a kick out of my Sonnet Crescendo Boxes that say G3 OR G4 for xxxxx! ;D
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That's and easy one, they had six products that were shipped in either of two boxes:
These three boxes I have in hand ATM: ***
444-1577 LapisColor MV16EN-5300 **
444-1576 LapisColor MV8EN--5300
444-1580 LapisColor MV16EN--190
444-1579 LapisColor MV8EN---190
444-1575 LapisColor MV16 - 5300 *
444-1578 LapisColor MV16 -- 190
Gold 190 or 5300 sticker to top and sticker with UPC/model number/model name & description in the box under "Box Includes:"
ISTR receiving the MV16 by mistake in the second batch, they were on clearance for a song at the time. Don't remember if the 190 versions were available, but my pair of 5300ce PBs are happy little campers.
I always get a kick out of my Sonnet Crescendo Boxes that say G3 OR G4 for xxxxx! ;D
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