I‘m unable to open your link.. But these seem to be the ones you want:
We have some of these, they are very recommendable. The Saleae Logic software is also super easy to use
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Micron Xceed SE/306-48 and SE/30 issue
- Thread starter jimbojones
- Start date
We have some of these, they are very recommendable. The Saleae Logic software is also super easy to use
Yes to both. They use Salae logic software, so if you see any mention of Logic anywhere in reviews or the description, you're good.
I can't immediately find the thread where the discussion was ongoing - it was 3 or 4 years ago, I think - but I would say it's due to being essentially an evolutionary dead end. Only worthwhile if you for some reason wanted an exact clone of that particular card. The BOM costs are going to be high for something with limited appeal as it's limited to Mac 640*480 timing. Clones of the Formac design that Bolle's working off or my new 30Video card cost the same or less to produce while being more capable.
Oops, I just fixed the link in my post.I‘m unable to open your link.. But these seem to be the ones you want:
We have some of these, they are very recommendable. The Saleae Logic software is also super easy to use
Thank you for the tips!
Ordered the logic analyzer now, will update once I get it.
The logic analyzer has arrived. Where should I start?
You're going to want to suss out what exactly is happening to the bus as based on what you said so far it seems like when the card is probed, even without a ROM it does something that apparently messes things up so badly the machine can't death chime (correct me if I'm wrong).
Ideally, probably capturing AS, R/W, DSACK0, DSACK1, RESET, STERM, BERR would give you a pretty decent idea of what's happening. Tends to be pretty starkly obvious in the capture when something goes badly awry. You'll want to capture @ atleast 16mhz, 24mhz would be ideal but not all machines can sustain it (DPC latency seems to be a problem).
I had a quick play around with the logic analyzer connected to AS and with the Micron card in, the line is being held low, although not right away.
Edit: actually, that’s not low, is it? Zoomed in, it looks like a repeating square wave pattern. So is the Micron holding up the bus or something?
Edit: actually, that’s not low, is it? Zoomed in, it looks like a repeating square wave pattern. So is the Micron holding up the bus or something?
Not sure how best to share the captured data with you, but try these zoomed out views.
Here are two captures, the first without the Micron card, and the second with. The first bit of activity (which looks like a single thin line) is right at power on time, and the next activity (when the solid block starts) is 1.66 seconds later.
Here are two captures, the first without the Micron card, and the second with. The first bit of activity (which looks like a single thin line) is right at power on time, and the next activity (when the solid block starts) is 1.66 seconds later.
You can attach saved data files from logic, might need to zip them first.
Are you sure you have the order right there? #2 looks like a healthy system (/AS should never stop) where #1 looks wrong.
OK. I am currently hooking up the other lines you suggested and I will share once I have views of both.
Yes, I'm sure. What I am seeing is that /AS shows activity whenever there is movement on the built in display. Edit: I have it hooked up to /Nubus on a PAL chip so that may be why, I forgot that this board doesn't have the bodge fix.
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Something is not right. During boot AS should be a hotbed of activity. I wouldn't expect it to stop toggling unless the CPU is fully stopped or stuck in a loop that fits in cache. But if you were actually capturing /NUBUS that'd be why, since that'd only hit on accesses to card space.
Here's an example of part of the boot process.
Attachments
I've spent some time doing this properly and have been seeing results like your screenshots above.
I've attached my Logic saves. There are now two types of failure mode, 1/ sometimes the SE/30 doesn't chime at all (reset held low). 2/ Other times it chimes then goes to a frozen grey screen. I've attached an example of both.
I've attached my Logic saves. There are now two types of failure mode, 1/ sometimes the SE/30 doesn't chime at all (reset held low). 2/ Other times it chimes then goes to a frozen grey screen. I've attached an example of both.
Something is happening just before the 2 second mark. DSACK and R/W activity ceases and then STERM and BERR see lots of activity. I don't know what this means though.
Here's a zoomed in view of this point in time:
And the same point in time without the Micron card.
All of this is in the attached Logic saves.
Here's a zoomed in view of this point in time:
And the same point in time without the Micron card.
All of this is in the attached Logic saves.
Now that looks like good data. The BERR activity I believe is normal - scanning ranges to find card ROMs.
The /STERM stuff should definitely be activity from the XCEED. I'm not immediately sure why /STERM would be asserted at the same time as /BERR, i'd expect /BERR+/HALT to indicate to the 68030 to retry the bus cycle.... definitely suspect. Can you capture /HALT also?
The /STERM stuff should definitely be activity from the XCEED. I'm not immediately sure why /STERM would be asserted at the same time as /BERR, i'd expect /BERR+/HALT to indicate to the 68030 to retry the bus cycle.... definitely suspect. Can you capture /HALT also?
Well, I hooked up /HALT…
Today, I’m getting different results. Not sure if yesterday’s capture was a fluke.
Reset goes high, the Mac chimes, then reset gets pulled low again about 920 ms later but the exact point at which this happens varies at each attempt to power on. Whatever is on-screen at that point stays frozen on screen: sometimes jailbars, sometimes grey screen with cursor and floppy disk with ‘?’.
Today, I’m getting different results. Not sure if yesterday’s capture was a fluke.
Reset goes high, the Mac chimes, then reset gets pulled low again about 920 ms later but the exact point at which this happens varies at each attempt to power on. Whatever is on-screen at that point stays frozen on screen: sometimes jailbars, sometimes grey screen with cursor and floppy disk with ‘?’.
Ah, there we go. I got it to replicate yesterday's behaviour.
It seems like there are three different scenarios, that occur at random:
1/ The machine never comes out of reset, there is no chime and no bus activity
2/ The machine comes out of reset, then chimes, but shortly after we see bus activity on /STERM, /BERR and /HALT, and the machine freezes
3/ The machine comes out of reset, then chimes, but shortly after /RESET goes low and all bus activity ceases.
It seems like there are three different scenarios, that occur at random:
1/ The machine never comes out of reset, there is no chime and no bus activity
2/ The machine comes out of reset, then chimes, but shortly after we see bus activity on /STERM, /BERR and /HALT, and the machine freezes
3/ The machine comes out of reset, then chimes, but shortly after /RESET goes low and all bus activity ceases.
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I was reading that the Sony chip brings the SE/30 out of reset once the voltage has settled. I just checked my +5V rail. It's 4.53V with the card inserted; 4.84V removed.
Obviously 4.53V is too low to operate the computer, so I need to adjust the pot in my PSU (it is recapped). While I'm at it, I'll swap out the +5V cables on the stock harness with nice thick 16AWG ones which have arrived from Mouser.
When I am happy that the PSU is running normally, I'll come back to troubleshooting the Micron card.
Obviously 4.53V is too low to operate the computer, so I need to adjust the pot in my PSU (it is recapped). While I'm at it, I'll swap out the +5V cables on the stock harness with nice thick 16AWG ones which have arrived from Mouser.
When I am happy that the PSU is running normally, I'll come back to troubleshooting the Micron card.
Here's the latest capture, with the upgraded harness there are no more issues with /RESET to confuse the issue.
Salae capture attached.
Salae capture attached.
