I managed to scrounge up a PDS ethernet card, so now I'll be able to check the fit of logic board + PDS card + SCSI2SD in the acrylic case. I also received a notice that the laser cutting is in progress, so hopefully I'll have the parts on Thursday.
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Homemade Mini Case for LC, P475, Q605
- Thread starter bigmessowires
- Start date
Excellent, can't wait to see it in its Nuclear Orange glory!
Without a fan, if there's any overclocking going on, an '040 is quickly going to become the biggest or the next biggest cooling need.
Another suggestion that was made in this very thread was using a modern power supply, and given that even a 605's power supply is pushing 25 years old now, it may not be a bad idea, really. In general, my experience has been that power supplies (modern and old) themselves don't get particularly hot. The IIgs for example, had a power supply that could push ~40w (lower than some macs, but) and wasn't actively cooled. (You could do it, but you only really needed to if you filled like every expansion slot in the system.)
If the PSU is the component in a stock LC series system with the most critical cooling needs, my recommendation is definitely to flip everything and put it on top. At stock speeds, I don't think even an 040 is going to put off enough heat, and the scsi2sd and ethernet cards in this design might block airflow from the PSU enough (unless the case is much taller than those two things) that not enough air will be able to flow.
Of course, some kind of fan will do the trick -- and it really shouldn't matter whether you're pushing cool air into the system or pulling hot air out (presumably through the PSU, either way.) Especially with modern fans that can quietly move a lot of air.
And: perhaps this just happened to work because it was an open air environment (in the Arizona summer, but whatever) -- but like I said, I pulled my 475 out of its case, didn't install the fan anywhere, and put the PSU on its own on a table outside the new case and ran the whole thing for probably a few weeks with no trouble whatsoever.
I don't think the power supply will cause near the trouble you think it will, and for as insufficient as a 475 might be to cool an overclocked 40 -> 46MHz '040, or a 10k-rpm SCSI disk, it was probably wildly over-specced for cooling its own power supply.
Adequate airflow, but generally not great. (EDIT: But: it didn't have to be.)
Another suggestion that was made in this very thread was using a modern power supply, and given that even a 605's power supply is pushing 25 years old now, it may not be a bad idea, really. In general, my experience has been that power supplies (modern and old) themselves don't get particularly hot. The IIgs for example, had a power supply that could push ~40w (lower than some macs, but) and wasn't actively cooled. (You could do it, but you only really needed to if you filled like every expansion slot in the system.)
If the PSU is the component in a stock LC series system with the most critical cooling needs, my recommendation is definitely to flip everything and put it on top. At stock speeds, I don't think even an 040 is going to put off enough heat, and the scsi2sd and ethernet cards in this design might block airflow from the PSU enough (unless the case is much taller than those two things) that not enough air will be able to flow.
Of course, some kind of fan will do the trick -- and it really shouldn't matter whether you're pushing cool air into the system or pulling hot air out (presumably through the PSU, either way.) Especially with modern fans that can quietly move a lot of air.
And: perhaps this just happened to work because it was an open air environment (in the Arizona summer, but whatever) -- but like I said, I pulled my 475 out of its case, didn't install the fan anywhere, and put the PSU on its own on a table outside the new case and ran the whole thing for probably a few weeks with no trouble whatsoever.
I don't think the power supply will cause near the trouble you think it will, and for as insufficient as a 475 might be to cool an overclocked 40 -> 46MHz '040, or a 10k-rpm SCSI disk, it was probably wildly over-specced for cooling its own power supply.
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Yup, this has been my experience too, and is why I wasn't very concerned with cooling when I designed this Mini LC case. I'm not planning any overclocking. Maybe I'm completely wrong, but we'll find out soon because the laser-cut acrylic parts are arriving today! I put a few strategically-placed holes in the top lid, so I can take temperature measurements of a few different spots inside the case, and see how hot it gets.
I'm feeling unreasonably excited about the delivery of a few pieces of orange plastic.
Nothing unreasonable at all, attempted correlation of delight and rational thought seems like the spec for a random irrational number generation algorithm.
Your level of excitement is definitely bi-coastal, intercontinental at the very least and likely worldwide given samuari-j's interest in your project. Oz represent? Too bad we don't have a member stationed in Antarctica. Any other intercontinental lurkers out there?
MQMTfx™ – AKA - MicroQuadraMiniTower©
My project won't be getting its own thread in hacks here, you've pretty much completed that one for me already! We've had a delightful multi-threaded case design jam session going here, a tangential detour to ThinkClassic's hacks forum and is now on final approach to a landing on my AppleDesigned display shelves in cardboard and acrylic.
Only bolting the rainbow hued 120mm disk access indicator to a clear plexi lid will remain to be done after its arrival from China. [
)] ]'>
Collaboration on this kinda crap is the Bombe!
mj's photographic input a Lego Bricked Missile Command front bezel prototype remains to be printed in color, spraymented to posterboard and then glued onto the corrugated side panel. [)] ]'>
Can't wait to see your upcoming photo spread Big Guy!
Your level of excitement is definitely bi-coastal, intercontinental at the very least and likely worldwide given samuari-j's interest in your project. Oz represent? Too bad we don't have a member stationed in Antarctica. Any other intercontinental lurkers out there?
MQMTfx™ – AKA - MicroQuadraMiniTower©
My project won't be getting its own thread in hacks here, you've pretty much completed that one for me already! We've had a delightful multi-threaded case design jam session going here, a tangential detour to ThinkClassic's hacks forum and is now on final approach to a landing on my AppleDesigned display shelves in cardboard and acrylic.
Only bolting the rainbow hued 120mm disk access indicator to a clear plexi lid will remain to be done after its arrival from China. [
)] ]'>
Collaboration on this kinda crap is the Bombe!
mj's photographic input a Lego Bricked Missile Command front bezel prototype remains to be printed in color, spraymented to posterboard and then glued onto the corrugated side panel. [
)] ]'>Can't wait to see your upcoming photo spread Big Guy!
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Flipping the fan over to push air into the top of the case and directly onto the CPU is likely the best possible solution (egregious exaggeration of concept outlined above) outside of resorting to the use of a tiny, conventional PSU integrating solutions to Power/Cooling Budget requirements in a single component. Apple's bottom up/next to CPU implementation neatly baffled sound output from the tiny fan.
We've gotta remember that everything about this mulithreaded, multiple form factor design exercise stemmed from***** Big's rant about the size and dB level output of the RoadapplePPC enclosure for his 40MHz Q630 build. The blame for none of this falls upon me! [
)] ]'>Have the parts arrived yet?
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Aforementioned rant: Performa 6205 - YUCK!
***** That was probably the mother of all edit boo boos in the long and sordid history of my post editing for typo/grammar correction. Let's blame it on the quirks of learning to use the new split keyboard?
< summation of lost text >
Convection cooling of (mostly) cellulose kindling based case construction materials already out the window.
I can't justify buying a SCSI2SD for the <mjMCMQMT< build, rooting through the parts bins for zero cost solutions is the plan.
10,000 RPM of 73.4GB worth of spinning rust will provide a considerable amount of much more appropriate gyroscopic stability.
2.5" IBM Savvio SCA server drive controller's component side should be more visually appealing.
Aux PSU: check: nekkidized lump-onna-rope from laptop IDE/SATA->Desktop IDE adapter kit
Spare Ultra SCSI3 SCA -> 50Pin, ultra slow Q605 SCSI adapter: check
Big@$$ fan takes care of cooling both radiant heat producers
/summation of lost text>
Unfortunately, disk access indication isn't in the SCA connector spec so I'm hoping it's on one of the front mounted edge connector contacts and has the juice to drive multiple LEDs.
The slow boat approach of the dual-purpose LED/Fan that's my only planned monetary expenditure affords me the opportunity for plenty of Illustrator time in working out fitment issues and sheet metal tool playtime with the leftover aluminum roofing flashing from the TwiggyGambit project.
Have the parts arrived yet?
< /are we there yet? [)] ]'> >
***** That was probably the mother of all edit boo boos in the long and sordid history of my post editing for typo/grammar correction. Let's blame it on the quirks of learning to use the new split keyboard?
< summation of lost text >
Convection cooling of (mostly) cellulose kindling based case construction materials already out the window.
I can't justify buying a SCSI2SD for the <mjMCMQMT< build, rooting through the parts bins for zero cost solutions is the plan.
10,000 RPM of 73.4GB worth of spinning rust will provide a considerable amount of much more appropriate gyroscopic stability.
2.5" IBM Savvio SCA server drive controller's component side should be more visually appealing.
Aux PSU: check: nekkidized lump-onna-rope from laptop IDE/SATA->Desktop IDE adapter kit
Spare Ultra SCSI3 SCA -> 50Pin, ultra slow Q605 SCSI adapter: check
Big@$$ fan takes care of cooling both radiant heat producers
/summation of lost text>
Unfortunately, disk access indication isn't in the SCA connector spec so I'm hoping it's on one of the front mounted edge connector contacts and has the juice to drive multiple LEDs.
The slow boat approach of the dual-purpose LED/Fan that's my only planned monetary expenditure affords me the opportunity for plenty of Illustrator time in working out fitment issues and sheet metal tool playtime with the leftover aluminum roofing flashing from the TwiggyGambit project.
Have the parts arrived yet?
< /are we there yet? [
)] ]'> >
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Orange plastic parts have been delayed until tomorrow.
Does that mean the clear lid arrived? [)] ]'> Sorry, man, I share your disappointment.
)] ]'> Sorry, man, I share your disappointment.
Are we there yet? [)] ]'>
)] ]'>
I fear it's lost in some UPS black hole, because it's just been bumping around within a few miles of here for two days. Tracking still says it will be delivered today, but as it's already past 6 pm, I'm not too optimistic.
Package delivered at 6:41 pm. Behold the nuclear orange glory! Parts before assembly:
and the final product:
My white balance may be a little off, but it's a stupidly bright shade of orange with a clear top. Shown sitting on an LC 475 for size reference. It's almost exactly the same height, and a slight bit narrower, and only half as long as the LC 475 case. Mini LC is so cute!
I'm a little surprised everything fit together successfully. My measurements weren't super accurate, and acrylic isn't forgiving when pieces don't line up properly. It's very stiff. Some of the pieces do look slightly warped when it's all assembled, so I'll need to look further to see what's causing that.
Assembly was comically difficult! There are only six pieces, or seven if you count the shelf, but every time I got past three pieces I couldn't manage to add a new piece without having an old one fall off. After a lot failed attempts, I resorted to taping the whole thing together incrementally until it was complete, and I could add the T-slot screws. With the screws in place, it was nice and solid, so I was able to remove the tape. Here's a close-up of one of the T-slot screws:
With a PDS ethernet card installed, the space below the shelf was just barely too short, making it impossible to install the shelf and the ethernet at the same time. I didn't account for the metal shield on the ethernet card, which adds a couple of millimeters of thickness. For now I'm running without the ethernet card, so there's nothing under the shelf but the logic board. But I discovered that the metal shield can be easily removed from the ethernet card, so I'll try that tomorrow. I think it will fit. Meanwhile, the height above the shelf is probably more generous than necessary, and could be reduced.
I have the case stuffed with an LC III board right now, and it's working fine. With no speaker, no fan, no spinning hard drive, and no LEDs, it's impossible to tell that it's on except by looking at the video display on the monitor. It's kind of weird. Even a Mac Plus isn't this silent. Having no speaker is unfortunate. Yes I could use headphones or an external speaker, but it's not the same. I'll look for a tiny speaker I can shove somewhere into the unused cubic centimeters.
Tomorrow I'll try restuffing the case with the guts of the LC 475. The 475's power supply has a screw on the end that's in a different location from the power supply I used as my reference, so that may be a problem. I probably shouldn't have tried to box the PSU so tightly.
Cooling doesn't look like a problem so far. With the case top in place and with no fan, after 30 minutes of run time SCSI2SD is 83 F, the power supply is 90 F, logic board chips are 94 F, and the hottest area near the CPU is 115 F (46 C). I can already see that the locations I chose for the passive cooling vents were stupid, though. Maybe the LC 475 with PDS ethernet card will show a more interesting thermal profile than the LC III.
Now back to playing with my little orange monster...
and the final product:
My white balance may be a little off, but it's a stupidly bright shade of orange with a clear top. Shown sitting on an LC 475 for size reference. It's almost exactly the same height, and a slight bit narrower, and only half as long as the LC 475 case. Mini LC is so cute!
I'm a little surprised everything fit together successfully. My measurements weren't super accurate, and acrylic isn't forgiving when pieces don't line up properly. It's very stiff. Some of the pieces do look slightly warped when it's all assembled, so I'll need to look further to see what's causing that.
Assembly was comically difficult! There are only six pieces, or seven if you count the shelf, but every time I got past three pieces I couldn't manage to add a new piece without having an old one fall off. After a lot failed attempts, I resorted to taping the whole thing together incrementally until it was complete, and I could add the T-slot screws. With the screws in place, it was nice and solid, so I was able to remove the tape. Here's a close-up of one of the T-slot screws:
With a PDS ethernet card installed, the space below the shelf was just barely too short, making it impossible to install the shelf and the ethernet at the same time. I didn't account for the metal shield on the ethernet card, which adds a couple of millimeters of thickness. For now I'm running without the ethernet card, so there's nothing under the shelf but the logic board. But I discovered that the metal shield can be easily removed from the ethernet card, so I'll try that tomorrow. I think it will fit. Meanwhile, the height above the shelf is probably more generous than necessary, and could be reduced.
I have the case stuffed with an LC III board right now, and it's working fine. With no speaker, no fan, no spinning hard drive, and no LEDs, it's impossible to tell that it's on except by looking at the video display on the monitor. It's kind of weird. Even a Mac Plus isn't this silent. Having no speaker is unfortunate. Yes I could use headphones or an external speaker, but it's not the same. I'll look for a tiny speaker I can shove somewhere into the unused cubic centimeters.
Tomorrow I'll try restuffing the case with the guts of the LC 475. The 475's power supply has a screw on the end that's in a different location from the power supply I used as my reference, so that may be a problem. I probably shouldn't have tried to box the PSU so tightly.
Cooling doesn't look like a problem so far. With the case top in place and with no fan, after 30 minutes of run time SCSI2SD is 83 F, the power supply is 90 F, logic board chips are 94 F, and the hottest area near the CPU is 115 F (46 C). I can already see that the locations I chose for the passive cooling vents were stupid, though. Maybe the LC 475 with PDS ethernet card will show a more interesting thermal profile than the LC III.
Now back to playing with my little orange monster...
Snazzy. It's vaguely reminiscent of the tangerine iMac color (at least as far as I can see from the internet). It'd probably block the airflow, but visually it looks like there might be space for the floppy and a fan? in the center middle if the design had some additional support rails/platform inside. Seeing the circuit board is neat but it seems sad without anything on the front.
It's gorgeous. [8D]
The only tweak for it I can think of offhand would be to make up a little bit longer SCSI cable. Slit it like a madman so you can rotate the SCSI2SD through 180 degrees and showcase its good side. You might consider sourcing a Sun cable made up of multi-hued individual wires to shorten up. Your design needs a bit more color. [
] ]'>
You've got the PersonalPizzaBox design nailed down, so there's no point in me playing with it more. However, you've inspired me to take a whack at the Q700 MiniTower form factor.
The only tweak for it I can think of offhand would be to make up a little bit longer SCSI cable. Slit it like a madman so you can rotate the SCSI2SD through 180 degrees and showcase its good side. You might consider sourcing a Sun cable made up of multi-hued individual wires to shorten up. Your design needs a bit more color. [
] ]'>You've got the PersonalPizzaBox design nailed down, so there's no point in me playing with it more. However, you've inspired me to take a whack at the Q700 MiniTower form factor.
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Thanks. The small empty space towards the front of the case is only about 2 inches square, so it could fit a small fan but definitely not a floppy drive. If a floppy is needed, the plan was to snake a cable outside the case, but I haven't tried that yet.
I really want to get a speaker in there somehow.
The SCSI cable is slit into six pieces, so maybe it could rotate 180 degrees. I didn't even think to try that! I suspect the molex power connector will be too short, but it's worth an attempt.
JT, I also tried it oriented as a tower, with the PSU on the bottom. It works, and it won't topple over in a breeze, but if you give it a good bump it'll fall over. If you want a tower config, you would definitely need a wider (taller) case, or outrigger feet.
I placed several vents in the bottom of the case, as you can see in the first photo. But when it's assembled the case sits flat on the desk and those vents are completely blocked. :scrambled: What was I thinking? I guess some feet would be useful after all.
I really want to get a speaker in there somehow.
The SCSI cable is slit into six pieces, so maybe it could rotate 180 degrees. I didn't even think to try that! I suspect the molex power connector will be too short, but it's worth an attempt.
JT, I also tried it oriented as a tower, with the PSU on the bottom. It works, and it won't topple over in a breeze, but if you give it a good bump it'll fall over. If you want a tower config, you would definitely need a wider (taller) case, or outrigger feet.
I placed several vents in the bottom of the case, as you can see in the first photo. But when it's assembled the case sits flat on the desk and those vents are completely blocked. :scrambled: What was I thinking? I guess some feet would be useful after all.
[] ]'> Feets™are invariably useful, I wish I had a set of round ones with the Apple logo imprint. They started out styling, got toned down until the IIcx and wound up a major fashion statement in the Q605.
. . . collaboration is the bombe!
] ]'>
You've got the 605 project well under control and I've toppled it up and over the top with mj's input. Floofies has the Quadra 630 covered, so developing a Saturn_V scale SAM from that platform is kinda silly . . . even for me.
So I'm hot on the trail of the mother lode of IIsi parts tucked away somewhe . . . :
] ]'> Feets™are invariably useful, I wish I had a set of round ones with the Apple logo imprint. They started out styling, got toned down until the IIcx and wound up a major fashion statement in the Q605.Don't have one handy, but it looks to me to be a bit short to make it around the bend and up the hill to the SCSI2SD connector. Your brain does electronics development, mine's just topsy turvy . . .
. . . collaboration is the bombe!
Looked it over earlier and it's got some real potential. I'd already pulled the Missile Command Module off the display shelves and it'll be heading to NASA's Body & Fender Shop to emerge flight ready. Gotta get one of my printers running to do that Missile Command graphic up in color for the poster board front panel overlay. Chintz cuts both ways in terminology. [
] ]'>You've got the 605 project well under control and I've toppled it up and over the top with mj's input. Floofies has the Quadra 630 covered, so developing a Saturn_V scale SAM from that platform is kinda silly . . . even for me.
So I'm hot on the trail of the mother lode of IIsi parts tucked away somewhe . . . :
This is way cooler than I imagined when you first started the thread. Now you have me thinking of what other mini-Macs might be fun to make.
Well, the IIsi itch has been well and truly scratched. Fits on letter size paper, so the area of that one side's 1.375 sq.in. less than the CorrugatedQuadra's, but cubic is waaaay over the top . . .
. . . imagine that. [] ]'>
Film at 11.
. . . imagine that. [
] ]'>Film at 11.
Little orange monster version 1.1, now with LC 475 guts, a PDS ethernet card, and a speaker. Here it is outfit with a Floppy Emu and ADB-USB Wombat:
I realized I mounted one of the side pieces upside down yesterday, which explains why things seemed a little warped. It's better now.
After removing the metal shield from the ethernet card, there's just barely enough interior height to fit the card, the shelf, and the SCSI2SD above it. Using a SCSI cable with integrated strain relief, it wouldn't fit, and I had to substitute a different SCSI cable that's a couple of mm thinner. Rotating SCSI2SD 180 degrees with the component side up was impossible.
The case opening for the PDS card is fine, but without the metal shield, there's a gap around the ethernet jack. Bonus ventilation! Here's a photo of that, along with the right side vents:
The speaker is taped to the inside of the case to prevent it from moving around, which is ugly. There's not enough space for it to lie flat, so it's propped up at a strange angle. I'll hunt around for a smaller 16 ohm speaker to use in its place.
There's a slot in the front where I've run a floppy ribbon cable, so I can hook up a Floppy Emu when needed.
The LC 475 version runs cooler than the LC III did (which was already fairly cool). I'll find some proper feet later, but for now I've propped up the case to provide some passive airflow to the underside vents. Even with no fan, I couldn't find anything inside warmer than 88 F / 31 C. I was prepared to mount a tiny fan inside, but that doesn't look necessary now since the passive cooling is more than adequate.
So I think this little guy is pretty much done, aside from feet and maybe a new speaker! It's barely any bigger than my keyboard, which is neat.
If anybody wants to build their own, or use this as a starting point for further experiments, take the files I posted here: https://68kmla.org/forums/index.php?/topic/30772-homemade-mini-case-for-lc-p475-q605/?p=334916. There are two files: one for the bottom and sides, and one for the top and shelf, so you can have the two different sheets made in different colors. Upload the files to ponoko.com, and have each one cut on a P2 sized 3mm thick acrylic of your color choice. You can also use 3mm MDF wood if you want a different look. Along with the case pieces, you'll need 11 M3x10mm screws with matching nuts. #4-40 size screws probably fit too, but I haven't tried it. You'll also want some plastic zip ties to strap down the power supply.
A few things I'd do differently, if I were going to do this again:
- Add about 3mm to the height under the shelf, to fit thicker PDS cards
- Add about 3mm to the height above the shelf, to fit thicker SCSI cables
- Integrate small feet into the side pieces, to elevate the case for better underside airflow
- Have fewer vents around the PSU, and more vents around the CPU and PDS card
- Cut the vent slots into the shape of an Apple logo
- Reposition the floppy cable slot, so it's better aligned with the logic board's floppy connector
- Add an opening for a power LED so I can tell when it's on
I realized I mounted one of the side pieces upside down yesterday, which explains why things seemed a little warped. It's better now.
After removing the metal shield from the ethernet card, there's just barely enough interior height to fit the card, the shelf, and the SCSI2SD above it. Using a SCSI cable with integrated strain relief, it wouldn't fit, and I had to substitute a different SCSI cable that's a couple of mm thinner. Rotating SCSI2SD 180 degrees with the component side up was impossible.
The case opening for the PDS card is fine, but without the metal shield, there's a gap around the ethernet jack. Bonus ventilation! Here's a photo of that, along with the right side vents:
The speaker is taped to the inside of the case to prevent it from moving around, which is ugly. There's not enough space for it to lie flat, so it's propped up at a strange angle. I'll hunt around for a smaller 16 ohm speaker to use in its place.
There's a slot in the front where I've run a floppy ribbon cable, so I can hook up a Floppy Emu when needed.
The LC 475 version runs cooler than the LC III did (which was already fairly cool). I'll find some proper feet later, but for now I've propped up the case to provide some passive airflow to the underside vents. Even with no fan, I couldn't find anything inside warmer than 88 F / 31 C. I was prepared to mount a tiny fan inside, but that doesn't look necessary now since the passive cooling is more than adequate.
So I think this little guy is pretty much done, aside from feet and maybe a new speaker! It's barely any bigger than my keyboard, which is neat.
If anybody wants to build their own, or use this as a starting point for further experiments, take the files I posted here: https://68kmla.org/forums/index.php?/topic/30772-homemade-mini-case-for-lc-p475-q605/?p=334916. There are two files: one for the bottom and sides, and one for the top and shelf, so you can have the two different sheets made in different colors. Upload the files to ponoko.com, and have each one cut on a P2 sized 3mm thick acrylic of your color choice. You can also use 3mm MDF wood if you want a different look. Along with the case pieces, you'll need 11 M3x10mm screws with matching nuts. #4-40 size screws probably fit too, but I haven't tried it. You'll also want some plastic zip ties to strap down the power supply.
A few things I'd do differently, if I were going to do this again:
- Add about 3mm to the height under the shelf, to fit thicker PDS cards
- Add about 3mm to the height above the shelf, to fit thicker SCSI cables
- Integrate small feet into the side pieces, to elevate the case for better underside airflow
- Have fewer vents around the PSU, and more vents around the CPU and PDS card
- Cut the vent slots into the shape of an Apple logo
- Reposition the floppy cable slot, so it's better aligned with the logic board's floppy connector
- Add an opening for a power LED so I can tell when it's on
