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Updated 2023-07-12: Hello, Guest! Welcome back, and be sure to check out this follow-up post about our outage a week or so ago.
Wife twisted my arm into buying an SE/30
- Thread starter carguyty
- Start date
carguyty
Well-known member
I need floppies with the installer. At this time, I've got a PowerBook G4 and a MacBook Air. Networking those two together is no big deal but trying to get the SE/30 online to work with images is beyond me. I do have the .img files on my server, but I thought I needed some sort of special floppy drive to make bootable floppies. Would I be able to use any old USB connected drive to make the disks or do I need to use a service or another bridge Mac to write the disks?
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just.in.time
Well-known member
No need for a special floppy drive since the SE/30 can use 1.4mb disks. With a USB floppy drive you should be able to use the PowerBook G4 to make the disks from the .img files. What OS is the PoweBook running?
just.in.time
Well-known member
Oh perfect! From either the disk utility in Classic (not OS X), or the iBook running OS 9, with the USB floppy drive you should be able to restore the images directly to disk.
Honestly I'd try from the iBook first if it actually boots directly to OS 9. Classic should work as well, but one less variable to deal with is always nice.
If on the off chance disk utility throws complaints about working with a USB floppy drive, then mount the floppy disks to the desktop, format them to Mac, then mount the .img files. Drag and drop contents to freshly formatted disk and change the disk name to match that of the disk that the .img file mounted (may or may not be the same name as the actual .img file). That should work in a pinch.
Honestly I'd try from the iBook first if it actually boots directly to OS 9. Classic should work as well, but one less variable to deal with is always nice.
If on the off chance disk utility throws complaints about working with a USB floppy drive, then mount the floppy disks to the desktop, format them to Mac, then mount the .img files. Drag and drop contents to freshly formatted disk and change the disk name to match that of the disk that the .img file mounted (may or may not be the same name as the actual .img file). That should work in a pinch.
rsolberg
Well-known member
If you're comfortable using Terminal, dd can be used to write .img floppy images on OS X right up to the latest El Capitan. http://lowendmac.com/2008/creating-classic-mac-boot-floppies-in-os-x/
Also, as just.in.time has suggested, OS 9 or Classic will work. You'll need Disk Copy (which isn't necessarily installed with the OS) to write the images directly to floppy.
If you want to try the drag and drop method as just.in.time describes, you'll need to be booted into OS 9, not just running the Classic environment. You should initialise/format the floppy as Mac OS Standard (HFS) as disks formatted Mac OS Extended (HFS+) will not be bootable on a 68k Mac. If you write the images directly to disk such as with dd or Disk Copy, you don't have to specify the format - an exact copy of the image including formatting is written.
Also, as just.in.time has suggested, OS 9 or Classic will work. You'll need Disk Copy (which isn't necessarily installed with the OS) to write the images directly to floppy.
If you want to try the drag and drop method as just.in.time describes, you'll need to be booted into OS 9, not just running the Classic environment. You should initialise/format the floppy as Mac OS Standard (HFS) as disks formatted Mac OS Extended (HFS+) will not be bootable on a 68k Mac. If you write the images directly to disk such as with dd or Disk Copy, you don't have to specify the format - an exact copy of the image including formatting is written.
techknight
Well-known member
Word to the wise for those: Using a heatgun on low to preheat the board, will overcome the thermal masses of the internal layers to allow you to unsolder and clean those holes using desoldering braid much much easier than without the heat!
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carguyty
Well-known member
Let's see here...according to my naval aviation mantenance micro miniature manual, target topside temperature should fall between 95 and 105 degrees Celsius. I think it's tough to say when that is without experience or an infrared thermometer.
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techfury90
Well-known member
Hell, might as well buy an IR thermometer, they're cheap these days.
tjjq44
Well-known member
When I replace through-hole capacitors, I use an unusual but efficient method... I cut the capacitor in halves, and remove everything but the legs and then solder the new one directly on the remaining legs ,-) For Axials, it's even easier, no need to cut the capacitor itself!
carguyty
Well-known member
Do you do anything to reflow the joint to the board? I would be a little concerned about an unseen cold joint or potential stress from board flex. I think it's a great idea to use the existing legs compared to chasing out the old solder. The idea of buying a desoldering gun just for the occasional via slurping isn't too appealing. Hell, I don't even have a good temperature controlled iron because the pen torch based ones I have still manage. Still cause me to bring out my sailor-mouth every time I use them, so there's that too... 
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Bunsen
Admin-Witchfinder-General
carguyty
Well-known member
Floppy drive is on order. Sunday afternoon me and the iBook will be sitting down and compiling a set of install disks to figure out if the original hard disk has any sort of life left in it. Thanks for the dd reminder rsolberg! I'm glad there's a solid plan B, just in case.
carguyty
Well-known member
Update on the disk copy:
dd is a better friend than trying to use Disk Copy in OS 9 on an iBook. I suppose there is a way to spoof the USB floppy drive location to look as if it is installed, but I didn't find the patience or the software to get the "Make Floppies" command to un-dim. Once I figured out the 1-2 step of unmounting the floppy disk and then going to terminal to execute the dd function, it was a breeze!
Right up till 7.5.3. The poor Mac (Lenny as my wife calls him. I suppose I'll be on the look out for a full page monitor to be Squiggy) only has a 40 Mb HDD. The 19 part image for the update CD is over 20 Mb and the existing 7.0.1 system is equally as bloated. Is an OS that can fit entirely in RAM really "bloated".
At any rate, I noticed some issues early on with the HDD not being read. I found out that the bump stops in the original drives have a very soft rubber that will degrade and turn to black soup. After I took apart the drive and replaced the bump stops with a bit of aquarium air line, the boot process was fantastic! I even have some homebrew porn stories from "Master Duncan" if anybody is interested. xx(
So when I was in the eternal update process from 7 to 7.0.1, the Superdrive decided to throw a gear. Time to get out the iFixit kit again! The little eject gear was loosing teeth and needed to get replaced. I found out this as I was pouring all 19 parts of the update and I decided to turn to the forums for a more workable solution. I didn't feel like it was a good service to Lenny to keep looking for more parts if I couldn't get something better, so a used Superdrive and a NOS SCSI drive were out.
Fortunately some people in our forum have pointed out replacement gears (even one full set of 4 for the complete drive train, not just the little high-failure-rate one) being sold through Shapeways. Somebody even designed a clever little universal mount for the venerable SCSI2SD. I ordered both of those items to go with a SCSI2SD v5 (v6 is not yet available in US through official channels) and an 8 Gb SD card. Looks like I'll be able to have a full 2 Gb Mac OS partition and a 2 Gb A/UX partition! :approve:
If anybody is looking for a single CD repository for their bridge Mac, I can not recommend enough to hunt down (or send me a PM for a treasure map) the official Apple Legacy Software Recovery disc. It holds everything official for 68k macs, and some PPC software also. I have downloaded this and made a hard copy to go with my museum
So here I sit in front of a blank desktop, playing Dark Castle and Prince of Persia while I wait for the new hard disk. Time to go seeking more productive programs to get some life out of this awesome machine.
dd is a better friend than trying to use Disk Copy in OS 9 on an iBook. I suppose there is a way to spoof the USB floppy drive location to look as if it is installed, but I didn't find the patience or the software to get the "Make Floppies" command to un-dim. Once I figured out the 1-2 step of unmounting the floppy disk and then going to terminal to execute the dd function, it was a breeze!
Right up till 7.5.3. The poor Mac (Lenny as my wife calls him. I suppose I'll be on the look out for a full page monitor to be Squiggy) only has a 40 Mb HDD. The 19 part image for the update CD is over 20 Mb and the existing 7.0.1 system is equally as bloated. Is an OS that can fit entirely in RAM really "bloated".
At any rate, I noticed some issues early on with the HDD not being read. I found out that the bump stops in the original drives have a very soft rubber that will degrade and turn to black soup. After I took apart the drive and replaced the bump stops with a bit of aquarium air line, the boot process was fantastic! I even have some homebrew porn stories from "Master Duncan" if anybody is interested. xx(
So when I was in the eternal update process from 7 to 7.0.1, the Superdrive decided to throw a gear. Time to get out the iFixit kit again! The little eject gear was loosing teeth and needed to get replaced. I found out this as I was pouring all 19 parts of the update and I decided to turn to the forums for a more workable solution. I didn't feel like it was a good service to Lenny to keep looking for more parts if I couldn't get something better, so a used Superdrive and a NOS SCSI drive were out.
Fortunately some people in our forum have pointed out replacement gears (even one full set of 4 for the complete drive train, not just the little high-failure-rate one) being sold through Shapeways. Somebody even designed a clever little universal mount for the venerable SCSI2SD. I ordered both of those items to go with a SCSI2SD v5 (v6 is not yet available in US through official channels) and an 8 Gb SD card. Looks like I'll be able to have a full 2 Gb Mac OS partition and a 2 Gb A/UX partition! :approve:
If anybody is looking for a single CD repository for their bridge Mac, I can not recommend enough to hunt down (or send me a PM for a treasure map) the official Apple Legacy Software Recovery disc. It holds everything official for 68k macs, and some PPC software also. I have downloaded this and made a hard copy to go with my museum
So here I sit in front of a blank desktop, playing Dark Castle and Prince of Persia while I wait for the new hard disk. Time to go seeking more productive programs to get some life out of this awesome machine.
CompuNurd
Well-known member
Just about to recap a new purchase here in the UK and have read this thread with interest. I have an SE/30 (recapped when I bought it) and all working fine so I don't want to fiddle with it just now but I am about to 'cut my teeth' and recap a Classic II that is currently working but on its way out. I am a 'recap virgin' and I read that tantalum capacitors were used as the replacements on the SE/30 here. I have seen MLCC's used too and they seem to sit neatly on the board and I am now not sure what to use a good replacement capacitor. Any advice on which type of capacitor gives good long term, reliable use? Tantalum, MLCC or old fashioned (leaky) dielectrics? Apologies if this has been covered under a separate thread - I am a newbie and thrilled to have found you all on '68k MLA'. Many thanks.
carguyty
Well-known member
I was waiting for techknight to contribute to this, but I think he's up to his megavolts in machines right now. I chose the tantalum SMDs in my situation because of several things:
They can be purchased from somebody here in the forums, further contributing to the welfare of the community
They provide a unique experience in retrofitting that does not require much rework
They are leak proof
They are SMD and provide a low-to-the-board fit lowering the risk of damage during board remove/install
I thought of the ceramic ones, and the idea of making feet out of the pins just sounded clumsy in comparison to the SMD style. And after I saw TK's response to my original battery still being installed, I figured using electrolytic caps was equally risky and should be avoided. They're cheap either way. Maybe buy a set of all three and see how you feel with them in your hand?
They can be purchased from somebody here in the forums, further contributing to the welfare of the community
They provide a unique experience in retrofitting that does not require much rework
They are leak proof
They are SMD and provide a low-to-the-board fit lowering the risk of damage during board remove/install
I thought of the ceramic ones, and the idea of making feet out of the pins just sounded clumsy in comparison to the SMD style. And after I saw TK's response to my original battery still being installed, I figured using electrolytic caps was equally risky and should be avoided. They're cheap either way. Maybe buy a set of all three and see how you feel with them in your hand?
carguyty
Well-known member
Update in parts!
I ordered v5 of SCSI2SD. Inertial Computing was very open in communication and shipping was quick. When it came, it was already loaded with the newest firmware, so that step was skipped. I had issue trying to setup the drives using the instructions here https://68kmla.org/forums/index.php?/topic/27215-fitting-a-scsi2sd-in-a-68k-mac/. No matter what I tried with drive names, SCSI IDs, partition sizes...nothing worked! I tried to use DD to copy my disk tools images and even that was failing to make floppies. Everything was against me. I can't explain it. Finally I decided to dig out the Legacy Software Restore disk and try to copy things from that instead of the images that are on my server.
When I went to double click on the disk tools image, it mounted as normal and I drag and drop the contents as just.in.time had suggested. Success!!! What's even better is that I was using the 7.5.3 disk tools so when the SE/30 booted from the floppy, it actually saw the SCSI2SD! BOTH IDs! So it finally completed the initialization successfully using that specific combination.
Funny part is that (this is all within OS 9.2.2 on an iBook 800) when I tried to mount the image for Install Disk 1, the OS chose to open Disk Copy 4.2 instead of 6.3.3! I had never seen this version. I had become disenchanted with Disk Copy when it wouldn't allow me to use the Make Floppies command from the pull down menu. But from within Disk Copy 4.2 (internally Disk Duplicator, v4.2) everything worked as I had been reading. This is heaven!
I am currently making the original system install disks from the USB floppy drive. The SE/30 is still in pieces as I wait on more parts to come in. Perhaps pictures will follow along with a bit of a guide on SuperDrive maintenance?
I ordered v5 of SCSI2SD. Inertial Computing was very open in communication and shipping was quick. When it came, it was already loaded with the newest firmware, so that step was skipped. I had issue trying to setup the drives using the instructions here https://68kmla.org/forums/index.php?/topic/27215-fitting-a-scsi2sd-in-a-68k-mac/. No matter what I tried with drive names, SCSI IDs, partition sizes...nothing worked! I tried to use DD to copy my disk tools images and even that was failing to make floppies. Everything was against me. I can't explain it. Finally I decided to dig out the Legacy Software Restore disk and try to copy things from that instead of the images that are on my server.
When I went to double click on the disk tools image, it mounted as normal and I drag and drop the contents as just.in.time had suggested. Success!!! What's even better is that I was using the 7.5.3 disk tools so when the SE/30 booted from the floppy, it actually saw the SCSI2SD! BOTH IDs! So it finally completed the initialization successfully using that specific combination.
Funny part is that (this is all within OS 9.2.2 on an iBook 800) when I tried to mount the image for Install Disk 1, the OS chose to open Disk Copy 4.2 instead of 6.3.3! I had never seen this version. I had become disenchanted with Disk Copy when it wouldn't allow me to use the Make Floppies command from the pull down menu. But from within Disk Copy 4.2 (internally Disk Duplicator, v4.2) everything worked as I had been reading. This is heaven!
I am currently making the original system install disks from the USB floppy drive. The SE/30 is still in pieces as I wait on more parts to come in. Perhaps pictures will follow along with a bit of a guide on SuperDrive maintenance?
carguyty
Well-known member
Ever so brief follow up...
When reading instructions from a manual in either highly specific technical manuals or even simple forum instructions, make sure to read each step before performing each step. Then make sure to read the step again. Read a step, do a step, read a step. This will keep you from staring at the screen for 2 hours wondering why you don't have enough room for install when you know good and well there's gigabytes of space available.
Tl;Dr - I forgot to partition the drive with HD setup after initialization and wasted time remaking several floppies. :I
When reading instructions from a manual in either highly specific technical manuals or even simple forum instructions, make sure to read each step before performing each step. Then make sure to read the step again. Read a step, do a step, read a step. This will keep you from staring at the screen for 2 hours wondering why you don't have enough room for install when you know good and well there's gigabytes of space available.
Tl;Dr - I forgot to partition the drive with HD setup after initialization and wasted time remaking several floppies. :I
