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TWO SLOT IIsi Nubus Card hack . . . (SE/30 hacks)

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
Proposed SE/30 config. derived from IIsi Hackage:

SE-30_Mezz_SlotHack.00.jpg

Dunno about clearances, but it looks doable on my Plus. You've just gotta hack the frame a bit higher. :approve:

 

Bunsen

Admin-Witchfinder-General
Have you modified the SE/30 logicboard PDS with machine pins there, or is that just a diagrammatic simpification? If so, why? As opposed to just mounting the appropriately gendered machine pin adapters on the rear of the first card.

It occurs to me that, barring address clashes and space issues, this approach could work for >1 PDS card in LC-PDS machines as well.

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
I love tangential (ostensibly off topic) discussions! Sooooooo . . .

< . . . sneaks back to change thread topic . . . [}:)] ]'> >

The IIsi has a wider case with ribbing molded on the bottom that provides vertical height for the Basement Hack that's unavailable in the Compact Mac cases.

@ Charlieman: the Sub-Basement Hack approach that you've suggested is what I'm using in the MacintoshClassicIIIColorTVp™ Hack, but it would be cheating for this exercise. I'm imposing a "Within the Case" limitation to my SuperIIsi™ Hack to keep comparisons of it with the SE/30 gamba hacks on an even footing, so the reverse would need to be true as well. I'm also limiting the SuperIIsi™ to period correct technology/expansion options.

backplaneplastics.jpg.f6ee1afe5f67398f86c9ff6085b28bca.jpg


When I benchmark the final SuperIIsi™ hack, I'll do so with and without the SCSI II DaughterCard and the external Fast SCSI II RAID in the StudioArray implementation to preserve the "within the case" comparison limitation. A third possible configuration would be using the StudioArray's Short Cable in a loop-back config for an internal Fast/SCSI II implementation. This I'll do in simulation because I don't want to muck up the IIsi plastics any more than I have to. The unobtanium status of the SCSI II DaughterCard for the Rocket precludes any possibility of a present day hack of internal cabling to its external connector's soldertail pins. However, when the gamba hacks were done to the SE/30 during its practical use lifetime, hacking the Rocket's DaughterCard in this manner to avoid "outside the case" cheating would have been duck soup! [}:)] ]'>

< . . . wonders why he's even trying to help Team SE/30 in this I/O hacking competition in the first place . . . ::) >

IDK, but I'm almost certain there's too little room in the mezzanine area of the SE and SE/30 at the rear of the case to leave the Stock PDS Connector on the MoBo intact for this hack.

1) Ceiling Height availability at the rear end of the mezzanine appears to be so tight that the Expansion Card PCBs will barely clear the metal ceiling at the rear end of the Chassis.

2) The Back-Side Connector Modification is required to clear the MoBo Components, even in the unlikely event that the MoBo PDS Connector can remain intact.

3) There is too little height available for the "Back-Side" Hacked PassThru Connectors, so an opening (SkyLight Hack) in the chassis will almost certainly need to be cut for them in any case.

4) If I had an SE/30 and wanted to try to compete with the SuperIIsi™/Rocket Hack, I think I'd probably resort to fabricating something similar to the clear plexi chassis of the MacintoshClassicIIIColorTVp™

macquariumchassis.jpg.0c079b861597306b00d88e0b5a102b60.jpg


This would open up a lot of expansion options for the Compacts. The only reason there's any vestige of the original Classic Chassis is that I want to demonstrate that the single Slot inverted Sonnetized MoBo Hack is practical within the confines of the Compact Mac case and chassis.

glassceilingedgeon.jpg.e15d96cb734656120b15c55394aa1782.jpg


5) The diagram in the previous post shows a Soldertail Socket mod to a PDS expansion card that would then be soldered to the SE/30 MoBo slightly lower than the top of the removed PDS Connector. I should have indicated this in the diagram, so I'll play with it in illustrator and post new diagrams.

6) Machine pins won't work for this hack unless they are available in a wire wrap configuration. This is something I'll be checking out as a more readily available (and more vertically flexible!) part than wire wrap NuBus/PDS EuroDIN Connectors. The Mezzanine Transition Card needs to be a Male/Female Config, which is why the Wire Wrap EuroDIN Connector is shown.

_____________________________________________________________________________________

As far as the hacking of LC 'zaBoxen (absolute worst case scenario in terms of cubic availability . . . the most challenging . . . therefore the most interesting "case" to me! :approve: ) goes, I don't recall seeing any LC PDS Cards that have a PassThru other than the PowerCache Adapters, but you've given me the notion to do a Betwixt-MoBo-n-NIC hack for my LC! I've got a VidCard for it on order with macmetex, we'll see about such possibilities when I figure out the rest of the Radius stuff for the order. It will more likely wind up a Betwixt-MoBo-n-VidCard NIC Hack on second thought. Dunno, I'll have to source a NIC as well before exploring such things, PseudoSlot Addressing issues allowing, of course.

All that has to wait until the toy budget begins to replenish after the shipping budget fills-n-empties. :-/

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
Now that I've been dragged (kicking and screaming) back into SE/30 territory yet again . . . :-/

< . . . wonders how he can get back at Bunsen for this . . . >

Has anybody got a borked SE/30 MoBo, a spare chassis or a spare borked/fugly case (or even just the bucket) for an SE/30 to donate to the cause for the cost of shipping? :?:

 

CC_333

Well-known member
Now that I've been dragged (kicking and screaming) back into SE/30 territory yet again...Has anybody got a borked SE/30 MoBo, a spare chassis or a spare borked/fugly case (or even just the bucket) for an SE/30 to donate to the cause for the cost of shipping? :?:
I have a case!
It's cosmetic condition probably doesn't matter, so you can have it as is.

It was actually my first compact Mac, but I'm willing to let it go in the name of education (which is what you're doing, so to speak; you're educating everybody here with your hackery.).

c

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
I took another look at the Mac Plus and it seems like the Mezzanine Slot Hack will leave the SE/30's PDS untouched . . .

. . . if it will work at all. It appears as though the Mezzanine Card will need to be mounted just a tad above the top of the PDS EuroDIN Connector. SolderTail Machine Pins replacing the PDS Card's Connector will do the job of raising the level of the card vertically and conserving vertical expansion space at the same time.

SE30_PDS_SlotHack.01.jpg

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
Unserviceable Slot Interrupt!!!!! [:D] ]'> YAY!!! Success . . .

. . . sort of, so far so good anyway! :approve:

And, amazingly enough . . . nothing had released the magic smoke to this point! 8-o

2NBS_VideoSplashBomb.2p.jpg

In this config I got the Radius splash screen, and then a boot to this error:

00000003

000000ff

Dunno, something like that, should have written it down . . .

. . . machs nix, when I hooked up the 12" RGB 'zaTopper after doing the documentation pics, I got the far more welcome error at the top of the post along with the Radius splash screen.

This was the fail at doing the machine pin Hack the way I'd originally envisioned doing it . . .

2NBS_FAIL.2p.jpg

. . . but the bent to hell and gone 40 pin DIP socket, witha few machine pin legs for support on the opposite side, did do a great job of applying the gravitational force from a 1 1/4 inch, half inch drive Socket to the SIP Machine Pin strip . . .

. . . very sketchy result, so I started nipping pins off the Machine Pin Header Strip and tried a few approaches to the soldering . . .

. . . I finally resorted to doing one fluxed pin at at time on top of a Ball Grid I laid atop the soldertail cones of the DuoDock Gemini Card . . .

2NBS_SolderJig.2p.jpg

. . . great feedback when the downward force on the matchstick settled the machine pin onto the ball-melted slodertail cone after heating the pin itself . . .

. . . . here's the more refined version I posted of the prospective hack on the previous page . . .

file.php


. . . and here's the first run at FuglyTyping the hack . . .

2NBS_edge-on.2.2p.jpg

. . . and a look at the topside connector/board section to be excised from the Gemini Adapter . . .

2NBS_CutOff.2p.jpg

. . . and another . . .

2NBS_CutOff.2.2p.jpg

. . . and this is a better overall look at this most evil hack. }:)

2NBS_AssemblyOblique.2p.jpg

Now to address the interrupt/addressing issues and figure out how to switch the power and ground lines of the Gemini card straight to the board level inputs of the ATX hacked PSU to get around the Power Budget bludgeoning of having a Rocket AND a second NuBus Card hacked onto the IIsi NuBus Adapter.

The Rocket alone is faaarr outside design specs fot IIsi MoBo and NuBus adapter all by itself.

Question: Is the power/ground service from an ATX MoBo Connector clean enough to route to the Gemini Card without line conditioning? :?:

Next Step: Lop off and clean up the top section of the Gemini Card to see if I can at least get the same results, or document any reduction or improvement in the address/interrupt train wreck. I'm figuring that removing some pins and patching to the proper address/interrupt lines on the RAW PDS pins of the NuBus Adapter might enable both NuBus Slots, leaving me a third set for the basement PDS hack.

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
I chopped the top off the Gemini Card, so the assembly will fit inside the IIsi . . .

Nothing changed, behavior is exactly as before. There are three possible states when the hacked Gemini Card is inserted into the IIsi NuBus Adapter:

A - Radius Card installed in top slot - Unserviceable Slot Interrupt

B - No NuBus Card installed - boots normally

C - Radius Card installed in bottom slot - boots normally

In Case C: If the Radius card were hooked up to the monitor, it would probably have the splash screen up from the ROM, but no comms with the MoBo, I did a screen shot and there's nothing in the Video Dump but the 12" RGB Display's window, as expected.

At any rate, now it fits!

2NBS_Gemini-Chop-Top.2p.jpg

This shot is a bit closer to the Illustrator diagram:

2NBS_edge-on-clipped.2p.jpg

That's enough for today. I started to look at the signals on the PDS and NuBus in Illustrator. Gotta figure out which IRQs, 1, 2 or 3 to hack onto the Gemini Card and how the rest of the PseudoSlot assignment for each slot needs to be tweaked to work with the IIsi. That'll leave one open IRQ for a PDS card underneath the MoBo. I'm thinking about using the Futura IISX/10bT daughtercard for the second NuBus slot if it works out and the RCP2/IIsi card for a decent MoBo monitor under RocketShare if I can get the Rocket to take over the Futura's screen.

Lots of playtime ahead on this silly hack, but it just might pan out! :approve:

 

Bunsen

Admin-Witchfinder-General
I chopped the top off the Gemini Card, so the assembly will fit inside the IIsi . . .
I don't quite get the point of using the Gemini in the first place, then. :?:

Ohhhh, the slot you lopped off was the one that connected the Gemini to the Duo Dock logic board, which is replaced by the DIY rear-facing header?

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
Zactly! :approve:

(graphic on p.1)

file.php


Next test series will be to disconnect enough signals on the Gemini Card to get the IIsi to boot with a Card in the slot, but without the conflict.

After that, it's on to hooking up the proper signals from the NuBus Adapter to get the direct connect NuBus card to function.

Maybe wiring up the second slot from connections on the PDS will be trivial once I understand enough about hardware slot addressing to get the top slot to work. :?:

It's really handy that the DuoDock Logic Board is just one humongous, multi-function '030 PDS Card . . .

. . . with the same NuBus Chipset as the IIsi adapter! }:)

I'm glad you responded, it's frustrating when so many seem to read about it, but nobody comments. :-/

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
The second rev of the SE/30 SlotHack at the top of the page might be helpful . . .

. . . and oh, just BTW . . . I never mentioned why that vertical card in the SE/30 diagram still has the RA connector intact . . .

. . . it's the IIsi's NuBus adapter. }:)

Figuring out WTHeck the missing /NuBus signal on the SE/30 PDS does for the IIsi PDS is a key part of this overall puzzle, so adding it to the SE/30 PDS might very well be possible.

One passing thought about the SE/30 would be the PowerCache adapter, it turn's the SE/30 slot into a IIci Cache Slot . . .

. . . has anyone tried to use the IIci PPC upgrade card in that adapter along with a IIci ROM SIMM to do an SE/30/PPC hack?

Might work better in the IIsi, but I feel the successful, impossible Rocket-in-a-IIsi hack has a much higher :cool: factor . . .

. . . an SE/30/PPC on the other hand . . . ;)

p.s. thanks for the comments, guys, my hack threads usually feel like a wasteland. ;D

 

markyb86

Well-known member
I would add more to the conversations but I feel like I am always derailing the train, or atleast adding too many cars/.

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
Well, consider the fact that you helped me to get back on track regarding the exploration of the differences between the SE/30 and IIsi PDS implementations as regards NuBus and that odd signal. Getting me thinking about the SE/30 diagram was a great reminder about that line of research.

I needed that jog, that's why I was thankful for the comments. ;)

 

olePigeon

Well-known member
We already know it's possible with the LC PDS slot. At least, there were advertisements for it. Does anyone know anybody that got the DGR Max/Power Workstation? Would be great to look at that 1-to-3 PDS expansion board, might lend some ideas.

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
Has anyone ever see or heard tell of the installation instructions or manual for that DGR box?

Spelunking that content on the wayback machine would be a great start. Meanwhile, I'm checking out Designing Cards and Drivers on this intentionally lazy Sunday afternoon . . .

. . . in between naps, movies and naps during movies. |)

 
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