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The Definitive Guide to Connecting your SE/30

Mk.558

Well-known member
I'm pleased you could do that. :)

On the other side, whoever wrote Fetch 2.1.2 needs a heap of cookies. Even today I'd pay the developers $20 for that thing. That is some good software. As I say in the Guide, it runs under System 6, is a FAT binary, fits on an 800K disk, works great with black and white 9" displays, and yeah. It's a really neat program.

 

Mk.558

Well-known member
Major additions:

  1. Revised the Compatibility list. Even after I wrote it, came back two months later, I marveled at how unintelligible it was. Too confusing. So now we have a CHART! with color! (sort of) It could use some helpful hints on the Linux part...
  2. We're toying around with old AppleShare versions. There's a section now there under the LocalTalk section in the More Info division. It's under construction currently, as...there's a lot of details to cover. (I for one lack the hardware :disapprove: )
  3. Added more info in the Disk Images section. I don't know but I couldn't get Rawrite or those fancy tools to work under XP. So I spun it around to suggest that the user make a Linux USB thumbdrive with Netatalk on it (which is what the media does, but mine is actually a really good idea).
  4. Tweaks and corrections. It just gets better and better! As always, I'd welcome tutorials on Windows 2000/2003 SFM, using telnet, building Netatalk (at least better than I wrote), if you have any real good Apple // stuff I think that could tacked on.


So yeah it's coming along.

 

Mk.558

Well-known member
I just made a little...discovery!

I found the applet MiniFinder tucked away in System 4.4/Finder 5.5. What a cool idea, once you figure how it works. The best news? It works with System 6! I'm using Mini vMac right now.

I suppose I'll have to go back and revise those 800K System 6 Networking disks with this...BETTER minifinder. It only takes 4K on disk, can start the regular finder with one button. Neat. Wonder if it'll work with System 7...

Edit: No...although I'd like to try it on the real hardware.

Edit2: Here it is in use:



HUH? That's a real head scratcher..."Install the MiniFinder using..." ???? Anyways I found it odd that if you closed the folder (in this case System Folder) containing an item you view the Info on (like MiniFinder) then the Get Info window also closes. :-/



 

Mk.558

Well-known member
Picked up an SE FDHD this past Friday and thus it was time to make some changes!

1.) Fixed up the Older AppleShare Versions section, made possible by the recent conquest.

2.) Added an image in the MacTCP section making a quick note about Access Privileges.

3.) Forgot to update the date of revision at the bottom. Oh well next time

4.) It has more pictures!

5.) Revisions to mention the Pre System 6 era stuff.

6.) The Chart has been tweaked a bit, but I imagine it's going to have that tidy little note near the top for a LONG time...

7.) The only things I know that are left to do on my list is to muck around with 7.0/7.1/7.5.3 network access disks. Telnet access...is interesting...but I don't know how long it'll be before I make headway on that. Windows SFM -- same thing.

 

tt

Well-known member
Mk.558, thanks for putting all this info together! I tried making a 7.1 NAD, but I haven't been successful. I was wondering if you had some pointers on how to make one. What I would like to do is be able to connect to the internet to use bbraun's excellent HTTP Disk. I am not too interested in AppleTalk functionality ATM, so if those components can be spared, it might help to provide more room. I am running an SE/30 with an Asante MacCon PDS ethernet card.

 

Mk.558

Well-known member
When I get my SE/30 boards back I will look into it. I'm mainly interested in a 7.5.3NAD.

I guess I could try it with the SE FDHD I have on hand but it's got only 1MB of RAM.

One problem with 7.1 is that there are a good number of installations meant for specific hardware platforms. So you won't be able to do like what I did and build a 6.0.8 Universal Network Access Disk. A 7.5.3 NAD will have to be split up into a 68K and a PPC version.

 

Mk.558

Well-known member
Updated again:

- Added a link in the Links section about the HTTP Disk. I might try that someday. It'd be real cute if it worked with System 6.

- Got the date updated right this time!

- Updated the Disk Images section.

- Put a mention about AAUI in the Hardware section.

Looking better all the time!

 

tt

Well-known member
I may have missed it, but after going through the guide, I don't really have a good sense of what each component being installed is used for and if it is optional or not for a given scenario. If I just want to access http/ftp without AppleTalk or AppleShare, etc, what components become unnecessary for a System 7 installation? I tried some experiments with a System 7.1 Disk Tools system folder, but I get the sense that system file is too neutered to get the networking aspects working properly.

 

Mk.558

Well-known member
To be honest I have not tried such a minimal install yet, but I'm sure I wouldn't mind.

If you'd like to access HTTP or FTP, you could try it over serial protocols and terminal software like zTerm, or telnet. I have no idea how to setup and use telnet software (most articles just assume you know how to use it). For System 7/7.1, NSI 1.5.1 is a requirement to install the ethernet drivers and networking base. AppleShare is simply for AppleTalk based networking, and HTTP/FTP doesn't relate to any of it. MacTCP is required; or you could try PPP over the serial ports, sort of a pseudo-dialup setup, which reminds me to PM someone here who's done it, as it is yet another way of networking.

If you wanted to try the MacTCP setup, try taking a 7.1DT System Folder and pluck it off the DT disk; use a hard disk as your "scratch media". Install NSI 1.5.1 on it, then copy over MacTCP onto it. Set up MacTCP, start an FTP server on an OS X Mac, then try to FTP into it with Fetch 2.1.2. I don't think there is enough space on 1.44MB to fit Fetch on; you could also try setting up the Personal Web Server and attempting to use the HTTP Disk thing.

Mainly the guide is meant for AFP type networking, the rest is supplementary.

 

Mk.558

Well-known member
This is going to be interesting since I have made a few small tweaks here and there over the past five or so months without really keeping track of what I did...

  • Added a screenshot for Oxyd 3.9. That game doesn't work well with screenshot utilities or Cmd+Shift+3. So I used SheepShaver, and that game is practically unusable in emulators (bombs minivMac, ball is uncontrollable in Basilisk II and SheepShaver).
  • Added a short section to cover the Amiga. Short version: tricky. Definitely worse off than Windows 98 networking, or the like.
  • Changed the Terminal line for writing OS X floppies to add a sudo prefix. 10.4 doesn't need it though, but...not everybody runs 10.4 anymore.
  • Things have been tweaked here and there but I've lost track of it!


I'm working on securing a copy of Windows Server 2000 for a demo of SFM, and we'll conduct testing to find out what is the scope and capabilities of it. Server 2003 is too expensive at this time.

 

Mk.558

Well-known member
More things:

  • Split up the Supplemental Information and FTP sections into a different page.
  • Added notes about Apple II networking.
  • Added a Word about Emulators. (Doesn't talk about the Classic Environment.)
  • There's a empty link in the second page on the header for Serial Data to remind myself to deal with it. First I have to deal with W2K SFM.
  • Cleaned up some of the notes for The Chart.
  • Added a section about IRC. Just a short demo with Homer 0.94 and a freenode server.
  • Fixed up the main image on the main page. The More Info page has a separate image and a link back to the main page.


More to come -- in awhile. :)

 
I've been out of the retro Mac scene for about a year and forgot a lot of the minor nuances of vintage Mac networking. Your guide: MAGNIFICENT. 8-o

 

Mk.558

Well-known member
Great!

I don't many replies about the Guide, so I just imagine everybody just is just agape with awe. :approve:

I did some searching to find out how to image disks (dump) in OS X. I was really looking for DC 4.2 compatible images but I guess that's just a pipe dream. During my searches I heard that the DC 4.2 feature is more or less borked in OS X. (Maybe it's to match the broken Grab feature from the Services menu...never worked on any OS X version I've ever used).

Here's my todo list so far:

1. Linux with Netatalk down to AS 1.1 and up to...?

2. Windows Server 2000 SFM

3. Serial Data Transfer (mac to OS X, mac to linux, and windows xp)

4. try to find out how to transfer via ftp in terminal a file that is not in the user directory: i.e. expanded PUT/GET usage

5. figure out minimum to access ftp or at least say how to do it

6. talk about http disk

I'm pleased that bbraun can cook up some useful software these days to help us. I'll have to work on a section covering his software.

I did dump every single link I linked to in the Guide so if something goes down (like Jolo's Bolo Pages), rest assured, I have it.

Once I get those boxes all ticked as best as I can, I'll get to relax! Usually when I'm on the computer I'll sneak in a few changes here or there, fixing typos or illogical sentences. I know my writing isn't spectacular or easy to follow (I'll be parsing the page and I'll be thinking, "Who on earth wrote that???") but best is better than something, and something is better than nothing, and nothing is better than being forced to dine on poisoned fish skeletons...

 

markyb86

Well-known member
For OSX disk dumping, I used disk utility to mount a floppy and create a *.dmg from it.

From there I had to use this http://forums.macresource.com/read.php?1,160169

just converting a DMG to an IMG.

I FTP'd it over to my 8.6 G3 and it mounted in 6.3.3. Now my goal is to get it on the SE (7.0.1) which also has 6.3.3 and see if I can't mount it, open 4.2 and 'create an image'

the goal is to skip the G3 middle man. That's about the easiest way I could think to do it.

 

Mk.558

Well-known member
Good updates today!

1. Added a section about Win 2000 Server SFM.

2. Added a section concerning the FTP server in 2000 Server. I may revisit both of these sections a little bit later, the machine used for this test had a borked Pin 1 on the RS232 port so I have another machine on the way. Kinda need the serial port...intact...

3. Added an image in the Disk Images section to help identify MFS versus HFS disks. I don't know of any methods in higher OS versions other than the drag-to-the-desktop "test". I'll be investigating further.

More. To. Come.

 

Macdrone

Well-known member
My SE30 has an asante pds ethernet card, no drivers installed that I can see, it has a pass through and a spot on the pds card for what looks like an FPU. Can I pop in one ? will it just work? Should I put one in or can I put in my daystar univerasal powercache? what needs drivers and where can I get them? I am sure I can search some more for these answers but this should keep the thread going until i find them. :) }:)

 

Mk.558

Well-known member
You don't need anything in there, AFAIK. I never had an Asante card but I know a lot of others do and they work fine.

You will need the drivers for the Asante card. The Farallon card that I used for my former SE/30 were already supported by the NSI installations.

To Come:

1. fix up the mystery section

2. figure out how to use GET/PUT to drop files in locations other than the home folder in OS X

3. 400K disk ID other than using System 6

4. find limitations of AppleShare IP 5.0.2 (mcdermd?)

5. talk about some of bbrauns software

6. serial data xfer

7. figure out the 10.3 connection limitations -- probably see if it can mount system 6 and/or if system 6 can see it in the chooser. I have heard of 10.3 anamolies with AFP (mcdermd?)

 

Blinkenlightz

Well-known member
spot on the pds card for what looks like an FPU. Can I pop in one ?
I thought the SE/30 had a built-in 68882 FPU on the logic board? My impression is that the FPU socket on SE/30 expansion cards are there for use in the IIsi which doesn't even have an FPU socket on the logic board.

 

Mk.558

Well-known member
1.) Fixed up the mystery section. One item won't work till we fix it.

2.) Updated the "updated" date correctly this time. :)

3.) Revamped the section that talks about what capabilities a Superdrive can do and instead replaced it with a much neater and cleaner itemized list.

4.) Small fixes and changes here and there, like adding a method to change the working directory on the client FTP with "lcd".

5.) I guess all we have for detecting an MFS disk from a HFS disk in System 7+ is to drag an item from the desktop. A 400K HFS disk won't pop a dialog box. (Considering there are options for 800K MFS disks too...)

6.) Cleaned up The Chart to reflect the new developments concerning Win 2000 Server SFM.

Next update will come in a little while. Maybe about two months.

 
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