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Terminating cheapo SCA -> 50Pin SCSI adapters

uniserver

Well-known member
Dear dreammacys,

hey i see you are selling these 68 to LVD…

i need SCA 68pin to SCSI 50pin…

you used to sell them just a few months ago…

what happened? i need like 50!!!

please let me know!

- morestuffuniwho

Dear morestuffuniwho,
hi there ,

the item was sold out , the new goods will come after Feb- 10 .

and the price will be higher becaue the purchase cost is increased .

it will be $0.9 more than the original for each one .

would you want them ?

- dreammacys
Dear dreammacys,

yeah man get those in… thanks… you were my guy… the only guy on the planet selling these for a reasonable price.

not only me but i know of a guy in the UK that buys these from you and ADDS termination with some caps and resistors

because they do not naturally come with termination. i don't thin 9 cents is going to effect peoples buying habits of them.

ThankYou!

- morestuffuniwho

Dear morestuffuniwho,
ok, , we will change the price when the goods come, then you can order them .

best regards

- dreammacys
 

max1zzz

Well-known member
Brilliant ;)

I'll order some more of them then

i'm gonna order some of these PCB's anyway, might as well now i have them drawn up

 

bigmessowires

Well-known member
Anyone here have experience with making PCB's?looking to use this service: http://imall.iteadstudio.com/open-pcb/pcb-prototyping/im120418002.html

got all they way to generating the gerbers (using the file on the download tab on that site)

but i seem to be missing this file: Outline layer: pcbname.GKO

anyone know how i generate it?
I've not used itead, but I've used Seeed and Smart Prototyping to make PCBs, and been mostly happy with both.

GKO is apparently the keep-out area, though I don't remember seeing it generated when I make a board with Eagle. See http://www.4pcb.com/pcb-file-submissions.html

 

max1zzz

Well-known member
Placed the order, so i guess i'll be seeing if the gerbers are formatted right soon (i can't think why there would be any problem with them)

Now... back to seeing if i can find cheap SCA connectors, don't really want to harvest them from chineese boards of i can avoid it

 

uniserver

Well-known member
yeah i dont blame you…

i am sure they get them from a distributor over there.

there is a phone number on this SCA to 50 pin adaptor i have here

tel 13316907839

- maybe you could call them and as to buy just some SCA connectors… if no…. then ask where they get them from.

never hurts to ask.

even jobs said him self said:

rarely did I get a "no" when directly asked for things.
 
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max1zzz

Well-known member
heh, maybe i should

i'm just gonna use the one i found in the uk for the first board, once i know the pcb's are correct i'll do some more digging

It's much easyier to search for them now i have found part numbers or a couple of parts

 

trag

Well-known member
Two thoughts, and I wish I had seen this before you ordered boards.

First, you might email your supplier of SCA to 50 pin adapters and ask him if he can get the components unassembled. You need everything except the circuit board anyway, and it should save him money with his supplier if they just ship the unassembled components.

I don't know if their flow will allow that to work, but it is another avenue, in case you can't get to a SCA connector manufacturer, or in case they want too much volume.

Second, would you mind explaining your termination scheme? It looks to me like you're tieing Term. Pwr. to the signal lines through 110 ohm resistors with a couple of diodes in the line to step down the voltage. I see what you're trying to do, but it is not going to be reliable. According to the literature, you can't count on Term. Pwr. being a reliable 5V. Plus, your voltage seen at the signal pin isn't constant because it depends on the current that flows through the single resistor -- no connection to ground, and that will change as the signal switches between 0 and 1. I'm willing to believe that I've overlooked some trick of electronics that makes this a reliable termination method, but it looks like a contraption for wildly varying termination current/impedance to me.

If one is going to tie the signal pins to Term. Pwr through 110 ohms of resistance, then the Term. Pwr. needs to be a voltage regulated source of 2.85V. This is active termination and it requires an actual voltage regulator in the circuit, such as an LT1086CT.

If you're not going to use a voltage regulator, then the old method of passive termination is to tie the signal pins to ground through 330 ohms and to Term. Pwr. through 220 ohms. This still has the problem that Term. Pwr. may not actually be 5V, but it has the virtue that the voltage at the signal pin is constant because of the voltage divider created between Term. Pwr and ground.

 

max1zzz

Well-known member
Interesting idea on asking for the boards unassembled, since that would give me all the parts. anyway, i'll work more on this once i have the pcb's, the ones i found in the uk are cheap enough for me to do initial testing.

How it is terminated is tieing 5v to the scsi lines through either 110ohm or 150ohm resistors (depending on if i'm using smd's or repacks, so in the case of these it will be 150ohm) plus 2 diodes (i'm using 1n4001's)

I did initially try using a 3.3v voltage regulator but just couldn't ever get it to work

i'll build a quick one using the active termination method at the weekend and see if i can get it working.

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
Everybody keep on the lookout for the dumpster ballast level Sun SPARCstation 5 for some real goodies inside. There's a 2 SCA Drive backplane and cable in there with that's probably one of the very best Active Termination setups ever made! [:D] ]'>

After I drill out a bunch of spot welds I'll post a thread about this backplane bonanza. I've (almost literally) been sitting on this Pile-O-SPARCstations I picked up at something like $5 ea. I was filching the purple blank and FDD Bezels out of one of the three 5s in the stack for use in a Sun Tape Drive Case and discovered this gem by accident this morning.

 

max1zzz

Well-known member
That'd defiantly be interesting to see, do you think it is something that could be replicated in the limited space of the SCA though?

i'll be doing some playing with vreg's after collage tommrow, hopefully i still have some lm317's around, if i can get that working i will switch to using that

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
I was thinking more in terms of using the entire assembly in a larger Mac, but I'll get you some clear shots of the components/PCB for development purposes.

 

max1zzz

Well-known member
Ok, i really don't know why i couldn't get this working in the past

Used a bit of a crude setup to do some testing

[attachment=0]photo(20) copy.jpg[/attachment]

I couldn't get exactly 2.85v, but i tried a couple of differen't setups with the lm317, one gave 3.03v and one gave 2.5v. Both worked successfully

Then i tried a 3.3v regulator i had previously tried and that had failed, that also worked

So from now on i will use voltage regulators in all new builds

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
file.php


I like that setup, it's right in tune with my living room decor, ATM. Mac shui! ;D

 

techknight

Well-known member
Whats with the jellybean 78XX regulator? You might have a better streamline/crammage if you chose the 78LXX regulators, which come in a TO-92. Or, swap with a 1117 which comes in a SOT-89.

 

uniserver

Well-known member
i have been using your adaptors in many different mac's and they have been working out fantastic for me… not one issue.

isn't this what were doing here, passive termination?

http://computer.howstuffworks.com/scsi4.htm

TerminationIf the SCSI bus were left open, electrical signals sent down the bus could reflect back and interfere with communication between devices and the SCSI controller. The solution is to terminate the bus, closing each end with a resistor circuit. If the bus supports both internal and external devices, then the last device on each series must be terminated.

Types of SCSI termination can be grouped into two main categories: passive and active. Passive termination is typically used for SCSI systems that run at the standard clock speed and have a distance of less than 3 feet (1 m) from the devices to the controller. Active termination is used for Fast SCSI systems or systems with devices that are more than 3 feet (1 m) from the SCSI controller.
i love simplicity. if it works don't fix it…

 

max1zzz

Well-known member
The big reg is a LM317, just there for testing, will be using LM1117's for the actual adapter

The way they are terminated is actually closer to active termination, as trag mentioned earlier in the thread passive termination entails using two sets of resistors

And there isn't anything wrong with the way i have been doing it, just it relies on the 5v rail being the correct voltage, so if they where used in a computer with a wacked out 5v rail there is a chance you could get some damage (but if you have a wacked out 5v rail your probably gonna damage something anyway)

The regulators don't add any extra cost to the adapter, there a couple of pence each from china, + a tiny square of pcb (which i'll produce myself)

 
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