System 7.5 sound in options for Roland MT32

[Dimitris1980]

Hello,

i have a roland MT32 sound device for the sierra on line games which was connected to my Macintosh Performa 6116 (Mac OS 7.6, Mac OS 8,1). In order to hear the sound i have to go to sound panel, sound in options, choose the mic option and then the listen box. My roland MT32 is now connected to my Macintosh LC475 with system 7.5. The device is connected correctly, the midi messages work great but i cannot hear the sound because at the 'sound in' options there is nothing to choose (av connector, mic, cd). What can i do?

Regards

Dimitris

 

[commodorejohn]

I'd strongly recommend just hooking the MT-32 up to a dedicated amplifier and speakers; it'll sound better and be less hassle.

 

[Dimitris1980]

This sounds interesting. The roland mt32 has one cable with two 5.5 jacks that are connected to L,R ports of the roland. The other edge (3.5 jack) is connected to the microphone port of the macintosh). The other cables are connected between the roland, the macman midi interface and the serial port of the macintosh. What i have to do to connect the roland to an amplifier?

 

[commodorejohn]

Nothing much, just get a cable that connects the outputs of the MT-32 to whatever the amplifier or powered speaker uses as an input. You can get the relevant cables/converters off eBay or at any local music shop.

 

[nglevin]

The MT-32 "sound module" and the CM-32/64 are MIDI driven synths.

As you've seen, the software doesn't really have knowledge of what sounds are coming out of the module, they're just handled like MIDI driven synthesizers from a DAW like Cubase.

On OS X capable Macs that had a separate jacks for audio in and audio out, I used to be able to connect my MT-32 to the audio-in jack, use software to mix the audio input with the sounds fed through my internal sound card, and have all audio routed through audio-out.

Mac OS 7-9 should be able to provide something similar through the Sound Manager extension, but I don't know what combination of Control Panel settings can do that.

That setup won't give you the best audio quality, compared to giving the MT-32 its own amp + speaker. Especially on the classic Mac OS, which downsamples all audio mixed through Sound Manager to 16-bit PCM samples. But it saves you from having to buy another speaker.

 

[olePigeon]

MT-32
     If you intend to use the Roland MT-32 for sound, you must place
     the "Apple MIDI Driver" and "MIDI Manager" files into your system
     folder and reboot your machine before playing.

 

[Dimitris1980]

All the drivers for roland are installed to the proper places. I have done the same process like at my performa 6116. But as i said if i want to hear the sound i have to go also to the sound panel, sound in, built in options and choose the mic. These 'sound in' options do not exist at the sound panel of the LC475.

But before that i installed a 4.5gb hard drive in my macintosh performa 6116 in order to make two partitions and install System 7.5 for the LC475 and Mac OS 8.1 in order to be able (due to format) to copy lots of games and programs to system 7.5 folder. Then i took the hard drive and placed it inside the LC475. I did all this process because i do not have a cd rom drive for the LC475 or diskettes. Maybe i have to install the System 7.5 directly to the LC475 (i used the apple legacy cd for the installation). Soon i will acquire an external apple 4x cd rom drive so i am gonna install the operating system from the beginning directly to the 475.

 

[Bunsen]

When you installed 7.5 in the 6116, did you tick the option to install for "Any Mac"?  It may be that the installer put in a version of the sound control panel that is compatible only with the 6116, and it is looking for the wrong sound input hardware when you run it on the 475.

 

[Dimitris1980]

Well, i noticed one difference. I run again my Power Macintosh G3 Minitower and in Mac OS 8.1 at the Monitors and Sound panel there is an extra option regarding the Sound Monitoring Source where you can choose microphone or cd or something else. The sound monitoring source does not exist in Mac OS 8.1 on my Macintosh LC475 and on System 7.5.5. So there are no options in order to choose the mic in sound in and i cannot hear the sound on the LC475.

 

[nglevin]

I still maintain that, if you set up your computer audio system like it was done "back in the day", the synth should not be connected to the computer's microphone or "sound in" jack. That will cause the synth's audio to be downsampled to the level of your computer's audio input, which for most 68k Macs (and confirmed for that one in particular) is going to be mono 8 bit at 22 kHz. The MT-32 has a really high quality digital effects unit, and you're going to lose at least some bass in the conversion, along with the stereo mix.

I recommend connecting some dedicated, high quality speakers to your synth instead.

Otherwise, I'm surprised that you're having this much difficulty finding the option to pass audio input through your Mac's audio output. I wouldn't expect "Monitors & Sound" to do anything for an LC475 since "Monitors & Sound" was originally made for AppleVision monitors with integrated speakers; there should instead be a dedicated Sound control panel that has a checkbox to pass through and downsample that audio.

EDIT: I'll note that I don't have this specific LC, and I'm largely recalling experiences with synths on 68k Macs. I imagine the intersection of LC475 users that have used an MT-32 is quite small, considering General MIDI and QuickTime soft synths were more in vogue by the time that LC was released.

EDIT THE SECOND: Quick look at the wiki mentions that the LC475 supports line-level audio input and not mic-level input, which suggests that you might need a pre-amplifier if you're trying to use a cable to route your synth's audio directly to the Mac. If so, that seems like a waste of a good pre-amplifier, for reasons stated above.

 

[Dimitris1980]

The attached pictures shows the cable where the two 5.5mm edges are connected to the output jacks of the roland mt32 and the one 3.5mm edge to the sound in of the macintosh's sound in. So i can use the same cable but with the 3.5mm jack connected on the input of an amplifier or powered speakers? I checked my logitech z230 speakers but they do not have any input port.

 

[nglevin]

I assume you mean the Logitech Z2300 PC speakers, which (manual) regrettably have the cable with the 3.5mm output jack attached to subwoofer through what it calls a "d-sub plug" instead of a standard 3.5mm input jack? (Looking at this; what is a "wired remote control" and why is this permanently attached as part of the cabling itself? This product design looks so terrible.)

Ideally, you would have two speakers with 1/4in TS Male inputs individually for the left and right speakers. For computer speakers and bluetooth speakers, they usually have a stereo 3.5mm minijack that would work for that purpose as well.

Given what you're left with, I think you'd be best off talking to a store that specializes in selling music instruments to explain what you have to work with, because they might know of a hardware mixer that could jimmy rig the LC's audio out, the Roland MT-32's output, and this odd set of computer speakers you have so that you can use all three together.

On the other hand, pre-owned speakers aren't that expensive even on fleaBay. Might as well search for a pair that can give good quality sound with a 3.5mm jack.

 

[nglevin]

Before I forget, the simplest and cheapest option is really to go with a 3.5mm stereo female to 3.5mm stereo female adapter, like this one from Monoprice. I'm hopeful that the Logitech speakers will just work with this, and especially for the price, it's worth trying.

LC audio will still be coming from the internal speaker or you'll have to juggle the speakers around, without some mixer sitting between them to balance their audio levels without degrading audio quality.

The true "back in the day" approach I had was to have a hardware mixer and an amp on my PC as I also had a Disney Sound Source along with the MT-32 compatible (actually an LAPC-I).

I never had a SoundCanvas to cover General MIDI, by then I was pretty OK with the quality of average PC sound cards.

 

[Cory5412]

To add, briefly, about this: Apple's own high end multimedia speakers from this era had dual inputs, Mac audio and CD audio. If you had something other than a CD-ROM drive for your computer, you could have used the CD input connection on the AppleDesign Powered Speakers to play sound from it.

If you have both, you might be able to get a switchbox, such as one of the cheap a/v switchers from the late '90s and early '00s that handled switching composite and s-video signals (and their respective audio) for TVs with fewer analog inputs than people might have had devices. (My family had one of these with several game systems hanging off of it, for example.)

 

[Dimitris1980]

nglevin you were right! I bought an adapter like you said from a local store here in Greece and now i can hear the roland. Great quality. The only problem is that i have to get another pair of speakers to connect them in the sound port of the LC475 because on some games (like Freddy Pharkas for instance), some effects are coming from the LC475. I think also that in some spots the sound is a little different than my Performa 6116 and Power Macintosh G3 Minitower where i could choose the sound in via mic and i could hear all the sound from the computer. Dos users are very lucky because there are many games that support Roland MT. The music is so much better than a soundblaster. I have also a Cyrix 120+ dos/windows 95 pc but i miss the roland mpu ipc card (i have only the breakout box). Below some pictures:

 

[commodorejohn]

Rather than another pair of speakers, just get an inexpensive 4-channel mixer.

 

[Dimitris1980]

Like that for instance?

https://www.thomann.de/gr/behringer_micromix_mx400.htm?glp=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAzuPuBRAIEiwAkkmOSBKo09nvZvo4GMmaTUU9JZvy684AH6h_T46KXG-RTJ-wwbKUOu9XzhoCf4wQAvD_BwE

 

[Dimitris1980]

I would like to thank you all for the helpful answers. Some things are not difficult except for the first time but i am glad that we find a solution. I have already sent a message for the above mixer at a local store near my home. This may be also a solution for the cd rom drive. On my Performa 6116 and Power Macintosh G3 (and also for the Imac G3 and Powermac G4 MDD), i choose at the sound in panel the "cd" option in order to hear music from cd or games that their music are directly from the cd drive. On my Macintosh LC475, because of the external cd drive i have to unplug the speakers from the computer and plug them in the cd drive sound port. Some games play music from the cd and the effects and speeches from the macintosh speaker. So it would be cool to have a mixer in order to use only one pair of speakers and adjust the sound volume the way i like. Can you tell me what type of cables do i need for the connection ?

Thank you

Dimitris from Athens, Greece



Back view of Roland MT32, a cable with two 5.5mm edges is connected. The other one pc of edge 3.5mm cable is connected in the female 3.5mm adapter.



Macintosh LC475



Cable where the two edges 5.5mm are connected in Roland (see first top picture) and this one edge 3.5mm is connected on the 3.5mm adapter, on the other side is the speakers cable connected.



Roland MT32



The speakers cable connected in the cd rom drive sound port.



The speakers cable connected in the Macintosh LC475



Full system.

 

[cheesestraws]

I use a similarly-priced Behringer mixer to that for my music computer, and it's a nice bit of equipment.  I'm sure that one will be fine, BUT: that is a mono mixer.  It has four mono inputs and one mono output.  So if you want stereo, you're going to need two of those, one for each channel.  There's no pan controls on it, so you can't repurpose two of the mono inputs into a stereo input, and it doesn't have a stereo output.