SE Revival

[mfny]

Hi all,

So I have had a SE lurking around here for quite some time, When I got it I did have it running but then I shelved it and also pulled some memory from it and the accelerator inside it(more on this later) for other things and generally not done much with it. Now I feel like getting it running again, putting it "back together" properly and with a  SD to SCSI adaptor installed.

I assume all I need to do this is buy a SD to SCSI from here: https://amigakit.amiga.store/product_info.php?products_id=1264, buy a decant 2GB SD card and follow the advice/instructions here: http://www.savagetaylor.com/2018/01/05/setting-up-your-vintage-classic-68k-macintosh-using-a-scsi2sd-adapter/ ?

Also this SE has an accelerator in it that I have never been able to properly identify therefore presumably get properly working with the correct software. I now have access to a phone with a really good camera so will take some pictures of this in the next 24 hours and post in this thread and see if anyone here can identify.. Though I believe I have asked about this here in the past with no luck.

 

[mfny]

Google Photo Gallery Here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/VyYmV3dYmmPdwRTE9

At the moment with this card I have installed the Applied Engineering TransWarp 030 Control Panel. This correctly identifys the 030 at least. The card itself however is clearly not a AE Transwarp but a Total System's card. I did try the Total Systems Gemstart drivers from here: https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/accelerator-card-drivers without any success at all.

[SIZE=13.12px]No matter what I do in terms of adding SIMMS to the card(from the variety of SIMMS pictured in the gallery) I always end up with 4MB of RAM, the same as the total on board the SE main board itself.[/SIZE]

Anyone able to offer any advice/infomation on this setup on how best to get it fully working with the correct software ?

 

[cheesestraws]

I have installed the Applied Engineering TransWarp 030 Control Panel. This correctly identifys the 030 at least. The card itself however is clearly not a AE Transwarp but a Total System's card. I did try the Total Systems

If I remember correctly, a number of accelerator cards were sold both with AE and Total Systems branding.  In those cases, you will have more luck with the driver for the same card with a different brand than the same brand but potentially a different card.  Gemstart is, IIRC, for the Gemini accelerators, which are something different.  (I'm a bit out of my area of expertise here, so others may correct me).

 

[Crutch]

Gemini is a line of accelerators from Total Systems. I can’t pull up your google photos for some reason, but if it is indeed a Total Systems accelerator GemStart should very likely work. Did you try the various configs for different accelerators on install? 
 

Most/all of these accelerators for the Plus at least (on the SE, I’m not sure - I have lots of experience accelerating Pluses but don’t have an SE) won’t let you actually use more than 4MB of ordinary RAM but may make another 4MB available as a RAM disk, or simply make the 4MB of RAM faster by putting it on the 030 bus. 

 

[mfny]

Also ..



 
I will at some point want/need to install a fresh copy of OS 7.1 onto this system so how would I do this exactly ?



 
I have at my disposal the following..
 



Transmac, a old Windows ME system, a modern Windows 10 system, a floppy drive for the ME system and a USB floppy drive for the Win 10 system and a bunch of floppy disks. Also have a SCSI external ZIP 100 Drive, 1 ZIP Disk and a SCSI card for the Win ME system as well.



 
What should I do to get an OS (re)installed on the SE with the above ?
 
Should note my SE has a 800k FDD to..
 
Really overall I am just tying to untangle all this and the accelerator thing and maybe the SD to SCSI thing and hopefully end up with the best setup I can for the SE.

 

[blusnowkitty]

Also ..



 
I will at some point want/need to install a fresh copy of OS 7.1 onto this system so how would I do this exactly ?



 
Should note my SE has a 800k FDD to..

You have these options:

- Upgrade your SE to a 1.44MB SuperDrive

- Put hard drive into another Mac with a 1.44MB drive and install 7.1 that way, then move drive back to SE

- Buy a Floppy Emu

PCs can't write 400/800k disks at all, but they can write Mac-formatted 1.44MB floppies. 

 

[mfny]

You have these options:

- Upgrade your SE to a 1.44MB SuperDrive

- Put hard drive into another Mac with a 1.44MB drive and install 7.1 that way, then move drive back to SE

- Buy a Floppy Emu

PCs can't write 400/800k disks at all, but they can write Mac-formatted 1.44MB floppies. 

Is it as simple as buying a 1.44MB SuperDrive from ebay and replacing the 800k drive ?

The only other old Mac I have is a Power Macintosh 7600 w/G3 accelerator which I dont think can even boot 7.1 to install onto the HD from the SE ?

The Floppy Emu for old macs is probably way to expensive for me assuming you mean this: https://www.bigmessowires.com/floppy-emu/

 

[cheesestraws]

Is it as simple as buying a 1.44MB SuperDrive from ebay and replacing the 800k drive ?

Unfortunately not - that will make the 1.44MB drive work as an 800K one.  You also need to replace the IWM and the ROM, I believe, so the computer knows how to use the extra space.

I dont think can even boot 7.1 to install onto the HD from the SE ? 

I think you can run the installer from later versions of the OS - I'm pretty sure I've installed 7.1 from inside 7.5.x (though that memory is fuzzy).  Failing that, you can copy the installer and all the discs onto the hard disc and install it from there.  It's not particularly fussy about being installed from floppy.

 

[mfny]

Unfortunately not - that will make the 1.44MB drive work as an 800K one.  You also need to replace the IWM and the ROM, I believe, so the computer knows how to use the extra space.

I think you can run the installer from later versions of the OS - I'm pretty sure I've installed 7.1 from inside 7.5.x (though that memory is fuzzy).  Failing that, you can copy the installer and all the discs onto the hard disc and install it from there.  It's not particularly fussy about being installed from floppy.

Oh so something along the lines of plug HD or SD To SCSI from the SE into the 7600, make a set of 7.x.x disks or even a CD, run the 7.x.x installer from said CD/Disk in OS 9.1 on the 7600 and point it at the HD or SD w/ SD to SCSI intended for the SE and done ?

 

[cheesestraws]

Oh so something along the lines of plug HD or SD To SCSI from the SE into the 7600, make a set of 7.x.x disks or even a CD, run the 7.x.x installer from said CD/Disk in OS 9.1 on the 7600 and point it at the HD or SD w/ SD to SCSI intended for the SE and done ?

That's what I'd try, personally.  I'm pretty sure that works under 7.5.x, I haven't tried it on anything newer.

edit: just make sure you don't reformat the hard disc as HFS+ ("MacOS Extended") or it won't work on older macs.  You probably don't need to reformat the disc at all, though.

 

[blusnowkitty]

You didn't mention the 7600 before

That makes things a lot simpler because you can just use Disk Copy to write 7.1 images to an actual disk. They'll write 800k disks no problem, provided your floppy drive still works.

 

[mfny]

That's what I'd try, personally.  I'm pretty sure that works under 7.5.x, I haven't tried it on anything newer.

I can even make this even easier by copying the 7.x.x CD ISO to the 7600 hard drive(its actually a SD card hanging off of a SD to IDE adapter and a Sonnet IDE PCI card) in Transmac and use something to mount that ISO on the 7600 and so on.. basicly then need to use zero media optical or floppy at all ?

 

[mfny]

You didn't mention the 7600 before

That makes things a lot simpler because you can just use Disk Copy to write 7.1 images to an actual disk. They'll write 800k disks no problem, provided your floppy drive still works.

Drive still works but all I  have are a random selection of 1.44 floppys that I have done the tape trick to make into 800k ones and they ... sometimes work... my mileage has varied a lot on this in the past.

 

[cheesestraws]

I can even make this even easier by copying the 7.x.x CD ISO to the 7600 hard drive(its actually a SD card hanging off of a SD to IDE adapter and a Sonnet IDE PCI card) in Transmac and use something to mount that ISO on the 7600 and so on.. basicly then need to use zero media optical or floppy at all ?

Probably, yeah - I keep the floppy images in DiskCopy format on my server and just use DiskCopy 6 to mount them when I need them, which is a similar process.

 

[blusnowkitty]

Drive still works but all I  have are a random selection of 1.44 floppys that I have done the tape trick to make into 800k ones and they ... sometimes work... my mileage has varied a lot on this in the past.

Fortunately, PC 720k disks are still relatively plentiful and cheap to buy in bulk lots. They'll format to Mac 400 or 800k no problem.

 

[mfny]

Uhh... soo to get to the hard drive in the SE I am going to have to take the whole damn thing apart it looks like ? oh boy. :vent:

 

[Bendix]

I assume all I need to do this is buy a SD to SCSI from here: https://amigakit.amiga.store/product_info.php?products_id=1264, buy a decant 2GB SD card and follow the advice/instructions here: http://www.savagetaylor.com/2018/01/05/setting-up-your-vintage-classic-68k-macintosh-using-a-scsi2sd-adapter/ ?

Basically yes. But...

I had a lot of trouble with the SCSI2SD and any other external SCSI Devices on the bus. As soon as I connected an external hard drive, the internal SCSI2SD Card behaved weirdly, that is it presented itself with another geometry/size and therefore was not usable at all. So I could never copy things to or from an external drive, which I found frustrating.

I discovered that in my SE/30 it was mandatory to connect the SCSI2SD card with a power cable (like the one on the pic), though most docs on the net will say, that this is unneccessary because the card will pull its power from the SCSI bus.

 

[mfny]

What would be the largest Hard Drive size, Partition size and number of Partitions supported on the SE with system 7 ?

 

[avadondragon]

For system 7.1.1 the partition size limit is 2GB.  Disk size can go much higher if you partition the drive into multiple 2GB partitions