SE/30 bus errors writing CF in a PCD-50B

[theodric]

I wonder if anyone else has encountered issues with constant bus errors being thrown when writing (including copying within the device) to a CF card in a PCMCIA-to-CF adapter in a PCD-50B SCSI card reader?

-External SCSI box has a terminator attached.

-The PCD-50B does not provide TERMPWR...but that shouldn't be a huge issue on the SE/30, right?

-Reading CF and writing to disk seems to work fine.

-Generally doing whatever you want on the hard disk does not result in bus errors ever, no matter where it's connected along the bus. System is rock-stable.

-Writing to the CF is not always a problem, in that I have an OS installed on the CF and it's bootable, but once it starts bus erroring it never stops. I've had the OS installer crash a few times and had to retry.

-Disk First Aid comes up clean on the CF.

-I've tried different sizes/brands of CF cards but there seems to be no difference.

-I have the same issue no matter if the CF drive is on the internal SCSI bus or the external.

-I have not noted any behavioral differences between System 7.0, 7.1.1 or 7.5NAD.

Baffling! Suggestions greatly appreciated!

 

[Mk.558]

I'd like to know how many people are using these devices and how good they work, since I'm tempted to gut the HDD of the SE/30 and replace it with one of these. Even better would be to have a cleanly cut hole in the back somehow that will allow swapping of CF modules.

 

[JDW]

That thing is an eyesore:

http://www.psism.com/scsi50band60b.htm

Where in THE world do you put it? I would think this to be a better solution overall because (a) it is out of view and ( B) the seller provides some benchmarks for it:

http://www.artmix.com/CF_AztecMonster.html

The AztecMonster is actually being discussed over at VintageMacs:

http://groups.google.com/group/vintage-macs/browse_thread/thread/b99ed0c162700ea4?hl=en#

Now if it can be shown that the PCD-50B is noticeably faster than the AztecMonster solution, then I might find the PCD-50B a tad appealing. But even then, where do you put that thing? You never posted a photo. Is it in a zero-footprint enclosure, such that it would fit directly beneath the SE/30?

 

[tt]

As cool as the AztecMonster may be, it seems the discussion is unfortunately now more about lack of delivery of the product.

 

[JDW]

That's why I pushed that fellow in the Vintage Macs thread to demand some answers from the seller, Manabu Sakai -- a man from whom I myself have purchased a few hundred dollars worth of SE/30 merchandise in the past. He's not dishonest, just a bit eccentric.

 

[tt]

JDW, you might be one of Manabu's biggest clients. Maybe you could ping him about the status of his latest creation for the community.

 

[JDW]

I actually tried to call him on the phone once in the past. His mother answered and wanted to know why I was calling. I spoke to her in Japanese and said "to discuss a CF card adapter." She then told me her son told her I was bugging him about that product via email. I said that was not true and I was only inquiring about performance. (This was prior to the new adapter he as out now.) She told me her son said otherwise and I said in my best diplomatic Japanese that all I wanted to do was briefly speak with Manabu about the product he was selling so I could consider purchasing it. She put me on hold and then came back 30 seconds later to say he refused to speak with me. She was very polite though so it appears that she understood what I said was true (or perhaps she just acted that way to humor me, I don't know). At any rate, that is why I said Manabu Sakai is eccentric.

I feel I got what I paid for on other items I had purchased from in prior to that, which included his expensive TS Adapter. He even loaned me one of his high powered SE/30 power supplies so I could debug an SE/30 too. He trusted me that I wouldn't steal it, and after I was done with it I of course shipped it back to him at my expense. But it was after all that he became what I consider "eccentric" in that he refused to give me specifics about performance of his older version CF adapter. Funny, because now on his new adapter he puts a performance graph up there for all to see. So I guess that was my indirect contribution in all this.

 

[theodric]

Guess nobody else has a PCD-50B, then :?:

I actually ordered one of the AztecMonsters shortly after making my original post in this thread, and was told the same thing (factory has production problems; it will be ready 10-14 days later) that I had been told fully two weeks earlier when I first made an enquiry about availability and shipping. I thought perhaps he was working with a fabricate-on-demand supplier, but it appears the reality may be less pleasant.

Where in THE world do you put it?

It actually fits inside the SE/30, even with an Ethernet card and daughterboard installed to the back of the chassis. Granted, you have to mount it pretty far back for the required PCMCIA-CF adapter to clear the front of the case, and you can only attach it with two screws, but it fits nevertheless. I acquired a longer internal SCSI cable with the intention of mounting the reader backwards, with the SCSI connection toward the front of the case and the CF pointing out toward the back, to permit swapping cards with only a removal of the rear cover required (as I'm not interested in cutting a hole in the back of my case). However, the fact that only more esoteric software (FWB) will even format installed cards (A/UX Drive Setup and Lido cough and die with an error that they cannot write to the drive) dampens my enthusiasm for making the effort necessary to keep separate System 6/7 Pro, A/UX, and Debian cards around.

Since the AztecMonster was designed specifically with systems like the SE/30 and Plus in mind, I'm hoping that - should I ever receive it - it will prove a less-annoying alternative to both the terribly finicky PCD-50B and noisy, aging hard disks.

 

[tt]

Yeah, the PCD-50B does not seem to be so pervasive in the market...sorry to divert your thread. Interesting that you can mount it inside the case, it's a lot smaller than I thought it was based on the image. I guess I'll ping Manabu about his adapter to see what he has to say. I am not sure if he'll take me seriously since I have not bought anything from him after asking about some of his other items.

 

[tt]

I mailed Manabu and he responded saying that it would be a few weeks to resolve an issue at the factory. He told me he would let me know when the problem has been resolved. Maybe there's some logistical issue he is having. Given his long-standing reputation, I wouldn't worry if you already placed an order despite the annoyance of a long delay in the shipment.

 

[JDW]

Manabu Sakai is your "typical Japanese" when it comes to not providing specifics. One of my biggest headaches when I first came to Japan was that very cultural difference. Even their language centers around that -- they hardly ever say "I" or "you" but just structure the sentence such that those things are "implied."

Anyway, as I wrote in my reply on Vintage Macs, I believe it could be a chip sourcing issue. My own company manufactures electronic devices in Taiwan and China, so we know this to be true. The bad economy has bankrupt many companies. As a result, a key component could have been EOL'd or the manufacturer of the chip may have ceased operations entirely. If that happened a few months ago, even their distributors may have run dry of stock of the needed chip. In such a case, they would need to find a pin-to-pin compatible chip with basically the same specs as the one they can no longer buy. And if they cannot do that, they would need to find another chip and then change the PCB to accommodate it. Changes to the PCB takes time, especially because you need to build a sample and then extensively test and debug that sample before mass producing it. Then once you've found your replacement chip, assuming it is not a chip dealers stock, you could be forced to wait 8 weeks while the manufacturer schedules a build for you.

Again, this is what my company has had to go through over the past year (we are based in Japan too), and I know it is a very real problem. If Manabu Sakai would just give those specifics though, I think it would work to make buyers and potential buyers a bit more patient if not understanding. But just saying "wait a few more weeks" only leaves one to wonder about the real problem and wonder if Sakai has the ability to solve that problem on his own. It's too bad too because the product Sakai is selling is built for the SE/30, and he will guarantee it to work, and he even puts up a performance chart for would-be buyers -- very much unlike the PCD-50B device being discussed in this thread.

 

[tt]

I wonder if anyone else has encountered issues with constant bus errors being thrown when writing (including copying within the device) to a CF card in a PCMCIA-to-CF adapter in a PCD-50B SCSI card reader?

So you have to use a PCMCIA adapter as well? Does it not work if you use the CF slot directly?

 

[theodric]

The PCD-50B is a LUN-based device - each card reader appears as a separate LUN - and due to limitations in the SE/30's or System 6/7's SCSI implementation, it's only able to see the first unit in the device, the PCMCIA reader. Inserting a card into the CF slot causes the SE/30 to lose its mind.

 

[jasonbuchwald]

Hello all...just thought I would throw my two cents in...I also ordered the Aztec monster nearly 2 months ago...and just got an email that is was shipped (of course, the tracking number that was provided does not show the item even exists, but it may just be too early in tracking to show in the system).

As I am planning on placing it in my SE/30, I will be happy to post if/once I get it.

I might need some tips on jumper settings...we shall see!

Jason

 

[JDW]

Jason, was it shipped by EMS? If so, it should appear immediately in the Japan Post database, unless you are tracking it via USPS. Here is the Japan Post tracking page for EMS:

http://www.post.japanpost.jp/int/ems/index_en.html

I look forward to hearing your report. Please post some photos if you can too.

Thanks.

 

[theodric]

I wonder if it was some sort of pre-generated tracking number similar to what the UPS website creates. In any event, I've received the same e-mail, and my shipment is indeed in the system.

Tracking number: EJ078980535JP

Date: Oct 3 17:22

Status: Posting/Collection

Location: KANAZAWA Branch, Ishikawa prefecture

 

[jasonbuchwald]

Yup, it now appears in the database- it's on its way.

I have a few pet projects- I have two se/30's (one literally fizzled out a few days ago, smelled smoke), and two color classics. One color classic had the micromac screen mod, with a power mystic upgrade (performa 575 motherboard with 601 100mhz powercard). The other classic has a lc 575 MB too, but no screen mod and only running os 7.1 This mystic though has a 10gb 68 pin newer scsi drive with a 68 pin to 50 pin adaptor- it is partioned into 2 gb or smaller segments and works well.

So...not sure where I will use the new adaptor...but leaning towards putting it in the SE/30 (the one that works well has been upgraded to 128 MB memory and has the asante ethernet card).

We shall see!

 

[Udo.Keller]

Guys,

this is just to let you know that my AztecMonsters finally have made it through customs. To avoid hitchhiking this thread, I'll start a new one.

 

[theodric]

So just to wrap this up, it looks like I get bus errors in general wherever flash media are involved-- CFs in the AztecMonster, CF connected with adapter to an R-IDSC-E/R, and SD connected with bridge board to an R-IDSC-E/R. What doesn't give me bus errors are MicroDrives attached to either of those two. Nuking the contents of the flash disk and reinitialising it does seem to keep the bus errors at bay for a boot or two, but they always return. It's extremely frustrating since evidently a great number of people run their SE/30s from CF with no such trouble, while I can only use storage that spins.

I had a potentially-related error with a Soekris (open-platform router) box loaded with OpenBSD. If you did a hard poweroff after a crash when booting from CF, the system would consistently and repeatably fail to boot afterward until it was PXE booted into a skeleton OS and the CF's volumes fscked manually. With a MicroDrive in the CF slot (and an extra IDE-SATA bridge plugged into the HDD IDE interface to slow down bus polling enough to give the MicroDrive time to init and be recognised by the BIOS) the system would consistently and repeatably boot and execute the expected auto-fsck, then complete its init and come online.

I conclude that CF doesn't handle errors elegantly and isn't suitable for my application. I'm sick of this issue, and I'm just going to use MicroDrives, since they work. Feel free to correct/educate/flame me.