PowerBook 3400c Solid State Drive

[AichEss]

In a bit of experimentation I have been trying various SSD schemes in my PB 3400c.  

Compact Flash cards in the HD spot with a generic Asian CF-to-IDE adapter work just fine as do CF cards in a proper PCMCIA adapter for that card slot.

I have not been successful with an mSATA SSD in a generic Asian mSATA-to-IDE adapter. It is totally odd: the 'Book will recognize the drive, initialize it and readily install an OS on it. But it will not go past "Happy Mac" when attempting to start up from the drive. When I put that drive in a Pismo with the 3400c OS install it will start up just fine. Going the other way - doing the OS install in the Pismo and moving the drive to the 3400c gets just to "Happy Mac" again.

What is missing here?

AichEss

 

[Byrd]

It's likely related to what ATA standard the 3400c and Pismo support, and backwards compatibility of the mSATA drive and/or adapter. I'd try another cheap adapter. In other news, I didn't know a mSATA to IDE adapter existed! This is a perfect solution for many late model PowerBooks.

 

[Elfen]

Great news.

Like Byrd said, its a compatibility issue. Have you tried it on an older machine like a 1400?

 

[AichEss]

Trying to figure out ATA compatabilities

A drive out of the 3400c is a 2 GB Travelstar DCRA-22160. The specs say it is ATA2 Fast/Enhanced with an external data transfer rate = 16.6 MB/sec

A drive out of the Pismo is a 6 GB Travelstar DARA-20600. The specs say it is ATA/66 with an external data transfer rate = 161 Mb/sec. (/8)(?) = 20 MB/sec

As I understand it SATA = 150 MB/sec; SATA II = 300 MB/sec; SATA III = 600 MB/sec external data transfer rates. One of the SATA drives for which I can find a spec sheet has - stated - "ATA modes supported - Ultra DMA mode 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5". Aren't those numbers comparable with the ATA numbers?

Are these numbers correct enough to start with?

I think the mSATA drives are great where they will work. Vis-a-vis a Compact Flash card they are less costly, seem faster, and are, really, more robust, industrial-type gear.

Wading thru' the drive/adapter swamp on eBay is a real adventure. Basically (and I think this is how it works)  the drives come with either a 3.3V or 5V power requirement and apparently most manufacturers make both. Some of the manufacturers mention this, some don't. Some write it on the drive label, many don't. Except for the newest issues data sheets are hard to come by. None of the sellers do.

The adapter marketers mostly don't specify the voltage supplied to the drive or even have a clue that it might be important. When they do mention 5V it can just as well be for the IDE interface (as in, well, DUH). On eBay you wade through page after page of identical pictures with meaningless little quirks in the titles trying to catch the attention of the search bots, not to inform real people. Once in a while, in English-As-A-Second-Language, there's enough  different in the presentation to warrant a closer look and, for 3 or 4 $, order one to match your drive.

End of rant. Thanks for the suggestions, I'll just keep flailing along.

 

[raoulduke]

So you probably want an ATA-6 drive unless someone can correct me there. I had a similar problem.

 

[TheWhiteFalcon]

I couldn't get a ZIF PATA - mSATA adapter to work on my MBA.

 

[Bunsen]

What size is your SATA drive?  There's a limit of ~128GB on the older Macs.

 

[AichEss]

What size is your SATA drive?  There's a limit of ~128GB on the older Macs.

I've tried 32 GB & 64 GB drives so far, either whole or partitioned to 4 GB for the OS 9.1 install. The 64 is SATA III! Just got a new adapter to try; I'll let you know how it goes.

In the Mac start-up sequence, what needs to happen after the "Happy Mac" appears; what does the computer do or look for next?

 

[AichEss]

Still no joy.

Found the startup sequence in the TIL. Vis
-----
Step 5: System File Is Found and Opens
When a valid System file is located, the System file, and any ROM updates are loaded into the system heap. Other managers are initialized. If this step is successfully completed, then the "happy Macintosh" icon is replaced by the "Welcome to Mac OS" window.

If the computer stops responding, or restarts unexpectedly during this step, suspect a missing or unusable System file. You may need to reinstall the system software.
-----
Ah, so. But that is what we are doing, no? Therefore we do it again. And check. Reinstalled OS 9.1 on the SSD. This time, from the install CD ran Disk First Aid on the install with the result "Test Failed. Problem: Keys out of order 4, 134" and then it froze. After several similar results, took the drive back to the Pismo. Installed the OS there and ran Disk First Aid for a "No problems found" report. Took that install back to the 3400 and ran Disk First Aid on it. Result: "Test Failed. Problem: Keys out of order (something, something)"

Analyzing an "unusable System file" to put the keys in order is way above my pay grade so I'm open to suggestions that don't include a hammer. Of course there's the other issue; how do the keys get out of order?

 

[TheDoctor]

I suspect this is the problem.

If you are installing Mac OS 9.1 on a PowerBook 3400 running Mac OS 9.04, you must perform the installation without updating your hard disk drivers or your computer may stop responding during installation. To prevent the Installer from updating your hard disk drivers, click Options in the Install Software panel of the Mac OS 9.1 Installer and deselect the option to update your hard disk drivers.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT1835

 

[Byrd]

Good pick up, TheDoctor - you might be on to something  Hope you get there AichEss.

 

[AichEss]

Thanks TheDoctor, thanks Byrd

Took another tack. Partitioned the drive to less than 2 GB and tried an install of OS 7.6 from the original CD that came with the 3400c. Still no joy. Next step maybe will be to try to find an mSATA-to-IDE adapter different from the eBay generics.
 

Oh, well.

 

[TheDoctor]

Thanks TheDoctor, thanks Byrd

Took another tack. Partitioned the drive to less than 2 GB and tried an install of OS 7.6 from the original CD that came with the 3400c. Still no joy. Next step maybe will be to try to find an mSATA-to-IDE adapter different from the eBay generics.

Oh, well.

At this point, I wonder what would happen if you put the SSD in a multibay enclosure.

 

[AichEss]

At this point, I wonder what would happen if you put the SSD in a multibay enclosure.

What am I trying to accomplish if I do this?

 

[TheDoctor]

What am I trying to accomplish if I do this?

I'm wondering if there might be something wrong with the main ATA controller or cable be it a fault or incomplete implementation of the spec.