Trying SSDs on Performa 6400, ongoing struggle...

[Moloko]

Hello fellow PPC-Users,

here some some, maybe interesting SSD-tests I’ve done with my Performa / Power PC 6400.

OS 7.5.3 and harddisk setup 1.8.1

1. CF Card / IDE adapter (ASIN:B0026OYEEQ ) and 2 GB CF Card „fixed disk“ from Swissbit SFCF2048H3BK2SA-C-D0-513-STD(ASIN: B07QJXCDBR )
works without any problem

2. SATA/IDE adapter with a JM 20330 Chip (ASIN:B0041LCTGW )
Intenso 120 GB (2,5“ SSD High, TLC)
Intenso 128 GB (2,5“ SSD TOP, MLC)
Toshiba 320GB (HDD, 2,5“ MQ01ABD032))

Harddisk setup sees the disk, formats it, system can be installed, it reboots to the welcome screen but then fails with system error 3 (illegal or irregular error/instruction) I can access the harddisk, when booted from CD, and erase and create files.

I have the complete datasheet for the JM203390 chip and it seems it is the only IDE/SATA bridge chip which is capable of doing ATA-2. I have also tested other adapters which all do not work (PPC-Mac does not boot or collapses even the SCSI-Bus; e.g. Startech IDE2SAT2 (A1062-00D) ASIN: B00EOJNGC2 .
The adapters themself work. I have tested them with my iMac and an USB to IDE adapter.

Someone got any idea what the problem is? Is 7.5.3 very picky? May MacOS 8 or 9 be the solution?
I am going to try and test a JM20330 to mSata with a dogfish mSata 32 GB SSD probably next week.

thanks!

Have a great day!

Moloko

(ASIN: Amazon Standard Identification Number)

 

[Phipli]

I use a SATA SSD in mine, from a PCI USB/FW/SATA combo card. You need to apply a NVRAM patch to get it to work, so worth keeping another small SCSI or IDE disk in the machine to re-apply the patch after the battery is removed or PRAM is zapped.

The Great Gazelle PCI Hack Thread, Part 2

Yeah, there was a bug in my emulation code so I was wrong about OF 1.0.5 not probing a nested bridge. But I still see a limit: it won't probe a doubly nested bridge. FF831B60: /bandit@F2000000 FF83F048: /pci-bridge@E FF83FCB0: /pci-bridge@0 FF8408F0: /pci-bridge@0 FF841558...

68kmla.org

@macuserman will be interested with your experiments for his 5400 / 5500.

Someone got any idea what the problem is? Is 7.5.3 very picky? May MacOS 8 or 9 be the solution?

I believe the issue is on the hardware/firmware side. The 6400/5400/6500/5500/TAM are (alongside the Beige G3) some of the most picky about what devices the do and don't work with. It's most likely the actual IDE controller, which only supports a limited number of IDE standards. Others have a better understanding of this than me.

 

[MacKilRoy]

Could there be a limitation here like with 2GB boot partition, or 8GB or the first 8GB of a drive, type thing?

 

[Phipli]

Could there be a limitation here like with 2GB boot partition, or 8GB or the first 8GB of a drive, type thing?

I don't believe so. The older Q630 can handle at least a 40GB disk, and probably up to 120GB. I think the 6400 IDE is a descendant of that controller.

 

[Moloko]

It's most likely the actual IDE controller, which only supports a limited number of IDE standards. Others have a better understanding of this than me.

I got my hands on the actual datasheet of the original harddsik which states that the HDD is IDE/ATA4, 16,6 MB/s, PIO4. The Adapter itself (JM20330) is working as harddisk setup sees the SDD and I can also write and delete files. It just won't boot to the end.

Could there be a limitation here like with 2GB boot partition, or 8GB or the first 8GB of a drive, type thing?

I know of this "problem" but I formated all 3 drives as 1 Volume with 2 GB just to be sure.

Could this be due to a missing PRAM battery? If yes, then why does the CF card work?

 

[LaPorta]

Easiest thing is get a cheap ATA to SD adapter. They work perfectly with no issue.

 

[Moloko]

Easiest thing is get a cheap ATA to SD adapter. They work perfectly with no issue.

Yes. I have a CF-Card working aithout any problem. But I am wondering where in the booting process/sequenze the Mac crashes.

 

[Daniël]

I use a SATA SSD in mine, from a PCI USB/FW/SATA combo card. You need to apply a NVRAM patch to get it to work, so worth keeping another small SCSI or IDE disk in the machine to re-apply the patch after the battery is removed or PRAM is zapped.

I would suggest this as well. A quality SATA SSD is going to perform better with a SiI3112 card than an SATA -> IDE adapter, and is thus the best option for a later PPC Mac. It's also not inheriting IDE controller limits, nor any bugs from protocol conversion, which is nice. If the USB/FW is not necessary for your needs, a bare SiI3112 card can be bought fairly affordably. Flash it with Dosdude1's ROM and you'd be good to go:

Silicon Image SIL3112 Flashing: Easier Way Using flashrom

I have a huge update for you all. After many hours of reverse engineering, I was able to SUCCESSFULLY PATCH that SeriTek 1S2 ROM for the SIl3112 cards, allowing it to work with ANY 512K EEPROM! It functions just as it would with a "supported" EEPROM, working with and booting both OS X and OS9...

68kmla.org

 

[macuserman]

@Moloko I went through a similar set of struggles with my 5500, you might find the record of my saga to be an interesting read. https://68kmla.org/bb/index.php?threads/ssd-solution-for-5500.43954/#post-480405

 

[Moloko]

I would suggest this as well. A quality SATA SSD is going to perform better with a SiI3112 card than an SATA -> IDE adapter

I can remember that I might have a SIL SATA card somewhere in storage......

@Moloko I went through a similar set of struggles with my 5500

I started this journey because my harddisk might be failing. I have a CF Card working so there is no need for immidiate solutions. In the worst case I can adapt a USCSI 160/320 to the Performa.

But I am really wondering where in the boot process the initialisation fails. I get happy Mac, welcome screen and then da bomb. The adapter with the JM20330 is able to convert on the hardware level fine (assuming the datasheet is correct.........).
And I have got the technical data from the original harddisk: 16.6 MB/s, PIO4 (ATA4, so there might be UDMA availible).

Maybe I hook up the scope if I can't get further.

 

[macuserman]

@Moloko if you read my thread I did eventually find a ide/sata solution but I was never able to get the style of adapter you are trying to work. That adapter that you have for me only has worked on my g4 machines.

 

[Moloko]

@macuserman

I've read your thread. I have ordered the same adapter a few days ago. It may be delivered today.

As I said. I just wonder where in the boot process the initialising fails. It might be a SATA side problem not neccessarily a IDE problem.
Maybe lots of companies don't care about standards anymmore....won't be surprised at all. Some companies don't even release full fletched datasheets anymore.

 

[Moloko]

Hello,

kind of success? I have now tested the mSATA to IDE Converter with a dogfisch 32GB mSATA and it works, boots BUT I get random errorr like 1, 10 or 11 and a flickering desktop screen and the machine freezes. But those errors are not reproducable. In general I have to turn off system extensions and it seems to work fine. I now try to find out, which extension causes the problem or maybe switch over to 7.6.x for tests.
it is definitly NOT the 54xx/64xx upgrade extension.

I have also find out that the mSATA adapter uses the JM20330 differently than the smaller IDE/SATA adaptors. It looks like some pins are pulled together on the mSATA/IDE adapter while on the SATA/IDE board they are connected via resistors to wherever. These are the pins which define the ATA speed. It seems I have to invest in simple microscope.

 

[MrFahrenheit]

Screen flickering and system errors? I don’t think that’s related to the storage device, but I could be wrong.

How much RAM is installed in your 6400 and have you recapped the motherboard yet? Error 10 seems to indicate a lack of RAM or related to memory from what I’ve found on Google.

 

[Moloko]

Hi,

no I have around 104 MB of RAM. No recapping neccessary. This machine worked without any problem. And the caps look all fine.
I just play around with SDD's. So far the CF-Card version works best. No problems, and fast enough.

To me it seems more like the bus is oversaturrated because I also get error 1 (bus error) every now and then. Only when booting I might add.

 

[Phipli]

it is definitly NOT the 54xx/64xx upgrade extension

Is this the patch installer that used to be on system installer disks? I know there was some kind of fix for something, but I don't have a 5400/6400 so have never run the installer.

 

[LaPorta]

Could the RAM itself be the issue? Running without extensions would decrease initial RAM usage, and you may not be addressing the damaged RAM, causing the error to not appear.

 

[MrFahrenheit]

What about disabling virtual memory?

 

[Moloko]

Could the RAM itself be the issue?

Good call and checked, and nope. Unless the onboard memory is bad. And as I said before I have no problem at all with the CF card.

What about disabling virtual memory?

I don't use virtual memory

Maybe the problem is with the IDE44 to IDE 40 Adapter.....ordered some additional ones just to be sure....

 

[Moloko]

So far it looks like this:

ASIN​	Product​	Prucut tyoe​	Chipset Manufacturer​	Chipset Name​	Works?​	​
B0026OYEEQ​	Startech IDE2CF​	IDE / CF Adapter​	No Chipset​	--​	YES​	​
B07QJXCDBR​	Swissbit CF Card 2 GB fixed​	CF Card​	?​	?​	YES​	​
B00ELC8GFO​	DELOCK 62495​	IDE / mSATA Adapter​	Marvell​	88SA8052-NNC2​	NO​	Harddsik setup does not recognize​
B00EOJNGC2​	StarTech IDE2SAT2​	IDE / SATA Adapter​	Marvell​	88SA8052-NNC2​	NO​	chime, black screen​
B09GPGFLWB​	MO3C​	IDE / SATA Adapter​	?​	B77AS0041​	NO​	Harddsik setup does not recognize​
B0041LCTGW​	SATA2IDE44VAO​	IDE / SATA Adapter​	Jmicron​	JM20330​	NO​	Harddsik setup does not recognize​
B07476J7NK​	EVB-002-3​	IDE / SATA Adapter​	Jmicron​	JM20330​	NO​	chine, welcome, system error 3​
‎B083LXPF91​	N-1801​	IDE / mSATA Adapter​	Jmicron​	JM20330​	NO​	chine, welcome, system error 3. Without system extension: startup, everthing okay. But not stable sometimes starts up with errors 1, 10 and 11​

So, now I will test the N-1801 with 7.6 and 8.6.

The funny thing: although the JM20330 is used by multiple manufacturers and they only seem to adopt the application note schematic, it has different outcomes.....