Power Macintosh G3 Minitower Upgrades

[Brett B.]

I have both a flashed Radeon 9200 and a Radeon 7000 Mac Edition.  IMO the 7000 is the superior card right out of the box because it's better supported.  My 9200 has always had weird quirks with the drivers and whatnot, and it's not much faster, if at all even though it's got 4x more memory.

 

[trag]

Oddities


Early Beige G3s could not support slave drives, as these machines (generally) had Rev. 1 motherboards and Rev. A ROMs.

• Rev. 1: $77D.40F2
  
• Rev. 2: $77D.45F1
  
• Rev. 3: $77D.45F2
  

Because of its issues, we consider the Beige G3 with a Rev. 1 motherboard a Limited Mac.

I just wanted to note that the limitation of no slave drives is an artifact of the Rev. A ROM and not the Rev. 1 motherboard.   If you put a Rev. B or Rev. C ROM in a Rev. 1 motherboard, you'll get slave support.    ROM is on a 168 pin DIMM module.

There were also a few G3s that could not address more than, oh, I can't remember any more.  The normal maximum memory in a Beige G3 is 768MB, 3 X 256MB.     Some of them had a flaw where they would not address more than some smaller number...   Either 384 or 512MB.    Pretty rare, as I have not seen any reports of people with these machine in many years, and I think Apple had a replacement program for the victims at the time.

I'm pretty certain the problem in those machines was also the ROM module -- in this case, not the ROM code on the chips, but the ROM module wiring.   There's one pin that's wired a certain way on older, pre-Beige models (that physical module was used for years), which, if wired that way on the Beige limits the memory for some reason.   

I surmise it was a "feature" Apple put on the logic board for some marketing reason, then decided not to use.

 

[NJRoadfan]

The hard drive limit is 8.4GB, complete nonsense on Apple's part since it was a PC BIOS Int 13h software limitation, not a ATA spec limitation.

 

[Unknown_K]

Apple did sell SCSI cards to beige G3 power users at a major overcharge so maybe they limited the IDE bus for a reason.

 

[ArmorAlley]

At least until the B&W G3, I was under the impression that Apple regarded SCSI for serious use and IDE for consumer/education use (that is, not serious...). IDE was cheaper and inferior to SCSI.

Now whether this was a deliberate policy or down to incompetence/poor planning/lack of resources, I don't know. The mid-1990s was not a happy time for Apple employees.

 

[Unknown_K]

I think the server version of the Beige G3 MT had SCSI standard.

 

[Brett B.]

I would offer an educated guess that all server variants had standard SCSI PCI cards AND 10/100 ethernet cards - every one I've seen did.  They also had factory 72 pin SCSI hard drives.

 

[Dimitris1980]

Today I bought an ATI Radeon 7000 Mac Edition 32mb ram,  used complete with box and drivers. I will have it probably in the middle of December. The box says that it needs at least Mac OS 9. I would like to ask how is this card going to work on Mac OS 8.1. I have two partitions on my hard drive,  the one has Mac OS 8.1 installed and the other one Mac OS 9.2.2. Will Mac OS 8.1 recognize it? 

 

[trag]

I know I got the R7000 working under 8.5 or 8.6.   I had to hand install some extensions, IIRC.    The card works fine under 7.6.1 but one may not be able to load all the drivers to enable acceleration.

 

[trag]

I put the contents of the CDROM I used to ship with hacked R7000 cards in my web space.   Has some rudimentary instructions for using the card with 8.6.

https://www.prismnet.com/~trag/R7000/ATI R7000 Parts/

 

[Dimitris1980]

Today the Ati Radeon 7000 Mac Edition 32mb ram delivered to my home. I connected it and It is great. I have also connected a dvd drive pulled from a Pentium III and also an ide 120gb hard drive bought some years ago from eBay. The G3 beige has also connected from the previous user  an Ethernet card and a usb card. The machine feels great and is really responsive. Next step is to install 768mb ram  (now it has 256mb) and maybe a sonnet g4 accelerator. Also i have a Roland MT32 device connected via the Macman Midi Interface and It plays great with some Sierra On Line games that support it.

 

[Dimitris1980]

I want to replace the power supply of my powermac minitower. I have never ever changed power supply, i read the manual and it says somewhere that you have to release the cables from the tie wraps. Question is, is there a way to do that without cutting the tie wraps or i have to cut them and and then use ones?

 

[Paralel]

No way to undo a tie wrap without cutting them, unless they are the velcro type (and I have no doubt the ones you are talking about are the plastic type). They are intended for "Once-And-Done" use.

 

[Dimitris1980]

Yes they are the plastic type. So i guess i have to cut them and replace them with new. The one seems a little difficult because it is secured on the internal chassis.

 

[mraroid]

 So i checked my basement and i found that this mac is a power macintosh G3 minitower.

Is it a Blue & White tower or the Beige tower?  I found a nice looking Beige in a thrift shop once and regreat not buying it.  It looked fun to work on and upgrade. Can you find parts in your country?

mraroid

 

[Dimitris1980]

It is the power macintosh g3 beige minitower. It is very difficult to find parts in Greece and generally Macintosh stuff from the 80s and 90s. 

 

[mraroid]

In the old days, before tie wraps, people used waxed string to bundle cables.  It is now a lost art.  The more cables to lace up, the more art.  I have take old audio equipment apart and found lovely lacing of cables inside where the end user would never have see. People who did this had pride in them selves, and pride in the work they did.  You do not necessarily need to use waxed string if you can not find it.  You can dress your wiring with string so it looks nice with out cable ties.
 
One 'ol timer told me he hated cable ties.  He said that after the cable tie is used, and the end cut off, it leaves something sharp on the tie wrap.  Sticking your hands into a bundle of waxes string cables was smooth and you never cut your self he told me.. 
 
Just a suggestion.  Take your time and do a nice job.
 
mraroid

 

[Paralel]

Wow, that is so not something I would ever do...

 

[CC_333]

Neat!

I have an old Ampex reel-to-reel tape machine I might do this on when I get around to recapping it, for authenticity (it's pretty simple, though, so it might be superfluous).

I'll probably just use plain string, though.

c

 

[Dimitris1980]

Well, i changed the power supply with spare used one and nothing happened. I do not even hear the startup sound. The machine is now at the basement. There are also some internal parts missing (like the base for the hard drive, i had the hard drive connected in the air). The good news is that i found another Power Macintosh G3 in a great appearance. I tried it with the seller and the machine wasn't showing anything.  I took the risk and i bought it. I took out all the old ram sticks and i installed 1 pc of new ram stick that i had bought recently from OWC and the computer worked. It has G3 at 300mhz, 256mb ram, apple AV personality card, usb/firewire card. I connected also 120gb hard drive, the ATI Radeon 7000 32mb Mac Edition and the Roland MT32. Everything work great, the machine is in great condition. Soon i will buy two more ram sticks in order to have 768mb full ram. And of course if i ever find a sonnet g4 accelerator in a good price, i would try to get it.

Question: I do not know which is faster? My Imac G3 (500mhz, 1gb ram, 16mb ATI video card) or my Power Macintosh G3 (300mhz, 256mb-soon to be 768mb, 32mb ATI Radeon 7000)