Dimitris1980
Well-known member
I am thinking of buying a sonnet g3 500 Mhz and a 8100 HPV card for my mac performa 6116. Do i need any adapters for the connection? Will i see a big difference at the speed? 
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Performa 6116 with Sonnet Crescendo G3 500Mhz and 8100 HPV
- Thread starter Dimitris1980
- Start date
As the owner of a retired 6100 running a NewerTech 330mhz G3 with a Power Computing HPV card, you will definitely notice a big jump in speed. In the 6100, the HPV card does connect directly to the CPU upgrade card without the need for the Sonnet Video Adapter. However, you do need the right angle bracket which helps support the cpu and hpv cards (more about that below).
There are a few other things to consider. The 8100 HPV card has a standard mac video connector so if you are using a vga monitor you will need an adapter. I like the old Griffin PnP adapter like this one. If you can find one, the HPV card that came with the Power Computing models are better. They are identical to the 8100 HPV card expect that in addition to the mac connector it also has a vga connector which eliminates the need for an adapter.
The max resolution supported by the HPV card is only about 1152x870 so you wont be able to run most newer large LCD monitors at their native resolution. Thus, you will limited to small screen LCD monitors. As a result, you may be better off going with an old style CRT monitor.
Also, the motherboard bus speed may limit the max speed of the cpu upgrade to below 500mhz, however I am not sure about this. If I remember correctly all the Performa models had 30mhz bus logicboards not the later 33mhz bus logicboards. The Sonnet site is a little vague as to what speed the cpu runs other than saying it provides up to a 16X increase in speed. This would seem to imply that on the 30mhz bus motherboard, the cpu upgrade will only run at 480mhz max. On a 33mhz motherboard, it appears the upgrade must be using a 15X multiplier. Thus, to squeeze out the last few mhz of cpu speed, you may also need to get a 33mhz logicboard.
Lastly, I have never liked the design of the Sonnet upgrade as it doesn't fit correctly in the right angle bracket. The only thing holding it in the bracket is a single screw that supports the HPV card. As a result, the Sonnet card is not really screwed onto the bracket and the bracket lacks support and just sort of flops around. The lack of connection between the bracket and cpu card also makes it more difficult to remove the card from the pds slot once installed. In some ways, I think it may be better to just not use the right angle bracket with the sonnet card. If so, I would recommend sticking a piece of plastic sheet to the top of the inside case to protect the HPV card from coming in contact with the metal shielding (similiar to the piece of plastic that is stuck to the top of right angle bracket). Even then I would be tempted to say to not use a heavy crt monitor on top of the 6100 but a light weight LCD would probably be OK. However, don't let this last point turn you off from getting the Sonnet card.
There are a few other things to consider. The 8100 HPV card has a standard mac video connector so if you are using a vga monitor you will need an adapter. I like the old Griffin PnP adapter like this one. If you can find one, the HPV card that came with the Power Computing models are better. They are identical to the 8100 HPV card expect that in addition to the mac connector it also has a vga connector which eliminates the need for an adapter.
The max resolution supported by the HPV card is only about 1152x870 so you wont be able to run most newer large LCD monitors at their native resolution. Thus, you will limited to small screen LCD monitors. As a result, you may be better off going with an old style CRT monitor.
Also, the motherboard bus speed may limit the max speed of the cpu upgrade to below 500mhz, however I am not sure about this. If I remember correctly all the Performa models had 30mhz bus logicboards not the later 33mhz bus logicboards. The Sonnet site is a little vague as to what speed the cpu runs other than saying it provides up to a 16X increase in speed. This would seem to imply that on the 30mhz bus motherboard, the cpu upgrade will only run at 480mhz max. On a 33mhz motherboard, it appears the upgrade must be using a 15X multiplier. Thus, to squeeze out the last few mhz of cpu speed, you may also need to get a 33mhz logicboard.
Lastly, I have never liked the design of the Sonnet upgrade as it doesn't fit correctly in the right angle bracket. The only thing holding it in the bracket is a single screw that supports the HPV card. As a result, the Sonnet card is not really screwed onto the bracket and the bracket lacks support and just sort of flops around. The lack of connection between the bracket and cpu card also makes it more difficult to remove the card from the pds slot once installed. In some ways, I think it may be better to just not use the right angle bracket with the sonnet card. If so, I would recommend sticking a piece of plastic sheet to the top of the inside case to protect the HPV card from coming in contact with the metal shielding (similiar to the piece of plastic that is stuck to the top of right angle bracket). Even then I would be tempted to say to not use a heavy crt monitor on top of the 6100 but a light weight LCD would probably be OK. However, don't let this last point turn you off from getting the Sonnet card.
Last edited by a moderator:
I just remembered that it is possible to overclock these older Sonnet cpu ugrades using a utility called Sonnet Clocker. See http://www.zone6400.com/Sonnet_Clocker.html for more info. This may or may not be a way to get the card to run at its full rated speed on a 30mhz logicboard to avoid having to upgrade to a 33mhz logicboard.
Bunsen
Admin-Witchfinder-General
That is an interesting find - thanks for linking it.
I'm not sure that 20MHz out of 500 is worth worrying about, but IIRC, there were other tweaks made to the 6100/66 board apart from just speed, that improved it in some way. Sorry for the vagueness. No doubt kan.org/6100 has more info.
I'm not sure that 20MHz out of 500 is worth worrying about, but IIRC, there were other tweaks made to the 6100/66 board apart from just speed, that improved it in some way. Sorry for the vagueness. No doubt kan.org/6100 has more info.
Not sure if this matters anymore, but Sonnet's page for the Crescendo/Nubus G2 for 6100 and others (http://www.sonnettech.com/product/crescendo_nubus.html) claims that it has a built in 66MHz bus on the card allowing full 500MHz operation.
Dimitris1980
Well-known member
I found in ebay a sonnet nubus g4 at 360mhz. Is it faster that sonnet crescendo g3 at 500mhz? I saw that you can install it in performa 6116.
BTW, at the time of this post, Sonnet still has stock of the G3/400 upgrade for NuBus machines. If you go to the "Special Deals" link, and not to the "Processor Upgrade Cards" link then the G3/400/NuBus is $39.95 instead of $49.95.
They also have the PDS pass-through adapter for the 7100 and 8100 for $20 which is quite a deal compared to the $100 it originally sold for.
They also have the PDS pass-through adapter for the 7100 and 8100 for $20 which is quite a deal compared to the $100 it originally sold for.
Dimitris1980
Well-known member
I have bought and installed a sonnet nubus g3 at 500 mhz card (66 usd including shipping - i live in Athens,Greece). It is great. The computer is a lot faster now. I have also a "Power Mac 6100 7100 8100 2MB PDS Video Card" but i don't know yet how to install-connect it .
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Dimitris1980
Well-known member
Thank you for one more time Bunsen. I connected the video card and now i can go up to 1024x768. What other benefits do i have? more speed at games?
Bunsen
Admin-Witchfinder-General
Yes, and at everything else that uses the screen. In particular I noticed a big improvement in web browsing.
If your card has two empty SIMM sockets, you can increase the VRAM to 4MB, which should give you access to higher resolutions and/or more colours.
Also, I don't know why I haven't mentioned this already in this thread - http://kan.org/6100 . Kan is the 6100 guru.
If your card has two empty SIMM sockets, you can increase the VRAM to 4MB, which should give you access to higher resolutions and/or more colours.
Also, I don't know why I haven't mentioned this already in this thread - http://kan.org/6100 . Kan is the 6100 guru.
Kan's site contains much wonderful information on the 6100. However, I'm pretty certain that the report he had of someone using 256MB SIMMs (520 MB total) in the 6100 was false. I.e., someone lied to Kan.
I've traced out the SIMM socket to memory controller connections in the 6100 and I just don't see any way that 256 MB SIMMs could be supported.
Properly wired 128 MB SIMMs do work, however, they must have their RAS pins paired properly. The 72 pin SIMM socket has four RAS lines. The SIMM socket in the 6100 ties these together in pairs. In other words, one set of two RAS lines is connected together. The remaining two RAS lines are connected together. If your 128 MB SIMM pairs the RAS lines in the fashion opposite to that which the 6100 logic board uses then they won't work.
So, e.g., if the 6100 pairs RAS0 with RAS2 (don't remember the actual scheme) and RAS1 with RAS3, and your SIMMs pair RAS0 with RAS1 and RAS2 with RAS3, then those SIMMs aren't going to work.
RAS0 = pin44
RAS1 = pin 45
RAS2 = pin 34
RAS3 = pin 33
The RAS pins are used to control which bank of the memory module is active for any transaction. This is how a 72 pin SIMM can have multiple banks on board despite the fact that it doesn't have any BANK Address pins.
In theory, each RAS pin could go to a separate bank of memory giving four banks on a 72 pin SIMM. However, in the 6100 pairs of RAS lines are tied together. Ipso facto, it is impossible for the 6100 to distinguish between more than two banks of memory on a 72 pin SIMM. Since each bank is limited to 64MB of capacity by the address lines and width of the module (12 X 2 address lines => 24 address bits => 16M addresses X 4 bytes wide = 64MB capacity) and there are only two banks possible, the maximum supportable SIMM in the 6100 must be 128 MB.
Dimitris1980
Well-known member
I have this problem. I have installed on my performa 6116 the sonnet nubus g3 at 500 mhz. I connect the pds video card on the sonnet nubus slots, then i connect the monitor and everything work fine. But only when the cover of the computer is not closed. When i put on the cover the computer doesn't turn on. what can i do? Sounds like either the Sonnet card or the video card is hitting the top of the enclosure
Bunsen
Admin-Witchfinder-General
Thoughts and suggestions:
First make sure the Sonnet and the video card are firmly seated in their slots.
Tape/glue some plastic onto the inside of the lid, above the Sonnet and video cards, so nothing can touch the metal sheet lining. Make it fairly strong plastic (ie, not sandwich wrap) so things can't poke through it.
Does your video card have the external thumb screws in place, that hold it steady from the rear? Does it have the metal/plastic angle bracket that screws onto and covers the video card?
First make sure the Sonnet and the video card are firmly seated in their slots.
Tape/glue some plastic onto the inside of the lid, above the Sonnet and video cards, so nothing can touch the metal sheet lining. Make it fairly strong plastic (ie, not sandwich wrap) so things can't poke through it.
Does your video card have the external thumb screws in place, that hold it steady from the rear? Does it have the metal/plastic angle bracket that screws onto and covers the video card?
Dennis Nedry
Well-known member
It is also common in old 6100s for the metal shield in the cover to sag or fall out completely. It is held on by little melted bits of plastic which by now are all brittle.
If you are installing the video card and sonnet card into a proper right angle adapter metal thing, it should prevent the lid from coming in contact with the video card, so your focus should turn to the spaces between the cards and the right angle adapter metal.
Another possibility is that your battery is dead. It will still make the startup sound either way, but will not boot. If you turn the power on-off-on, it will work with a dead battery. You may have coincidentally done this when the lid was off but not when it was on.
If you are installing the video card and sonnet card into a proper right angle adapter metal thing, it should prevent the lid from coming in contact with the video card, so your focus should turn to the spaces between the cards and the right angle adapter metal.
Another possibility is that your battery is dead. It will still make the startup sound either way, but will not boot. If you turn the power on-off-on, it will work with a dead battery. You may have coincidentally done this when the lid was off but not when it was on.
