HPV vs AV - Power Mac 8100/110

[Unknown_K]

The Radius 81/110 specs are nearly identical, but it has a full metal case.

Built like a tank and has a normal video connector.

 

[BetaC]

Built like a tank and has a normal video connector.

How dare you insult the HDI-45. Next thing you're gonna say that ADC wasn't that great an idea either.

 

[Becks79]

Looks like someone swapped all the bezels out a long time ago, they’re more yellow than the rest.

And yeah, 90s plastics across the board are pretty bad. Not just apple, although they probably have the worst reputation for it. It really depends on how well built the hardware you’re dealing with is, and apple used some really thin plastics.

From personal experience with other retro computers, "brittle" doesn't mean the same for other systems. Yes, less elasticity and tensile strength than when new, but still totally safe to handle. Not so with this system. It really needs a very gentle touch to avoid plastic bits flying everywhere.

Got a DB-15 to VGA adapter on its way in the mail. Once that arrives, I'll hook it up to a more usable monitor. Currently the only monitor I can hook it up to is an old Apple Performa Display Plus, which doesn't really do anything over 512x384 resolution (640x480 ends up being very horizontally stretched). At that point, I can start doing some more meaningful testing.

 

[Becks79]

Nice, the 110MHz Never got my hands on one. What is the bus speed? 36.7MHz?

I forgot to respond to this... Yes, it's indeed 36.7MHz bus speed. From a review in Mac World, March '95, apparently the drop in bus speed from 40MHz on the 80MHz model to 36.7MHz on the 110, means that the speed bump on the CPU doesn't help as much for performance as one would think. Since I'm not actually using the standard 601 CPU, I've been wondering about swapping the oscillator out for a 40MHz one, not because "it's necessary", but purely because of the academic interest of seeing how it would affect performance.

 

[Phipli]

I've been wondering about swapping the oscillator out for a 40MHz one, not because "it's necessary", but purely because of the academic interest of seeing how it would affect performance.

It has less impact that the magazines suggest in normal use, but where it is a small advantage is with G3 upgrades.

The 300MHz Sonnet will only run at 266MHz in a 100MHz (33MHz bus) 8100, but will run at 300MHz in an 80MHz (40MHz bus) 8100. The earlier G3 upgrades were limited to 8x the bus.

Your 110 should alllllmost do 300MHz. 8x 36.7 is... 293MHz give or take.

Nice thing with the Nubus G3s upgrades is that if you don't load the extension, they boot the stock 601. I have mine set to dual boot, one OS has the Sonnet extension, the other doesn't. By switching boot partition I can switch processor. You can also do the same with saved sets in extensions manager if you make sure it loads before the Sonnet extension.

 

[Becks79]

It has less impact that the magazines suggest in normal use, but where it is a small advantage is with G3 upgrades.

The 300MHz Sonnet will only run at 266MHz in a 100MHz (33MHz bus) 8100, but will run at 300MHz in an 80MHz (40MHz bus) 8100. The earlier G3 upgrades were limited to 8x the bus.

Your 110 should alllllmost do 300MHz. 8x 36.7 is... 293MHz give or take.

Nice thing with the Nubus G3s upgrades is that if you don't load the extension, they boot the stock 601. I have mine set to dual boot, one OS has the Sonnet extension, the other doesn't. By switching boot partition I can switch processor. You can also do the same with saved sets in extensions manager if you make sure it loads before the Sonnet extension.

I won't spend money getting a Sonnet G3 card, as I already have a Newer Tech card. I don't suppose that will allow for a dual boot setup like that as well? From what I understand, my MaxPowr won't work at all if I have my cache module installed, which means that running with the stock 601, I'd lose a fair bit of performance due to no cache... Or does the 8100 have cache on the motherboard, and only get more from the module?

 

[Phipli]

I won't spend money getting a Sonnet G3 card, as I already have a Newer Tech card. I don't suppose that will allow for a dual boot setup like that as well?

The same applies, I was just saying Sonnet because it was what I was messing with in my 8100.

From what I understand, my MaxPowr won't work at all if I have my cache module installed, which means that running with the stock 601, I'd lose a fair bit of performance due to no cache... Or does the 8100 have cache on the motherboard, and only get more from the module?

Yeah, you have to pull the cache so the 601 doesn't run quite as well as it could. But it's an extra option. Handy for compatibility, but if speed is needed, it's always going to be the G3.

 

[Becks79]

The same applies, I was just saying Sonnet because it was what I was messing with in my 8100.

Yeah, you have to pull the cache so the 601 doesn't run quite as well as it could. But it's an extra option. Handy for compatibility, but if speed is needed, it's always going to be the G3.

Ahh, cool. Then I may well try out a dual boot setup. I think I might want a setup with OS 7.5 as a tribute to the 8100 in "The Net", running without the G3, and then OS 9 with the G3. But we shall see once I get my BlueSCSI. I'm sure there will be plenty of experimentation to figure out what the hell I'm doing.
I'm also going to have to figure out a good way of moving files to the Mac once it's closed up (and no easy access to the microSD card. I'm hoping that DoubleTalk will let me access my NAS (which I've set up with old-fashioned "Samba" for my retro PCs and Amiga), which would make everything really simple.

 

[Phipli]

I'm also going to have to figure out a good way of moving files to the Mac once it's closed up (and no easy access to the microSD card. I'm hoping that DoubleTalk will let me access my NAS (which I've set up with old-fashioned "Samba" for my retro PCs and Amiga), which would make everything really simple.

I always tend to use ethernet and FTP, but am in a minority with that I think. It's laziness really - I can run an FTP server on anything, including my phone, and fetch files to the Mac. They have to have their resource forks protected though.

Otherwise, I just write CDs... Hang on one second...

Creating a Custom Bootable Classic Mac OS CD from Linux

Creating a Custom Bootable Classic Mac OS CD from Linux and possibly other operating systems, which I don’t have to hand The following is a description of the process to easily create a HFS f…

stuffandnonsense.elephantandchicken.co.uk

That's over complicated because it is custom bootable CDs, but non bootable CDs are easier, and just writing a PC style disk straight from the modern computer and transferring files in resource fork safe formats like .sit, .bin etc is the simplest.

 

[Becks79]

Ooh. Yes. My current "daily driver" PC, doesn't have an optical drive at the moment. I moved this summer, and my USB CD-writer is still packed away somewhere. My old PC, which I replaced recently DOES have an optical drive though, and I did mean to get around to installing Linux on it, so I guess this gives me an extra reason to do so.
I do think that ethernet file transfer is a more elegant solution though, so I will definitely be looking into something later. There's an Asante Nubus Ethernet card in my 8100, so I'm hoping getting it to talk to some of my other gear shouldn't be too much of a problem. Judging by what's installed on the system now, it used to belong to an advertising company. (Yes I googled the "registered to" name on the Photoshop splash screen, among other things). I really don't want to pry too much into what the previous users had/did with it, so I'll be wiping that drive soon.

 

[macuserman]

It definitely isn’t a looker though.

You talking about the Radius? I think they have some style for sure, not as classy as the 8100 but still I wouldn’t say it’s ugly.

 

[CircuitBored]

I think I might want a setup with OS 7.5 as a tribute to the 8100 in "The Net"

FWIW, I had an absolute nightmare with 7.5.X on my 8100. Every version I tried was extremely crash-happy and slow. Switching to version 8.0 fixed all of that immediately.

But we shall see once I get my BlueSCSI

If it's a BlueSCSI v1 it will not work properly with your 8100. I recently attempted to use one with mine and it was a bloody nightmare. I can't attest to the v2's compatibility so I would be interested to see your results if it works.

 

[3lectr1cPPC]

You talking about the Radius? I think they have some style for sure, not as classy as the 8100 but still I wouldn’t say it’s ugly.
View attachment 62003

Yeah, the radius. I’m sure it’s a more reliable one to own (structurally especially) than the 8100, but I’m just not a fan of the styling on it at all, just my preference.
My favorite clone looks wise is probably the Genesis MP (or the black version), followed by the S900.

 

[Phipli]

FWIW, I had an absolute nightmare with 7.5.X on my 8100. Every version I tried was extremely crash-happy and slow. Switching to version 8.0 fixed all of that immediately.

This is true, but 7.6.1 fixed the problems, no need to go all the way to 8.*. And visually 7.6.1 pretty much looks identical to 7.5.

My dad's used to crash when scrolling in 7.5.*.

 

[CircuitBored]

This is true, but 7.6.1 fixed the problems, no need to go all the way to 8.*. And visually 7.6.1 pretty much looks identical to 7.5.

My dad's used to crash when scrolling in 7.5.*.

My installer for 7.6 was corrupted so I just jumped straight to 8 for the creature comforts it brings with it. It does make sense that 7.6 is a lot better, though. I didn't previously have a machine with 8 so the 8100 now serves a nice little niche in my collection.

 

[cheesestraws]

IIRC, things like the system error handler for PPC code were significantly improved in 8.x so it's not a totally useless upgrade - but that probably doesn't matter for hobby playing.

 

[Phipli]

IIRC, things like the system error handler for PPC code were significantly improved in 8.x so it's not a totally useless upgrade - but that probably doesn't matter for hobby playing.

Yeah, early PPC OSes did basically mostly just report "there was an error "

 

[Becks79]

FWIW, I had an absolute nightmare with 7.5.X on my 8100. Every version I tried was extremely crash-happy and slow. Switching to version 8.0 fixed all of that immediately.



If it's a BlueSCSI v1 it will not work properly with your 8100. I recently attempted to use one with mine and it was a bloody nightmare. I can't attest to the v2's compatibility so I would be interested to see your results if it works.

I've ordered BlueSCSI v2. Everybody is raving about how good it is, and how well it works with basically every kind of system, so I figured I'd give it a go. Worst case, I'll grab a 68-pin to 50-pin SCSI adapter a put a more modern SCSI drive into it, although that's a last resort.

 

[volvo242gt]

7.5.5 was OK on my first 7100/80, but I did upgrade to 8.1 pretty quickly (within 3-4 months of purchase of the machine in 2000). Was nice being able to have HFS+. When I picked up my second 7100/80 (broke the screw for the case lid on the original), it came with a 3GB hard drive in the optical bay. One that had an 8.6 install on it. Transferred the files from the Micropolis 1GB drive I was using over to that drive, and used 8.6 for the rest of the time I used a 7100. Seemed to be the most stable of the OS versions I used on that generation of PowerMac machines.

 

[joshc]

I run OS 8 on a fast 68040 so it's more than fine for an 8100. You get HFS+ support, a better Finder and more software compatibility so its probably a pretty good choice for an 8100. But yeah, you will lose some performance / OS memory usage will be a bit higher.