OS X Disk Utility (OS9 Drivers option) Boot 8.6?

[rezwits]

Refresh my memory on how this won't work. (maybe)

If I load the 10.2 Install disk and use Disk Utility to partition a drive and select the Mac OS 9 Drivers option for the partition(s), will I be able to install 8.6 && Boot 8.6?  Or will this only boot OS 9?

Thanks for any help, cause this way I don't have to setup install pull apart setup install pull apart!

Laters...

 

[Elfen]

What machine are you doing this on? And why not partition and format the disk using the OS8 cd?

 

[rezwits]

I am doing it on that G3/266 I was talking about.  But I don't think I am going to be able to RAID like I want.  This is because:

I think if I setup the RAID Stripe, and then go in to OS X to setup the drives, I won't be able to boot 8.6.

But are you saying if I use Drive Setup from the 8.6 Install/Boot Disk, I can setup the Mac 10.2.x (Panther) on one of the partition (from the 8.6 Drive Setup, it's been awhile for me)?  That would be amazing!

Let me know.  Parts are on the way...

Because the fall back will be, go into Mac OS X (10.2) setup drive 1 (install blah blah)

Then setup drive 2 to with the 8.6 Disk Setup, (install blah blah blah)

I want to setup the RAID, use 10.2, use OS 9 driver option, go back to 8.6 install and put the 8.6 OS on one of the partitions from the 10.2 Disk Utili.

Just trying to save from the (pull apart, reconnect, nonsense)...Because I have to set a dip switch on the RAID card for RAID or NON-RAID mode.

Thanks elfen

 

[Elfen]

For a raid, this should be simple but it will take multiple steps.

1) Partition and Format each CF on its own OSX with Disk Utility as Mac OS Standard. Do not install the OS9 drivers as this is for OS8.

2) When done, select each volume formatted and select RAID tab. Select what RAID scheme you want and build it (RAID 0, 1, or 2). This will unify all your formatted CFs into one drive. Then select Format/Create RAID. This will make your CFs act like a singe drive now.

3) Load up OS8 CD, select the Drive/RAID, format it through "Erase Disk" function and then install the OS on it. Check the System folder and bless it (should have a Mac icon inside the Folder Icon). And there it is.

But do check if the RAID Card has OS8 driver/software which might make this easier for you to do this with.

Good luck.

 

[Cory5412]

As far as I've ever seen, Mac OS 8 and 9 can not do software RAIDing in the way that Mac OS X and many versions of Windows can.

You may need to pick up a real RAID controller or find an old software RAID utility. I believe Apple had one in the system 7 days, but I don't believe that'll actually work on Mac OS 9.

If you are booting from a SATA disk or a CF card, you shouldn't really need RAID anyway, but if your goal is, say, fastest disk for capture of video with the Wings card, I'd just go straight for SATA anyway.

 

[ArmorAlley]

FWB had RAID software called RAID Toolkit. I have a copy of it propping up other software at the moment.

 

[rezwits]

Well I am not too worried about getting the RAID to work, cause it'll just show up as a DUMB DRIVE to the mac.  I am just wondering about when I initialize.  You know the option when you go into Disk Utility in OS X?  The checkbox that says "OS 9 Drivers",  if I check that box while partitioning with Disk Utility in 10.2, will I be able to then go back and use the 8.6 disk and install the OS without re-partitioning or init.

I know I would be able to install OS 9, that's not a problem.  It's just that the check box says "OS 9 Drivers."  So when I would go back I would normally install OS 9, can I do OS 8.6 instead?  Is this, checkbox that says "OS 9 drivers" really all that particular?

I am just not sure why they would specifically say OS 9 drivers, I mean I have done the install before on my G4 Dual 1.25, you install 10.2 go back install 9.2.2, but the G4 can't go back as far as 8.6, but the G3 can.

That's all I am wondering.

Thanks guys...

 

[rezwits]

Looks like I should be alright, just need to use this Startup Disk CP:

http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1111

Cool...

 

[butterburger]

find an old software RAID utility. I believe Apple had one in the system 7 days

Proof in form of published documentation: "Apple RAID Software Administrator's Guide (for PCI-Based Workgroup Servers)" 030-8946-A. feeBay item number 291615144675

 

[rezwits]

Yeah there is FWB x.x, Apple RAID 1.5, plus the card has hardware raid.  It's all good, no.  Kinda like if you have an external enclosure, with a hardware raid setting, know what I mean.  Should be fine, next week I'll post results on all my findings.  Should be fun LOL

 

[Cory5412]

Most (but not all *cough* HP MSA20 *cough*) external enclosures were and are just dumb boxes, unless you're talking about something more like an FC shelf that had a RAID controller that bridged FC to SCSI disks.

And, a card being able to do RAID might not mean anything if you don't have the proper Mac drivers for it or you can't get to its firmware somewhere. (on the PC side of things, you often get to a RAID card during the boot process.)

 

[rezwits]

Funny story, just forget about all this rhetoric, because in the end here are the results:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271855075045?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

That card turns out is just the plain Mac CN2490.  NON-RAID version.

Which you know, what? is fine, because I know these SanDIsk have wear leveling, but in the end the safest bet is:

Install CFs in adapters, adapters in Card, install card in Machine, boot up,

format 1st channel with OS 8.6 drive setup, install 8.5 then update to 8.6

format 2nd channel with 10.2, disk utility, install 10.2 then update to 10.2.8

and don't worry about taking the machine apart and unplugging and changing a dip (that's not even there)

Because with RAID wear leveling is NOT guaranteed, I may or may not get this.  (And the same goes for Apple RAID 1.5.3 (ppc))

And taking apart and unplugging is work on the knees.

I'll just have an 8.6 on one 64GB CF, and 10.2.8 on the other 64GB CF.  (The only thing left to ponder is the OSX/8GB limit).

Some people have stated that if you use a PCI/ATA card that's bootable, you can install past the 8GB.  We'll find out,

because my memory sucks right now, I used to have a G3/266 that had a Sonnet Tempo Trio, with ATA133/USB2/FW400, that card was awesome.  But like I said I can't remember if I could get past the 8GB limit with that card.  So we'll see with this one.  Ha!

Like I said fun stuff tho...

 

[Cory5412]

The 8-gig limit applies only to the built in IDE controllers.

I've been pondering whether to put Panther on the beige or just leave that for slightly more capable hardware, and go back to OS 9 on my beige G3.

 

[trag]

OSX RAIDs will not be usable when booted from Classic OS 9 or 8. RAIDs created in Classic with software hard drive drivers such as RAIDToolkit or SoftRAID will not be available in OSX.

However, the Acard AEC-6880M will create RAIDs that are useable in both OSX and Classic. The SIIG card you reference there is a rebadged AEC-6280M which as you noted is the non RAID version. The last time I checked the 6280M was available for considerably less than that SIIG card sold for.

 

[rezwits]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ACARD-AEC-6880M-True-Hardware-RAID-Ultra-ATA-133-Adapter-for-Mac-/261286212872

That ^ is a nice card.  A little more than I wanted to spend.  But would have been nice and what would have worked.

Damn!  I am just pissed cause I totally got screwed, and I hate waiting another week sending back waiting, and spending more.

But I have a Sonnet Tempo SSD in my Mac Pro, and I used Crucial SSDs, went with RAID 0, but man after two years that thing is slowing down, something fierce.  I think it's due to the fact that I didn't get trim, wear leveling, or even garbage collection in effect while in RAID mode.  I don't want to go thru this again, after I setup, what is essentially going to be my Answering Machine/Fax Center with Apple Telecom, I do fax a little here and there still, sucks, and I hate having to print out and then fax with what I have.   It's why I am even setting this up, but I get the benefit of having an AppleTalk/IP Server Bridge for my 68k (7.6.1) and x86 (10.6. machines.

Thanks for the tip but I seriously doubt wear leveling works with Mac OS 8.6 or even 10.2, with a PCI hardware RAID, even RAID cards of today (PCIe) don't "really" support SSDs...

so..

Thanks

oh and as far Jaguar 10.2.8, I was debating about that myself, because I just don't know what, I would do with 10.2?  I mean it's like install Adobe Creative Suite 2 and look at the pretty icons?  LOL

What can you do with 10.2, it's lame.  It's bleaker than 10.4.11 which is barely browser supported.  The only thing I get is Project Builder and Developer Tools, but here's the way I see that:  Those are the old "Carbonized Days" and really making carbon applications is kinda a hassle.  I think it's best to just make 68k (for 7/8) ppc (for 8/9) ppc (for X) ppc64 (for X) x86 (for X) x64 (for X), with FAT and Universal here and there, but Carbon is just bleh, waste.  SO i really don't get anything with 10.2.8, so nah...

Like I said to look at Adobe CS2 icons...

 

[trag]

The 6880M has been in the $30 range in the past. If you want one, save a search. It's also possible that they've passed into the realm of "rare" and expensive.

 

[Cory5412]

At this point, if it's not something you're worried about performance on anyway, why not just get a single CF card, run it off the built-in IDE, and use it exclusively for OS 9?

oh and as far Jaguar 10.2.8, I was debating about that myself, because I just don't know what, I would do with 10.2?  I mean it's like install Adobe Creative Suite 2 and look at the pretty icons?  LOL

You can probably hunt down era-appropriate software. The Internet software from that time mostly won't connect to anything or render web pages properly, and all of the other software is just not exciting because it's just older versions of what you can get with a modern Mac. It's one of the reasons I don't end up doing much with old versions of OS X.

 

[rezwits]

Will I get Wear Leveling Support? if RAIDed?

Yeah I figured I am going to have one with 8.6 (Telecom) and the other I will waste 10GB and put 10.2.8 and 9.2.2, and have a triple boot.  It's only 10GB and I can still use the other 50GB for serving files...

Oh and as far as performance, there should be a big difference between running at 66MHz and 133MHz, I suppose...especially with CF(SSD) speeds.  I remember going from 66MHz to 133MHz with the Tempo Trio 10+ years ago and that was a HUGE difference.  But using CF I hoping for even more, I mean I want some performance.

But I will have 8.6, 9.2.2, and 10.2.8.  Which is fine.  Parts are here today so...

 

[CC_333]

There's different implementations of wear leveling I think.

First, there's the TRIM command, which is a function of the operating system. Seeing as it's a fairly recent thing, nothing that would run on a beige G3 will support it. I don't think there are even any third-party patches to add it (the oldest OS X that supports TRIM as far as I know is 10.6. .

Then there is the fact that many newer CF cards and SSDs have some basic wear leveling built into their onboard controllers, making them somewhat more suitable for use with operating systems that don't support TRIM.

This is my limited understanding, anyway.

c