new 6502 computer, playpower

[syntacsugar]

hi everyone

i've been learning assembly language for a few weeks, and felt most comfortable doing it on an apple // well, and emulated apple // .i dont' have any money to buy a real one..specially not on ebay collectors are grabbing them ..neways..i was on the makezine site. www.makezine.com. and there was a post there about a new 6502 computer that hooks up to your tv and uses it as a monitor..sound familiar?? although its based on the famicom computer, i just saw it and was reminded of when pc's were first introduced. the computer is dubbed the "$10 computer", and the orginization behind it is a group called playpower, which is also developing a dev kit for it. this project is also open source.

i found this really exciting since i've really been reading tons of computer history books and anything about the apple //. and just wanted to share it with everyone. below are a few links:

http://playpower.org/

http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2009/03/in_the_maker_shed_tv_computer_72_pi.html

also this is an interesting show:

http://www.archive.org/details/computerchronicles

 

[porter]

I've never really liked the 6502, it's like an 8 bit CPU going out of it's way to limit everything to 8 bits.

For a simple accumulator CPU the 6800 more closely matched my model of an elegant 8bit CPU.

But for sheer usefulness I've thought the Z80 managed to squeeze the most out of a 40pin package.

 

[syntacsugar]

hmmm don't really know much about the z80. i mainly focused on the 6502 because it was in all the machines i wanted to code for apple //, commodore 64, pc engine, and nes/snes, and even today people are still making things with it. i've seen a few diy computers using 6502 also.

http://hytherion.com/beattidp/comput/x65tools/diy6502/diy6502.htm

http://www.parallax.com/tabid/708/Default.aspx

i just posted the playpower because, it just shows that things people think are obsolete really aren't. for example game consoles get abandoned and upgraded before people can max out the hardware. but also this brings to mind questions like why don't manufacturers open up the machine once it's dead in the first place. and also it would be an easy set up for someone like myself who wanted to get into developing for a 6502 machine without having to go to boutique places and getting sometimes exspensive flash carts, or going on ebay to bid high prices on things , etc. this project also has tons of researchers and universities working on it, and tons of potential.

it's not really about the cpu at all. it's just the idea that in the age where everything is so high tech now and you can do so much with what we have, we can also do that with something thats 20+ years old. it also points out that things move in cycles, a machine comes out, dies, then gets a second life just by a bunch of people who can still see it's potential, or even just out of nostalgia.

 

[Bunsen]

VISICalc! Now you're talking!

http://playpower.org/blog/2009/03/wired-article-visicalc/

here’s a picture of Jeremy and I talking to Bob Frankston, who developed Visicalc. If you weren’t around in 1979, that’s the world’s first spreadsheet program, developed on the 6502 based Apple II. It turned the home computer into a useful business tool.
He said he’ll try to find the source code for us. That’s so awesome.

The Playpower project was cited in these forums some time ago, and launched a storm of fairly inane commentary. Don't bother searching for the thread.

Personally, I'm all for what these guys are doing.

 

[arfink]

It does look cool, but I wonder whether Nintendo won't shut them down, what with it using the Nintendo architecture and all.

 

[II2II]

It does look cool, but I wonder whether Nintendo won't shut them down, what with it using the Nintendo architecture and all.

If it's based on the NES, the patents would have expired. So they're safe unless they are violating copyright laws. That would involve a straight out copy of the system boards, and firmware (assuming the NES even has firmware).

As for the accompanying carts, as long as they aren't sold in developed nations, noone is going to care if they are pirated. Most of those countries have larger concerns than enforcing American and Japanese IP.

 

[luddite]

As for the accompanying carts, as long as they aren't sold in developed nations, noone is going to care if they are pirated. Most of those countries have larger concerns than enforcing American and Japanese IP.

I'm sure someone will come up with a CF or SD adapter for game pirates in the developed world.

 

[Kallikak]

I've never really liked the 6502, it's like an 8 bit CPU going out of it's way to limit everything to 8 bits.
For a simple accumulator CPU the 6800 more closely matched my model of an elegant 8bit CPU.

But for sheer usefulness I've thought the Z80 managed to squeeze the most out of a 40pin package.

I love the 6502. Cleary it has limitations, but in many respects it is a magnificent chip. The Z80 is quite different, and also grand in its way. There are many things that are easier to do on one than the other, but given the choice I tend to go with the 6502. If only they'd put the extra 65C02 features in from the start...

Ken

 

[luddite]

I've never really liked the 6502, it's like an 8 bit CPU going out of it's way to limit everything to 8 bits.

From my perspective (ie: a dabbler, not a programmer) the 6502 is much easier to wrap my head around than the Z80... though I can see how the Z80 would be less limiting for someone with a bit more know-how.

 

[porter]

I've never really liked the 6502, it's like an 8 bit CPU going out of it's way to limit everything to 8 bits.

From my perspective (ie: a dabbler, not a programmer) the 6502 is much easier to wrap my head around than the Z80....

Until you try and start using the 6502's index registers and see how mad it is!

 

[david__schmidt]

I've never really liked the 6502, it's like an 8 bit CPU going out of it's way to limit everything to 8 bits.

From my perspective (ie: a dabbler, not a programmer) the 6502 is much easier to wrap my head around than the Z80....

Until you try and start using the 6502's index registers and see how mad it is!

You're not viewing zero page properly - it's like having 256 registers. ;-)

 

[Bunsen]

6502 / Z80

@ syntacsugar: as you're already dabbling in 6502 assembly, this looks like an ideal dev platform for you.

@ porter: I was eyeing off a z80 dev board on the 'bay, then I realised I already have one. BBC BASIC with inline Z80 assembler FTW!

I also found this:

SymbOS is a free multitasking operating system for Z80-based 8-bit computer systems. / it is based on a small kernel, which provides pre-emptive and priority oriented multitasking and manages RAM with a size of up to 1024 kB. SymbOS contains a / Graphical user interface, supports hard disks with a capacity of up to 128 GB and can already be booted on an unexpanded Amstrad CPC-6128, a 128K-MSX2 and an Amstrad PCW.
/ the Z80 is capable of running a pre-emptive multitasking operating system. Features such as memory protection, which the Z80 does not support, are not essential in such an OS. For example, AmigaOS does not feature memory protection either. The MP/M OS proved that multitasking on the Z80 CPU was possible /

While the MOS Technology 6502 cannot move the stack pointer, the Z80 can freely relocate it to any position in memory, which is more or less a requirement for pre-emptive multitasking. The existence of an alternative register set accelerates context switching between tasks dramatically. The restriction of Z80 system to a 64 kB address space can be solved with bank switching. / able to access hundreds or thousands of kilobytes of memory.

 

[Bunsen]

I'm sure someone will come up with a CF or SD adapter for game pirates in the developed world.

Playpower's working on one. And not just the developed world - you can buy SD/CF cards from corner stores all over India.

 

[syntacsugar]

yeah it is pretty neat platform i think, only other alternative is to get one of the famiclones which cost about 40-50 bux and get a flash cart and do it that way...same difference though..same price..this one however, is way more retro lol