My New Quadra 800

[jmacz]

Took delivery on a Quadra 800 this week. This thread will document my process of cleaning it up and adding it to my fleet.

The unit was in ok condition upon visual inspection. The outer case was yellowed but still intact. Two of the front drive bay bezels had broken clips and were taped on. The thing had so much dirt inside, it's quite possibly this was stored in an extremely dusty environment. It wasn't just dust but it was fine dirt. There were even some broken leaves inside. First thing was to take it apart and get the motherboard out of there.

The board was actually in very good shape. The original battery was there and had leaked but it was contained to the battery holder luckily. After cleaning the board, I hooked it up to my bench power supply and powered the board. It chimed and got the disk icon. Great! I hooked up a ZuluSCSI Mini to it and it booted immediately without issues. That's great news.

I removed the heat sink, put new thermal paste on, and then reinstalled it.

I then removed the floppy (caked with dirt), the CD-ROM drive (actually looked ok but will need to open it up to check for leaking caps), the power supply... ugh, it had so much dirt inside...



The above was after vacuuming. I then got the outer case off and took a look inside. More dirt. And again after some vacuuming, this is what it still looked like:



Really gross. I will need to take it out tomorrow and use an air compressor to get this dust out... will use really low PSI to ensure I don't shove more dirt into places where it should not go.

But taking a quick peak, it's dirty, but seems ok? I don't see any bulging or leaking caps. This is Delta made unit and I've heard those have lasted longer than the Astec or GE ones (well, at least this was the case in my IIci's). I will clean up the PSU and if it works, I'm going to leave it alone for now. There are some caps in locations that I cannot get to without taking all three vertical boards off the main board, and there are a lot of connections so I don't want to deal with it.

The PSU fan measures 120mm x 120mm x 38mm. It's a 12V. I know folks tend to keep the fans. I just want it quieter. I'm not going to tax the unit. So I will replace it if I can.

That's all for now. The tasks I intend for this Quadra 800:

• Recap the CD-ROM drive.
• Check if the floppy drive works and clean / lube it, replace the eject gear.
• Fix the front drive bay bezels (I've already done this - designed and 3D printed new clips/hinges for it).
• Install a 640MB magento optical drive to make it easier to share files with my IIfx.
• ZuluSCSI for the main disk.
• New rear slot cover to allow ZuluSCSI card access.
• Needs new feet.
• Clean up the exterior.

 

[joshc]

Good luck with this project, these are nice machines (except for the case).

it's dirty, but seems ok? I don't see any bulging or leaking caps.

Be careful with this sort of thinking. While visible bulging/leaking caps is a good thing to look out for, its not the only sign of a capacitor that has reached the end of its life. They can also just dry out - so you wouldn't see any bulging or leak. Also, these tend to leak from underneath, not from the top - that was a symptom of caps that were manufactured during the capacitor plague period (~1999-2007). This was a bit before then.

Also, bear in mind a few other things: these PSUs are known to die, they are at that age where they're well past any sort of design life, and it looks like this one had a hard life judging by the amount of thick dust build up. Similar PSUs I've had have always died shortly after I've started using them again.

At the very least, while you've got it open, I would be replacing the caps on the low voltage side of the PSU - looks like most of them are brown Nichicons from what I can tell.

I know folks tend to keep the fans. I just want it quieter. I'm not going to tax the unit.

Bear in mind the PSU fan in these is also the system fan. That's the only thing pulling air through the case. So it's cooling your NuBus cards, drives and CPU as well. OK - the Quadra 800 is not going to be generating tons of heat, but don't go for a very very quiet/low cfm fan just because its silent.

Try oiling the bearing of the stock fan first. It could significantly reduce the noise.

 

[lobust]

FWIW, I have five 800/8100 PSUs, and all of them are dead. Combination of Delta and Magnetek. I don't think any of them are Astec.

They seem to be exceptionally/unusually fragile, but maybe it's just me. Four of them worked when I bought them and only one of them lasted for more than a few hours of use.

The fifth was the original in my 800, and it was completely ruined when I got the machine - the machine had been stored in someone's garage and had had paint thinners or something similar spilled on it. I did the get the logic board working after a good amount of work, but the metal parts of the case and every component in the PSU was corroded terribly. The plastics were somehow in remarkably good condition so I transplanted the metal parts from a scrapped 8500 to make the machine whole.

 

[zigzagjoe]

It's not uncommon to have caps of that age that "seem fine" then rapidly deteriorate when returned to use, sometimes with catastrophic results. Recap while you're ahead, and it'll probably last you a good long time.

Also, seconding joshc, I wouldn't swap the fan except for a 1:1 OEM-equivalent.

 

[jmacz]

FWIW, I have five 800/8100 PSUs, and all of them are dead. Combination of Delta and Magnetek. I don't think any of them are Astec.

Hmm, ok.

leak. Also, these tend to leak from underneath, not from the top - that was a symptom of caps that were manufactured during the capacitor plague period (

Yup, I usually look for the areas under the caps, and these caps are lifted and look dry. That doesn’t always tell the full story of course and you’re right, all that dust means it’s probably well used.

don't go for a very very quiet/low cfm fan just because its silent.

Yeah, wasn’t going for a slow speed one, but rather one with new bearings, blade design, etc that is quieter. Unfortunately don’t have a way to measure CFM (outside of just eyeballing it using a piece of paper) but I get your point.

Try oiling the bearing of the stock fan first. It could significantly reduce the noise.

With all that dust, if the implication is that the PSU was well used, the bearing would be worn and probably have dust that entered it, given all that dust in the picture, I would be surprised if the bearing was not compromised.

Also, seconding joshc, I wouldn't swap the fan except for a 1:1 OEM-equivalent.

Will try looking at the model number to see if a replacement is available. Otherwise, might pick up a couple to see which one gives an equivalent movement of air. Again, I don’t have a way to measure it but could eyeball it using the crude paper method.

 

[zigzagjoe]

Hmm, ok.



Yup, I usually look for the areas under the caps, and these caps are lifted and look dry. That doesn’t always tell the full story of course and you’re right, all that dust means it’s probably well used.



Yeah, wasn’t going for a slow speed one, but rather one with new bearings, blade design, etc that is quieter. Unfortunately don’t have a way to measure CFM (outside of just eyeballing it using a piece of paper) but I get your point.



With all that dust, of the implication is that the PSU was well used, the bearing would be worn and probably have dust that entered it, given all that dust in the picture, I would be surprised if the bearing was not compromised.



Will try looking at the model number to see if a replacement is available. Otherwise, might pick up a couple to see which one gives an equivalent movement of air. Again, I don’t have a way to measure it but could eyeball it using the crude paper method.

I've had caps that looked fine start leaking with vigor when returning them to use. It's also possible for them to dry out / or have the electrolyte disappear leak without it being obvious.

What I've done is use a plastic trash bag and measure how long it takes to fill. This gives a reasonable measurement for general case usage, watch out that you have to wait for the fan to come up to speed (hold the bag closed) before beginning the measurement.

An approach I took with my SE/30 was to look for a later fan of the same series (but a later design). This got me a fan with more airflow and pressure at the same RPM/noise, but you might be able to drop down from medium-speed to low-speed or something similar as long as the specs are similar. Sanyo Denki 109R0612F415 for the record - available in bulk for $4 new old stock.

Though, the SE / SE/30 fan is a more extreme case as compared to the Quadra - as I understand it commodity brushless fans were a newer development in the late 80s, so the one in the SE/30 has a huge hub which shrunk notably in the later one I replaced it with. More blade area would be primarily responsible for the improved peformance. I would expect less improvement for newer fans seeing as there haven't been revolutionary changes in basic fan design & performance for quite some time.

 

[jmacz]

Interesting idea with the trash bag.

The option I was looking at wasn’t cheap: it’s a newer Noctua 120mm fan, the NF-A12x25, 2000rpm, 102,1m^3/h extraction rating.

 

[jmacz]

I would expect less improvement for newer fans seeing as there haven't been revolutionary changes in basic fan design & performance for quite some time.

I think the type of noise is important, well at least to me, so it’s not just the volume. For example, for my drone, I replaced the propellers, not for the slight increase in flight time but the type of noise it generated. It wasn’t any quieter, just different.

I have been ok with the noise from the Noctua fans I have been using. They have mostly been in the $15 range so not that expensive. But this particular one is double that price, so certainly not cheap, almost 10x the bulk price of that Sanyo.

 

[zigzagjoe]

I think the type of noise is important, well at least to me, so it’s not just the volume. For example, for my drone, I replaced the propellers, not for the slight increase in flight time but the type of noise it generated. It wasn’t any quieter, just different.

I have been ok with the noise from the Noctua fans I have been using. They have mostly been in the $15 range so not that expensive. But this particular one is double that price, so certainly not cheap, almost 10x the bulk price of that Sanyo.

Yeah, that is a good point and I agree with it. Awareness of the tonality is relatively new as OEM fan designs are mainly concerned about meeting specs.

IMO: The main issue is when folks replace an old 3000 RPM fan with the same size at 1500 RPM - 30 years or so of incremental progress doesn't come close to making up that gap. As a crude criteria to select fans by, as long as the new fan RPM is similar to the old fan, it can be expected to match or exceed the old fan's specs.

 

[jmacz]

Cool. Yeah, that NF-A12x25 seems to move a lot of air on paper. When I get home from work, I will need to see if I can get specs on the stock fan and compare. $32 for a fan is expensive, but if it generates the type of noise like my other previous Noctua’s, and is close enough or meets the stock specs, it’s worth it to me. I am a bit sensitive to certain types of noise. Coil whine (although again a different type of noise) for example drives me nuts.

 

[bigmessowires]

Ouch, that PSU looks like it was exhumed from an ancient burial site. And dried leaves? Good luck with the rebuild.

 

[jmacz]

The stock PSU fan:

Delta WFB1212LE

• 12V
• RPM: 1950
• Noise: 34.5dB
• "Max Air Flow": 84.7 CFM or 143.9 M^3/H
• Pressure: 4.00mm H2O
• Cost: can still find them in China for around $15 shipped, a little bit more in the US

The one I was looking at Noctua NF-A12x25

• 12V
• RPM: 2000
• Noise: 22.6dB
• "Air Flow": 60.1 CFM or 102.1 M^3/H
• Pressure: 2.34mm H2O
• Cost: $32 shipped

There's a ~30% difference in air flow (stock being higher) with a significant difference in noise, although 34.5dB isn't that bad. I think the difference may the stock fan is 38mm thick whereas the Noctua is only 25mm, which means the blades are bigger in the stock unit.

I guess I will try and clean up / re-oil the stock fan and see how bad it is, and then decide.

 

[jmacz]

The Quadra 800s also had another part on some machines, the Sanyo Sans Ace 109R1212M1021 which provided 78 CFM at 32 dB.

 

[MacUp72]

wow that machine has seen better days, I remember we had one of thsoe in our graphics agency.
Good luck with the restauration, I really would recommend taking it all apart, cleaning it thoroughly, recap everything before usage.
.. like Bruce on YT, it will be worth it.

The sticky brown dust looks like regular usage dust but this has accumulated through many many years.
Fans, as others said it is safe to use the OEM fan, but a new one, wont cost much. Maybe it is possible to replace it with the Nocua one AND an additional even bigger, slower one in the case, if theres any space for it? The case design is very special though..

 

[jmacz]

I cleaned the stock fan and re-lubed it, and then tested it using a bench supply. The fan does work, and is pretty strong, but boy is it loud. Not vacuum loud, but similar to having a 12" desk fan turned on sitting on your desk and hearing the fan blades. There does seem to be some particles inside the bearings. You can hear a feint grinding-like noise when it's rotating. A little annoying.

 

[Phipli]

I cleaned the stock fan and re-lubed it, and then tested it using a bench supply. The fan does work, and is pretty strong, but boy is it loud. Not vacuum loud, but similar to having a 12" desk fan turned on sitting on your desk and hearing the fan blades. There does seem to be some particles inside the bearings. You can hear a feint grinding-like noise when it's rotating. A little annoying.

Run it for an hour oriented so that the oil can run down into the bearing.

 

[jmacz]

Didn’t change much after an hour. I think it might be rattling a bit.

 

[joshc]

Could try some rubber grommets for the screws? Is it rattling on the chassis? If it is properly knackered then a new fan might be the way to go, the one you found isn't a terrible replacement from what I can tell.

 

[jmacz]

Could try some rubber grommets for the screws? Is it rattling on the chassis?

This is with the fan outside, actually hear it even when I am holding it.

the one you found isn't a terrible replacement from what I can tell.

The noctua? About 25% less cfm than the Sanyo, curious if that’s close enough or not.

 

[jmacz]

Caps finally arrived. Recapped the power supply and the CD-ROM drive. Boy, the PSU was a pain in the butt, but it's done and clean from all that dust.. nasty.



The only two caps I did not replace are the two large 820uF 200V ones (black ones in the lower left corner). They looked clean underneath. Mouser/Newark don't carry them and the ones I saw online were seriously expensive. I think these bigger cans last longer so keeping my fingers crossed on them.

As for the CD-ROM drive, as expected almost all the capacitors had leaked. But luckily it did not spread out.



The picture above was taken after removing the old caps. Two of the pads (not in the picture above) were in bad shape so had to fix those.

Surgery was a success and both the PSU and CD-ROM are working fine. Also cleaned the floppy drive, regreased/lubed it, and replaced the eject gear. Floppy drive is also working fine now.

The system is basically done but I'm waiting for a 640MB magneto optical drive to arrive. I will need to make a custom front bezel for it.